Stop giving Blizzard so much shit.

[ping-pong]

No. You are a customer, not a developer. The best insight a developer can get into players thoughts is short, concise, emotion-driven and not really offering solution. If a thing feels terrible for you in the game (eg. Marksmanship rotation) it's easier for the developer to hear "I fucking hate this bullshit, so many fucking RNG procs on top of other RNG procs and spam, MM was better in WoD" than a series of long, perhaps well-written posts explaining what needs to be done in order to fix things, followed by other people suggesting different solutions.

If a feedback is short and emotional, it finds its way easier up in the company ladder, because, hint hint, nobody out there will take hours to read through big posts, and will think it's just some theorycrafting. Big threads with lots of emotional responses, swearing, pointless "I QUIT BLIZZ GG" - suprisingly this works way better. Lights up the red light, gets prioritized, and dealt with sooner than other stuff. That's the kind of feedback companies expect customers to give, not a literal guide for them how to do their jobs.

You can make up logic to work any way. I can argue that any sane person seeing some people bitch about something childishly would ignore and just skip to something worth reading. Your argument about some fella quitting turning a red light would be valid if the company dealt with 10s or 100s of customers. However, in multi-million customer base it is impossible to satisfy everyone, and some people will quit no matter what you do. So someone saying he's quitting because of X is irrelevant, because there would be another someone quitting if they changed that very same X.

You are a customer, not a developer. Where exactly does that entitle you to childish, bitchy and bratty behavior? Do people really not see how they look when they post something like that? OK, you don't have to figure out and propose a solution. Start a thread and say what feels bad, in a normal way. Other people will join the discussion, it will get productive. Devs might join if they see it as a valuable discussion. Which they won't if half people act bratty.

[Koward]

Good for you! But you seem to be the exception. Blizzard tends to listen well to its players, despite complaints on this and other fora, and I think LFR is pretty popular for its player base. Just not for those posting here .

What if I told you something being popular does not mean it's a good feature for the game ?
Example :
People gather around problems to solve them. They complain, together. If you come with a solution to their problem, they will ask for it and love it, but they won't need to play together anymore. And the social tissue fades away, slowly.
In that kind of situation, giving people what they want is bad for them. It is completely counter-intuitive, but that's what it is.
You can apply this logic in all games and even in many real life situations.

[ping-pong]

the point isn't that you like it and i don't the point is blizzard making changes that no one asked for and then trying to fix it more and more; lfr for example has been introduced in wow as a necessary fix for the removal of casual friendly 10 man that happen back in cataclysm, i can give you a list of things that worked fine and were changed just for the sake of changing them making it worse.

Are you hearing yourself? They should only be making changes that were asked for? Who has the authority to tell them what to do? They are developers, they have ideas for the future of the game. They invent and implement stuff. Some of them will generally feel great, some will feel bad. Some you will personally like, some you won't. If something is widely accepted as bad, it will get worked on until fixed. Sometimes not right away, because the team is constantly working on something. It's all normal.

[Paula Deen]

I have never actually seen a thread I wanted to accuse the OP of of being a paid shill until this thread on MMOC.

Gratz.

[delzao]

I'm no blizzard employee dude. I dont have to do blizzard's work.

[Leonora]

What if I told you something being popular does not mean it's a good feature for the game ?
Example :
People gather around problems to solve them. They complain, together. If you come with a solution to their problem, they will ask for it and love it, but they won't need to play together anymore. And the social tissue fades away, slowly.
In that kind of situation, giving people what they want is bad for them. It is completely counter-intuitive, but that's what it is.
You can apply this logic in all games and even in many real life situations.

Generally this game is pretty popular, else less people would play it.
I should have said (because that is what I intended) that Blizzard listen well, but then takes their own turn - as is their freedom. They explained as the basis for LFR that they wanted to provide some players a chance to see raid content without the hardships and rewards that comes with real raiding. So they did, and they succeeded.

What I actually find the least appealing change in WoW over time is that they made a lot of content easier which removed the social aspect you describe. In Vanilla and BC the harder instances forced you to cooperate; in Wrath, 5 men became doable without cc and that removed the need to cooperate. Raiding also forces cooperation and thus social activity.

Nowadays I can solo almost anything, and 5 men are so easy you dont need to talk. Good that m+ and raids still exist or I would change the game from MMO to MSO, the S for solo.

[Okacz]

You can make up logic to work any way. I can argue that any sane person seeing some people bitch about something childishly would ignore and just skip to something worth reading. Your argument about some fella quitting turning a red light would be valid if the company dealt with 10s or 100s of customers. However, in multi-million customer base it is impossible to satisfy everyone, and some people will quit no matter what you do. So someone saying he's quitting because of X is irrelevant, because there would be another someone quitting if they changed that very same X.

You are a customer, not a developer. Where exactly does that entitle you to childish, bitchy and bratty behavior? Do people really not see how they look when they post something like that? OK, you don't have to figure out and propose a solution. Start a thread and say what feels bad, in a normal way. Other people will join the discussion, it will get productive. Devs might join if they see it as a valuable discussion. Which they won't if half people act bratty.

