Impressed With Legion

[SirCowdog]

Legion seems like the expansion that takes two steps forward, and one step back. There's a lot of good things going on, like M+, the AP/AK dynamic, and world quests. But the over-use of RNG and gating is killing the good that those mechanics are bringing to the table. The lack of flying up til now is also a major black mark against the expansion, although that could theoretically change if content in 7.3 and onward uses flight instead of trying to deny that it exists.

Demon Hunters are...a mixed bag. I feel like they're only there as fanservice. Mechanically speaking I think the game would have been better off with another mail-wearing class with three full talent specs. Spellbreaker, Warden, or possibly Engineer/Tinker would have all worked decently well. Warden would have especially fit the expansion thematically. DH's only getting two specs is LOLtastic. Just shows there wasn't enough theme or lore to justify them in the first place. They even had to steal Metamorphosis from warlocks.

I love the idea of world quests, although there should be more variety, and there should be more degrees of world scaling for them, similar to M+ or Diablo 3's torment levels. The PVP balancing and separation from PVE was something that should have happened years ago, so that's a welcome change.

Crafting in the expansion has been pretty damn good, although I could wish there were more cutting-edge recopies for higher iLVL gear.

Legendaries, IMO, are a complete and utter failure of implementation. They should have been used to add or modify talents or class abilities. Lateral options instead of being such BiS items where you suffer a massive performance failure if you don't get blessed by the RNG with the right one. I would have preferred having them obtained through class-specific quests with high-level difficulty, as we're seeing now with the solo challenges. That way at least if they're going to be BiS, everyone who can perform at a high-enough level to need them would be challenged to get it, proving that they deserve it. Getting a legendary from kicking squirrels every day is just fucking stupid.

Story/Lore wise I think things are finally getting interesting. I've always wondered what the Legion was doing while we were screwing around in panda land and back-to-the-future alternate timeline garbage. Also loving that we've got an expansion that isn't orc-centric for once.

All in all I feel like Legion is kind of a wash. It's not terrible, but it's not great either. I'd put it above WoD and Vanilla, but below everything else.

[rda]

We are in the first major patch of Legion. So lets compare Legion to those expansions you mentioned up to their first major patch.

You started by making rough lists of big things for each expansion, fine, ok, but then we came to Legion and you started including details that are much smaller. WTF is "Entire Suramar Quest Line" doing there? List that under quests. Have you seen "Legion Assaults"? If you are listing things that small, you should list a hundred more items for each expansion, including for Legion. Where's Isle of Giants, for example? Eh? That provided more gameplay than "Legion Assaults". You are missing tons of big things - professions (WotLK / MoP added new ones), big subsystems like vehicles and achievements (yeah, show me what Legion added of that scale), Wintergrasp / Tol Barad, etc, etc, etc. You are including "Solo Challenges" for Legion but not including Proving Grounds for MoP. You are including "Pet Battles" for Legion and MoP, but the amount of content for that added in these two expansions is completely incomparable, MoP added the entire subsystem with multiple hundreds of pets and then built on it heavily, Legion added like 10-15% of MoP added and that's very charitable. Your lists are just complete crap, you can't compare based on them. Or, rather, you can, and that will produce idiotic results that have nothing to do with reality.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Yup, this expansion keeps me wanting to play for much longer than any other. There is a double-edge to the gear upgrades and frequent patches, but they are overwhelmingly positive to me, outside of the Legendary department. Once I came to terms I'd likely never have the Legendaries I want when I want them, I've been able to enjoy the expansion much much more!
Also, a LOT of people are using "RNG" poorly here. The ONLY real RNG system in the game is the Legendaries. Everything else that operates on a roll is a bonus. You get exactly what you expected most of the time, but every once in a while, you get lucky and get something WAY better than what you should have gotten.

- - - Updated - - -

Regardless, every single person should be voting "impressed." They added some absolutely spectacular things to the game in such a high volume that can ONLY be rivaled by Mists. You can not say this expansion hasn't been impressive. There are downsides, but compared to almost every other expansion this has been impressive, even if you look at what's been added only.

If you aren't impressed by Legion then you simply don't enjoy the game or have interest in its future.

[Incarnia]

I picked "other" because I'm neither impressed nor not impressed with it, I consider it to be an ok expansion. Where the shitty Legendary system and insane item level inflation +extreme RNG element to gear are some of it's major flaws. There's more ofc, but those things stands out to me the most at the moment.

Personally - so far - I'd rank Legion on fourth place among all the expansions.

[Count Zero]

I feel like if they had been less ... er, experimental ? I guess. But that if they'd been less experimental that this would easily be the best xpac. Like instead of the current legendary system they'd gone with one of the previous legendary iterations. Or current one with vastly-increased droprate.

And hadn't mixed up utility and throughput relics.

