Flying, its back tomorrow, are you Happy?

[WowIsDead64]

Really? I have already DONE that in this thread. But since you tend to gloss over arguments that don't fit your narrative, I'll park it here.

You keep pretending, that this arguments are objective? I've already said, that this arguments rely on personal prejudiced opinion.

Experience the content

Nobody asks to remove it.

Meet and Greet

Subjective. Only needed for so called "socializers". Majority of players don't need this feeling of "sandbox at kindergarten", "city at rush hour" - they prefer small communities, such as guilds and friends. Some players, including me, even hate forced socialization.

Consumption Distribution

Two words: LAZY DESIGN. Wow isn't F2P game - we buy it and we pay sub fee for it. Having not enough resources - isn't valid excuse for making half-assed content.

Adventure and Journey

Subjective things. Not all players are RPers. Yeah, they can enjoy adventure and journey for may be a week, but then majority of players focus on different things - they focus on achieving their own goals, like PVPing, collecting gear, doing achievements, etc. Forcing something on them - taking their enjoyment away.

The Reality of Fantasy

Subjective things again. For some players flying - is core part of their fantasy and immersion.

Conclusion:
You seem to be not adult enough or simply selfish. You don't understand simple thing - that different players enjoy game differently. You still have this "I enjoy this game this way and can't even understand, how other players can enjoy it some other way" misconception. Or may be some selfish "I'm RPer and majority of game's content should be about RPing, cuz game should be designed personally for me". You should learn not to be selfish.

For example back in Cata I was 100% sure, that if I hated hard dungeons, that all players should have hated them too and therefore design change toward harder dungeon -> was direct way to losing subs. Now I realize, that I was wrong. And in case of 5ppls we have normals, heroics, mythics, mythic+. In case of raids we have LFR, flexes, heroics and mythics. But in case of outdoor content we had different designs in the past, such as questing for RPers, Tol'Barad for PVPers/competitive players, dailies for achievers, world bosses for socializers...but now have ONE SINGLE FORCED DESIGN. And this is just wrong. This is degradation.

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blah blah blah blah

Great argument. Check and mate, I guess?

[Nazaraki]

People whine too much, be happy of what is in the game, and if you dont like it you can simply turn off your subscription, its as simple as that.

[SirCowdog]

i keep seeing this "blizzard fucking lying to us" what exactly are they lying about with flying? since day 1 they said flying would be obtainable about half way through the expansion, and well i would say now is even less then half ,so yeah i guess they "lied"

but thats like saying "hey im gunna give you 100$" then they give you 150$

More like they say they'll give you $100 then slowly gives you $20 worth of used cans for recycling every month, but you have to come pick it up on Blizzard's schedule.

[rda]

Consumption Distribution

Two words: LAZY DESIGN. Wow isn't F2P game - we buy it and we pay sub fee for it. Having not enough resources - isn't valid excuse for making half-assed content.

I have to say, I laughed at the original "argument" of Flying Monkey for this item. Which was, basically: "disabling flying allows the devs to slow people down". We are saying the same thing as a conviction for disabling flying, but Flying Monkey with his alternative thinking methods is arguing this is a point *for* disabling flying, not against (!).

For others reading this, I kid you not, that's what he is saying, here is an exact quote:

"As with any Monthly product, the idea is the have the product take as long as possible to consume, compared to the amount of time available to consume it. This is how MMOs have made money since the dawn of the genre. Sell a product, make it time consuming by any means necessary, and then expand the product every few months to encourage continued subscriptions. The longer the sub, the more money made, and the more content available to the consumers. There are times, as with any set of content, there are long bouts without updates while developers work on new content coming with the next large patch or expansion."

Apparently, artificially slowing people down is a good thing and we should be thankful that Blizzard are doing that. I suppose if Blizzard raised the sub cost for no reason the argument from Flying Monkey would be that more money to the developers means a healthier product, so this is a good change and we should all celebrate it.

That's the level of argument behind that post that was so proudly paraded for pages as some sort of a great summary of why flying has no place in the game. Gee, it seems formatting your text and arranging it into paragraphs is not enough. The text also has to, well, how should I put it, not be stupid BS. Who'd have thought.