All I'm saying is, it's Blizzards job to find and interpret feedback. It's easiest to do if they simply find a lot of unhappy faces clustered in one place, this sends them a very simple message - we fucked up with this exact thing, and we fucked up bad. Better go fix it.

Of course well-educated, long feedback might start a discussion with the devs about problems in solutions - in a perfect world. Yeah, it happens sometimes, and is a really good thing, but gathering feedback is about damage control first and foremost, making sure customers aren't too unhappy about a single thing.

This is what happened with flying in WoD - we had a lot of talk, discussion, arguments and polls about flying in WoW when we were told that WoD will start without it. Developers treated it as a normal discussion between players, nothing to really look into - as they tend to do with class feedback. So, when Blizzard announced that flying is GONE, forums erupted in collective rage. Guess what - Blizzard immediately made a 180 and redirected all effort towards implementing flight on a continent where it was difficult as shit.

All I'm saying is, all the threads filled with immature whine, swears and "BB BLIZZ KKTHX" seem to be doing a better job at changing developers minds than even the most logical explanations sometimes. A guy who spent weeks designing a spec is going to defend his design with all his might when approached with questions and suggestions - but will make changes if a feedback gatherer fills his mailbox with forwards from forums.

[Celadir]

I'd seek financial compensation prior to doing PR work for Blizzard haha.

[Eleccybubb]

I have never actually seen a thread I wanted to accuse the OP of of being a paid shill until this thread on MMOC.

Gratz.

You haven't checked out the Rift and Wildstar megathread/sub forum then.

[Nmkyungri]

Blizzard deserves all the shit they get. I'm tired of testing 7.2 live on the game, i want the none fucked up 7.2 they should have tested INTERNALLY, when games like ff14 can do it with smaller staffs, so can blizzard. Not to mention they ignore feed back no matter what. This post is a great example ,it was made on the 7.2 ptr forums, 0 reply to it or anything mentioning it. Now its made on the real forums and is completely ignored because we arent just crying but having great feedback.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3747916?page=1

[Nmkyungri]

One of my big issues, these days, is blizzard wants detailed feedback like this when it's THEIR job to figure this all out. The level of feedback they desire is something that people should be getting paid to produce and they just ignore it. Even a blue checking in saying, "Great feedback, I'll pass this along," is better than their current method of communication. For those who aren't aware, Blizz currently likes to say nothing until they have 2000 words to post on a subject. It's their classic problem of extremes, they overpromised things in the past so now they don't want to say anything until it's 100% for sure. They have no idea how to communicate in a manner that allows for something in the middle. Instead of saying, "We will <insert promise>," it's very easy to say "We're looking at doing <insert idea>." Somehow they still haven't figured this nuance of the English language though.

Yup, like i dont understand our Shaman feedback on ENH is great basically did their jobs for them but i bet if we made a post saying FIX THIS OR UNSUB OR THIS SUCKS we would get more attention, actual feedback from mythic raiders, fuck that shit we ignore it.

[Shridevi]

- Blizzard is a business, it is part of Activision-Blizzard, which has a board and investors, the team over at Blizzard must return money to their investors, therefore,

- Blizzard's focus is money

Oh dear. We like playing good games. Blizzard's relationship with money, investors, stock holders, human resources, is entirely their problem. We are the consumers. We pay for a good product. Their product isn't good. The business elements that you cited have become obstacles for Blizzard in creating a good product, therefore it is justified that we attack those business elements which we feel are responsible.

Let's take this to the next level, and don't take this personally. You're a cuck. There are lots like you on this forum: gamers who once had souls but have unknowingly become cucks due to misplaced loyalty in the video game company which we all used to love. If you want to see the other cucks, just bring up legacy servers and see who trashes the idea because "it isn't profitable for Blizzard."

Really, I get it, I was one too, we all go through denial when a company that we hold dear changes, succumbs to greed, reveals its impermanent nature.

Take my advice and play a game with heart and soul like Stardew Valley or something, you'll see what you've been missing, and you'll hate yourself for previously defending a corporation's greed.

[Leonora]

All I'm saying is, it's Blizzards job to find and interpret feedback. It's easiest to do if they simply find a lot of unhappy faces clustered in one place, this sends them a very simple message - we fucked up with this exact thing, and we fucked up bad. Better go fix it.

Actually, no. Its Blizzards job to make a game. However, they decided that it pays off to ask the community what could improve the game - but without making WoW into a dmocracy, or giving players the impression that what they think will indeed get into the game.
That is quite a balancing act, since people feel entitled very easily. As your comment above shows.

Of course well-educated, long feedback might start a discussion with the devs about problems in solutions - in a perfect world. Yeah, it happens sometimes, and is a really good thing, but gathering feedback is about damage control first and foremost, making sure customers aren't too unhappy about a single thing.

This is what happened with flying in WoD - we had a lot of talk, discussion, arguments and polls about flying in WoW when we were told that WoD will start without it. Developers treated it as a normal discussion between players, nothing to really look into - as they tend to do with class feedback. So, when Blizzard announced that flying is GONE, forums erupted in collective rage. Guess what - Blizzard immediately made a 180 and redirected all effort towards implementing flight on a continent where it was difficult as shit.