And if they'd made AP apply to all your artifacts. I know there have been a ton of people who aren't mythic raiders and who didn't have the time to spam mythic+, who for quite some time into the xpac felt like they were "stuck" with one spec because they had to put all their AP into it to keep up. Up until the AP refund I personally felt like I'd picked the "wrong" spec this xpac, and there should never be that feeling.

[Twilight Cultist]

You started by making rough lists of big things for each expansion, fine, ok, but then we came to Legion and you started including details that are much smaller. WTF is "Entire Suramar Quest Line" doing there? List that under quests. Have you seen "Legion Assaults"? If you are listing things that small, you should list a hundred more items for each expansion, including for Legion. Where's Isle of Giants, for example? Eh? That provided more gameplay than "Legion Assaults". You are missing tons of big things - professions (WotLK / MoP added new ones), big subsystems like vehicles and achievements (yeah, show me what Legion added of that scale), Wintergrasp / Tol Barad, etc, etc, etc. You are including "Solo Challenges" for Legion but not including Proving Grounds for MoP. You are including "Pet Battles" for Legion and MoP, but the amount of content for that added in these two expansions is completely incomparable, MoP added the entire subsystem with multiple hundreds of pets and then built on it heavily, Legion added like 10-15% of MoP added and that's very charitable. Your lists are just complete crap, you can't compare based on them. Or, rather, you can, and that will produce idiotic results that have nothing to do with reality.

I specifically said (multiple times) in that post to tell me if I missed anything.

Example:

Please tell me if i'm missing anything, but I believe that was it.

It wasn't me manipulating the data. Some of these expansions are from many years ago, of course my memory would be hazy on the smaller stuff for older expansions.

Also, I included the Suramar quest chain because it isn't like typical wow quests. It is significantly more scripted and it is almost fully voiced. On top of that, the quest are less of collecting 10 boar asses and more story driven. I can't remember any other expansion having something on this level, so I felt it was appropriate to include it in a conversation of the amount of content each expansion had.

[Scottyjscizzle]

I loved it at launch, and its still very good. That said I think Blizzard is struggling to balance quality and quantity. I like that there is plenty to do, but little of it really feels like its worth a damn. Also the more they timegate, the less likely I am to remained subbed.

[Arenis]

I like the quantity of things to do; there's always something.
I also like the increased amount of content for people that don't like raiding.

But, I don't really have the feeling I'm playing World of Warcraft. The entire theme, mostly aesthetic I guess, feels like some other MMO than WoW. Something generic. I'm really not sure what it is and can't pinpoint the exact cause, it's just a gut feeling.

[Rogalicus]

snip

So you ignored 5.1 and 7.1, but listed 6.1 as a major patch. Nice argumentation.

[TheVaryag]

Compared to more recent expansions, I would have to say Legion has been a breath of fresh air for me. I wasn't fond of MoP or WoD, so I can appreciate what was achieved in this expansion. It still doesn't surpass TBC (where I began my playtime on Azeroth in 07) or Wrath (where I spent most of my time Raiding current content).

How about you? Overall, and generally speaking in broadstrokes, are you impressed, not so much, or still indifferent?

I completely hate It, even WoD Is second worst expansion In my eyes, and Legion Is the worst now. Too much gating, too little story and most of It is there just for fan service reasons, the expansion reeks of "Hey, we're giving you all of this stuff cause you wanted It for 10+ years but we didn't do It before, but we are now cause our subs are so low and we want you to still play!"

Overall, not Impressed at all. It's stil nowhere as good as TBC or Wrath, hell It's worse than Vanilla. My current expansions go as follows from best to worse:

TBC - Wrath - Vanilla - MoP - Cata - WoD - Legion

Legion Is trying to hog on old glory days, namely TBC of course visually and "Grind" like most of all, even though the grinding In Legion Is not the same we had In TBC, not by any stretch of the imagination. And It's another "Hey, here's a land torn assunder by demons... more fel fire, even more green fel fire, hey here's broken shore, guess what? More green felfire!" It's like... go away. Half way through the expansion and It's so bad to see so many depressing zones.

Even TBC gave us that pause of seeing good zones. Quel'danas was a nice zone to be In, beautiful, despite the minor demonic presence outside on the isles. So was Zul'aman.

They themselves admited TBC taught them that If they keep putting us Into depressing warzones all the time, we won't want to go there and do stuff, and they're right... but they're not following their own advice with Broken Shores for now. And dont' give me 7.1 as an example, Karazhan was surely depressing and Trials of Valor Is the same area we've been to a million times through the dungeon finder. And Helya's hellheim was also depression.

[Fynzie]

I'm impressed how many retarded design decisions made it into the game, what should I vote ?

[-Joker-]

I completely hate It

Overall, not Impressed at all. It's stil nowhere as good as TBC or Wrath, hell It's worse than Vanilla. My current expansions go as follows from best to worse:

TBC - Wrath - Vanilla - MoP - Cata - WoD - Legion

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but putting WoD above Legion in ranking just seems a bit suspect. Then again, you could love orcs and play mostly orcs which could help explain why the worst expac in Blizz's history made it above Legion... and expac that at least had an exciting pre-launch event spread over Azeroth.