[Krieleros]

The way I think about flying is how I view commuting to work. When I first started working downtown, I used to take a bus to the train and have to transfer trains then walk or bus 3/4 of a mile. I never thought it was that inconvenient. It was faster and less rage inducing than driving. Then I got married and bought a house near a more efficient train. I could walk there and take one train that dropped me off near the office. It saved time and was less of a hassle. When we bought a new house, proximity to my train was a major factor in making the decision between 2 houses we were looking at. Would I deal with my old way of commuting if I had to? Sure. Would I prefer it? No.

In vanilla and pre-epic flying mount BC didn't feel like a hassle to travel (especially after playing EQ for years), but I wouldn't want to be shackled to the ground any longer. I have kids now and play on a PvP server. If they need my attention, I can't just AFK at a flight point because I'll probably see a grey screen when I come back. Now, I can shoot straight up in the air on a mount to help them out with homework or just bio/grab a drink. Most of the time on the ground, I'm in tank spec to not get dismounted and just running through mobs anyways. I'm geared, so it's not like being on the ground is adding any sense of danger or adding to immersion. It just makes things more inconvenient.

I can explore when I want to and I can knock out an emissary if I log on 10 minutes before raid invites go out. I don't see anything wrong with saving a few minutes. Also, some of the views from the air are great in this game.

[-Joker-]

Nobody asks to remove it.

You are delusional if you think Blizz needs to ask us before they do something with their intellectual property.

Some players, including me, even hate forced socialization.

Obviously you are playing the wrong game. A Massive Mutli-Player Online Role Playing Game, by definition alone, GUARANTEES interaction.

Two words: LAZY DESIGN. Wow isn't F2P game - we buy it and we pay sub fee for it. Having not enough resources - isn't valid excuse for making half-assed content.

You know what I do when I believe a game is poorly designed? I act like an adult and don't play it. I don't get emotional and constantly berate the group that made it.

Subjective things. Not all players are RPers. Yeah, they can enjoy adventure and journey for may be a week, but then majority of players focus on different things - they focus on achieving their own goals, like PVPing, collecting gear, doing achievements, etc. Forcing something on them - taking their enjoyment away.

It is, again, by definition, a ROLE PLAYING GAME. You are your hero. You are the adventurer. Whether that is a solo adventure Conan style, or a fellowship like Frodo had. But again, if I hated adventuring, I suppose I would find a different game to play, rather than staying and complaining.

Subjective things again. For some players flying - is core part of their fantasy and immersion.

That's perfectly fine. But a dozen other similarly themed MMOs do not have flight, and for this purpose, flight is not used as a level of judgement. Comparing apples to oranges is hardly the way to prove the worth of an MMO.


In Conclusion: You are correct. I am an adult. I will play a game I enjoy and walk away from those I dislike. I wish more people took that stance. There'd be far less whining in the world.

[Swalload]

Makes no difference whatsoever, I had my fun of discovering the zones on land the first time so it's good that we don't start with flying. But WQs are simply not fun anymore, invasions are WQ, broken shore is just more WQ as well, there's basically no world pvp on my server, nothing left to randomly discover.

My play session are like this : log on, rush a few WQ as fast as possible before I start wondering why I'm even doing this crap, then go raid or M+, both of which is less annoying with a flying mount to get to, and both of which are done on foot in instanced content anyways.

The world content where flying is used is mostly boring and mandatory for rep or legendary bullshitting, so flying only comes to help ease the pain of doing content we're forced to do.

If I come out as someone who's getting increasingly bored with the game, well, yeah, that's right, not playing that much anymore, mostly cuz I have friends I still have fun with, so flying is a welcome change.

[WowIsDead64]

You are delusional if you think Blizz needs to ask us before they do something with their intellectual property.

Obviously you are playing the wrong game. A Massive Mutli-Player Online Role Playing Game, by definition alone, GUARANTEES interaction.

You know what I do when I believe a game is poorly designed? I act like an adult and don't play it. I don't get emotional and constantly berate the group that made it.

It is, again, by definition, a ROLE PLAYING GAME. You are your hero. You are the adventurer. Whether that is a solo adventure Conan style, or a fellowship like Frodo had. But again, if I hated adventuring, I suppose I would find a different game to play, rather than staying and complaining.

That's perfectly fine. But a dozen other similarly themed MMOs do not have flight, and for this purpose, flight is not used as a level of judgement. Comparing apples to oranges is hardly the way to prove the worth of an MMO.

In Conclusion: You are correct. I am an adult. I will play a game I enjoy and walk away from those I dislike. I wish more people took that stance. There'd be far less whining in the world.

There are two types of trolls - fat trolls and thin trolls. While Jaylock is obviously fat troll - this guy it thin one. This guy at least tries to hide behind some arguments, that pretend to be valid. He uses large amount of fallacies - they aren't so obvious though. Now he use argument from ignorance fallacy. Or how this thing called, when guy invents his own terms and hopes, that nobody will be able to prove, that they're BS?

Please, provide some proofs, that MMOs should have forced socialization/interaction as core part of game. As I know, MMOs are about POTENTIAL ability to interact with many players (aka Many Men Online [Role Playing Girls]), but you shouldn't confuse MMOs with social games, where socialization/interaction - is core part of game and therefore have to be forced. MMO - is wider class of games, that can include various other genres. Also give us some proves, that term RPG includes "Conan/Frodo-style adventure". By definition term RPG only means, that you fulfill role of your character. And it's up to you to build your character and define his role. It's not arcade, where developers force some predefined scenario on you and give you some predefined character. All, developers actually do - provide some environment to materialize story, your imagination creates. If game world allows flying and your character is defined as character, who prefers flying - he should be able to fly. As simple, as that.

[rda]

In Conclusion: You are correct. I am an adult. I will play a game I enjoy and walk away from those I dislike. I wish more people took that stance. There'd be far less whining in the world.

The conclusion is different - you are again reduced to just "if you don't like it, quit, [else you aren't an adult]" and nothing else. You can write some text and format it, but the moment someone actually reads that text and cares to reply, it is apparent that none of the points in it stand.

Some are just irrelevant, like: (you) "experience the content, please experience it, Blizzard want you to experience it at least once from the ground because that's how they design it" - (the reaction) "sure, we will, your point was? nobody asks to remove content" - (you) "you are delusional if you think that Blizzard would listen to you even if you asked to remove content" --- what? what was your point, buddy? right, you had none and continue to have none.

Some are downright ridiculous, like: (you) "no flying is slowing people down, this is good because people will stay subbed for longer and pay Blizzard more money" - (the reaction) "WHAT??! are you even reading the tripe you are writing? what you wrote is a non-starter"

So in the end you are reduced to the utterly uninteresting "if you don't like it, leave". Thanks for the advice. An advice back: if you don't like it, don't post.

[CheeseSandwich]

Now that flying may actually be back tomorrow for some people after the relaxing of PF2 requirements, this thread title is way more appropriate.

IMO though, that relaxing is good news for pro flyers. It may suggest a realization that 6 months of sitting on PF1 may be several grounded proto-drakes to far.

[RobertoCarlos]

Now that flying may actually be back tomorrow for some people after the relaxing of PF2 requirements, this thread title is way more appropriate.

IMO though, that relaxing is good news for pro flyers. It may suggest a realization that 6 months of sitting on PF1 may be several grounded proto-drakes to far.

Nah it was just the qq about invasion timing an people at work missing them that made blizzard back pedal. The flying gate is now a feature of wow sadly.

[Aeula]

I'm 4/12k honoured with legionfall, yet I hear people blabbering about getting flight in the next few days. Did they get lucky with order hall missions or something? Or am I missing something here. I do every world quest available, even the pet battle one.

I hate when things as important as flying are gated like this.

[Scarletpiston]

I was revered a few days ago ,from just grinding the chest, flying feels good.
Good luck doing it with chest now, the few of us that are flying around are grabbing them all.

[Deleted]

People is already getting the flying ahievement if they farmed enough resources from chest. Two people on my guild got it (EU).

[Appelgren]

I havent even bothered with the first part. I hate being forced to do content i dont enjoy.
I guess ill stick to my ground mount the rest of the 2 weeks i have left of gametime

[SirCowdog]

People is already getting the flying ahievement if they farmed enough resources from chest. Two people on my guild got it (EU).

I was revered a few days ago ,from just grinding the chest, flying feels good.
Good luck doing it with chest now, the few of us that are flying around are grabbing them all.

Can you guys elaborate and provide some details on how these people got the rep so quickly? There are quite a few people who have already let their sub lapse, and don't actually know the details of what you're referring to.