[Twilight Cultist]

So you ignored 5.1 and 7.1, but listed 6.1 as a major patch. Nice argumentation.

I didn't ignore 5.1, that was Brawler's Guild and the PvP daily area (I forget the name). I didn't include the latter because it became completely irrelevant with the isle of thunder, so I forgot it. 7.1 was Karazhan and ToV, which I also included.

WoD patch cycle was hard to compare to other expansions because 6.2 was both the first and final major patch of WoD. So I just went with 6.1 since it still included a raid (BRF).

[SirCowdog]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but putting WoD above Legion in ranking just seems a bit suspect. Then again, you could love orcs and play mostly orcs which could help explain why the worst expac in Blizz's history made it above Legion... and expac that at least had an exciting pre-launch event spread over Azeroth.

Yeahh....as much as I tend to disagree with Flying Monkey on just about everything, he's got it right this time. WoD is the clear bottom of the expansion list. Poor storytelling, poor game mechanics(Garrison..../barf) Rushed release, almost nothing in the way of content releases after launch. The steaming pile of wet garbage after a drowned dumpster fire that was Ashran.

Sorry...WoD was trash. There's no way Legion is worse than that, despite it's flaws.

[Noxina]

In WoD I complained that there was not much to do, usually I just sat in my garrions waiting for raid to start.

Now in Legion, I barely have time for my alts! While in WoD, alts was all I did. I've leveled a bunch up to 110, but rarely find the time to even do the emissary on them.

Love it.

Also the raids have been rather dope so far.

Bad part is all the RNG, professions are RNG based, legendaries are RNG based, ALL gear is RNG based with Titanforged. I feel a need to do LFR on my main, just incase that 920 titanforge can happen.
So if they toned down the RNG aspect (REMOVE TITANFORGE, Warforge is more than enough), gave us some way to target legendaries (Not that stupid token shit they came with now in 7.2). I would most likely put Legion as Nr.1 of all expansions.

[Rogalicus]

I didn't ignore 5.1, that was Brawler's Guild and the PvP daily area (I forget the name). I didn't include the latter because it became completely irrelevant with the isle of thunder, so I forgot it. 7.1 was Karazhan and ToV, which I also included.

WoD patch cycle was hard to compare to other expansions because 6.2 was both the first and final major patch of WoD. So I just went with 6.1 since it still included a raid (BRF).

But there were 3 raids with 5.1, next tier started in 5.2 with ToT release. And the same with 7.1, it added ToV, so 2 raids with 10 bosses total, not 4 with 29. Make up your mind: either you are defining first major patch as a start of new tier and you include 6.2, or you delete those. Also, T17+T18 had 30 bosses in total, more than Legion with ToS release in 3 months.

[Eggroll]

Legion has some good moments, but I feel like the design lacks soul. The condescending obnoxious attitudes of the devs kinda bleed through and it spoils everything.

Edit: it also lacks original new music which is a huge bummer for me

[Dziubla]

Coming from someone who was always defending Blizzard, even when they were doing shitty things, and who loved Legion at first...Lately I just can't.

I don't know if they have a timetable and are sticking to it no matter what, but the amount of untested complete utter bullshit that makes it to live is just outstanding. And I'm not talking here about some small insignificant things, but some really huge, gamechanging stuff. Funnily enough, if it's good for players, they nerf it in 30minutes tops, if it's bad for players, they don't bother for days, sometimes weeks.

I never really minded the fact that everything is about money, because I understand that blizzard is a company, and that they need to earn money, first and foremost. But the thing is, blizzard used to understand that the best way to earn money, was to keep your customers happy, and to provide them with a quality product. Lately? Who cares about quality. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Sub count>everything. Sad truth...

[Indigenously Abled]

I haven't played any Legion yet. Might pick it up when all the content patches are out, or they announce the next expansion. My days of playing WoW every day died in WoD.

[Twilight Cultist]

But there were 3 raids with 5.1, next tier started in 5.2 with ToT release. And the same with 7.1, it added ToV, so 2 raids with 10 bosses total, not 4 with 29. Make up your mind: either you are defining first major patch as a start of new tier and you include 6.2, or you delete those. Also, T17+T18 had 30 bosses in total, more than Legion with ToS release in 3 months.

Yeah, I completely understand what you are saying. I just didn't know if I should add it or not because WoD was a weird expansion compared to all other expansions in terms of content released. I'm not adamant about excluding 6.2; it's just the decision I ended up making after a few minutes of consideration. Anyway, I probably should edit that.

On the topic on the amount of bosses. Yes, including HFC would put WoD in a position of having more overall bosses in the first major patch compared to any expansion. However, it also has the least amount of dungeons of any expansion.