[Teri]

Can you guys elaborate and provide some details on how these people got the rep so quickly? There are quite a few people who have already let their sub lapse, and don't actually know the details of what you're referring to.

Chests give like 2-4 legion resources, 100 resources = 150 rep.

Also people got lucky with class halls giving them lots of legionfall missions (mind you I don't seem so lucky only seen 1 mission for 1 token...)

[Saverem]

General question for the forums. Flying is back tomorrow. Are you happy its back?

Personally i'm really unhappy Blizzard decided to put it back into the game. I'll get it just to keep up with everyone else so i'm not at a disadvantage though.

How about you?

People getting Revered tomorrow? WTF? I'm sitting here at 4k/12k and have done most of the Broken Shore WQs.

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Chests give like 2-4 legion resources, 100 resources = 150 rep.

Also people got lucky with class halls giving them lots of legionfall missions (mind you I don't seem so lucky only seen 1 mission for 1 token...)

Actually it's 165 rep for this week. If you're not making use of the Darkmoon Faire buff, you doing it wrong.

[SirCowdog]

Chests give like 2-4 legion resources, 100 resources = 150 rep.

Also people got lucky with class halls giving them lots of legionfall missions (mind you I don't seem so lucky only seen 1 mission for 1 token...)

So RNG strikes again. I shouldn't be surprised. And other creative ways to get rep quickly? From the other thread I understand that completing invasions doesn't give rep past the initial quest.

[-Joker-]

There are two types of trolls - fat trolls and thin trolls. While Jaylock is obviously fat troll - this guy it thin one. This guy at least tries to hide behind some arguments, that pretend to be valid. He uses large amount of fallacies - they aren't so obvious though. Now he use argument from ignorance fallacy. Or how this thing called, when guy invents his own terms and hopes, that nobody will be able to prove, that they're BS?

Please, provide some proofs, that MMOs should have forced socialization/interaction as core part of game. As I know, MMOs are about POTENTIAL ability to interact with many players (aka Many Men Online [Role Playing Girls]), but you shouldn't confuse MMOs with social games, where socialization/interaction - is core part of game and therefore have to be forced. MMO - is wider class of games, that can include various other genres. Also give us some proves, that term RPG includes "Conan/Frodo-style adventure". By definition term RPG only means, that you fulfill role of your character. And it's up to you to build your character and define his role. It's not arcade, where developers force some predefined scenario on you and give you some predefined character. All, developers actually do - provide some environment to materialize story, your imagination creates. If game world allows flying and your character is defined as character, who prefers flying - he should be able to fly. As simple, as that.

So anyone who disagrees with you and offers their own opinion... is a troll. We're done here. Think I'll go finish my Pathfinder so I can have flight on Broken Isles. Not that I need it to have fun, but enjoy using it when it is available.

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The conclusion is different - you are again reduced to just "if you don't like it, quit, [else you aren't an adult]" and nothing else. You can write some text and format it, but the moment someone actually reads that text and cares to reply, it is apparent that none of the points in it stand.

Some are just irrelevant, like: (you) "experience the content, please experience it, Blizzard want you to experience it at least once from the ground because that's how they design it" - (the reaction) "sure, we will, your point was? nobody asks to remove content" - (you) "you are delusional if you think that Blizzard would listen to you even if you asked to remove content" --- what? what was your point, buddy? right, you had none and continue to have none.

Some are downright ridiculous, like: (you) "no flying is slowing people down, this is good because people will stay subbed for longer and pay Blizzard more money" - (the reaction) "WHAT??! are you even reading the tripe you are writing? what you wrote is a non-starter"

So in the end you are reduced to the utterly uninteresting "if you don't like it, leave". Thanks for the advice. An advice back: if you don't like it, don't post.

I do like it, which is why I do post. When personal enjoyment is ruined, most people will simply move on to something they enjoy. The "if you don't like it, leave" simplification is just that. You hate the game without flight. You hate it cause it is too grindy. You hate it because you have to use jumping puzzles. You hate it because you have to interact with other human beings. Just seems like this is not the type of game for some people. If I hated WoW and the Devs this much, I would have been gone a long time ago. But as someone who loves flight, but doesn't require it to play... I don't hate this game, and not you, or anyone else is going to make me feel weird about agreeing with Blizzard. It's their game, and I am fine with it as it stands. There are others who agree.