All I'm saying is, all the threads filled with immature whine, swears and "BB BLIZZ KKTHX" seem to be doing a better job at changing developers minds than even the most logical explanations sometimes. A guy who spent weeks designing a spec is going to defend his design with all his might when approached with questions and suggestions - but will make changes if a feedback gatherer fills his mailbox with forwards from forums.

I read the flying discussion completely different. The dilemma here is (also) one of entitlement, but then of a different order than above. The problem is that we have been used to be allowed to fly from quite soon in an xpac since BC when flying was introduced. You had to level up without flying [because else the leveling was too easy *and* did not cause you to immerse in the world] but once op max lvl you were allowed to fly.

The problem with this approach is that the moment you are allowed to fly, any 'obstacles' (sea, mountains, nasty mobs, whatever) is void. Which completely removes (again) any immersive effects. Blizzard has moved away from that approach since Cataclysm, where you could reach any important world part via portals; I doubt they ever will make that possible again.

When people loose something they feel entitled to (which is incorrect - its up to Blizzard to decide when/if you can fly), they always become angry (seen it in my work when, for example, services were taken away that people took for granted but were not in their contract). So people got angry about flying.
The funny thing is, Blizzard never changed course. They just promised flying after you reach an achievement, and they then took care that the achievement can only be reached when you must have see all content in the world as they wish. Blizzard happy, you apparently happy .

Frankly, while flying will make traveling slightly easier, the whistle was a brilliant compromise. Getting there makes the traveling immersive, getting out is less of a hassle.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh dear. We like playing good games. Blizzard's relationship with money, investors, stock holders, human resources, is entirely their problem. We are the consumers. We pay for a good product. Their product isn't good. The business elements that you cited have become obstacles for Blizzard in creating a good product, therefore it is justified that we attack those business elements which we feel are responsible.

Let's take this to the next level, and don't take this personally. You're a cuck. There are lots like you on this forum: gamers who once had souls but have unknowingly become cucks due to misplaced loyalty in the video game company which we all used to love. If you want to see the other cucks, just bring up legacy servers and see who trashes the idea because "it isn't profitable for Blizzard."

Really, I get it, I was one too, we all go through denial when a company that we hold dear changes, succumbs to greed, reveals its impermanent nature.

Take my advice and play a game with heart and soul like Stardew Valley or something, you'll see what you've been missing, and you'll hate yourself for previously defending a corporation's greed.

You focus on Stardew thingy or whatever, you happy.
I play WoW because I still like the game. Me happy.
All happy. Right?

[Demithio]

One of my big issues, these days, is blizzard wants detailed feedback like this when it's THEIR job to figure this all out. The level of feedback they desire is something that people should be getting paid to produce and they just ignore it. Even a blue checking in saying, "Great feedback, I'll pass this along," is better than their current method of communication. For those who aren't aware, Blizz currently likes to say nothing until they have 2000 words to post on a subject. It's their classic problem of extremes, they overpromised things in the past so now they don't want to say anything until it's 100% for sure. They have no idea how to communicate in a manner that allows for something in the middle. Instead of saying, "We will <insert promise>," it's very easy to say "We're looking at doing <insert idea>." Somehow they still haven't figured this nuance of the English language though.

By design. They want to give the impression that they are listening and the player base has a say. However, after witnessing this for many years, its simply a marketing strategy. And of course most of the input gets ignored, because they never were really listening to begin with. I really feel this is just a mechanism to string people along from one expansion to the next.

[Valech]

Yo OP. People = shit. Just stop caring.

[Deleted]

- Blizzard must keep a balance between money & happiness, otherwise people will not see it worth it to play, a small introduction to the principles of value vs. pricing:

In WoW's cash cow phase?

Really?

[Kazgrel]

No game or game company is above criticism; whether it's constructive or not can be subjective, depending on how one views it.

If you're tired of what you deem to be constant shit flinging...lol, why are you browsing a web forum?

[Lastlivingsoul]

tl;dr: Complain, because otherwise, Blizz doesn't know, but offer a solution, don't just rant for the sake of ranting.

Snip -- Too Long But did read

Suggestive but unconvincing. People have given constructive feedback. They said they don't like the Legendary system and the gap left by Legendary gear that has a .002% drop. Blizzard didn't listen and made even more ways to AP grind and to wait for a .002% drop.

Aside from this I have taken your advice OP. I have stopped giving Blizzard shit by simply not playing. The toxic legendary community won't miss me and those still convince that ONE DAY they'll get lucky won't either. Doesn't matter because besides that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Problem solved.

[rda]

Right now, I can not even log in. The servers are going up and down (mostly down) on EU.

OP, is it good service from your point of view??

[yetgdhfgh]

We gamers have a obligation to keep every game company Blizz included shit to keep them on there toes.

If we didnt it would breed laziness and complacency and none of us want that.

We want the best experience possible and if we feel we aint getting that then its our right to give them shit on the forums to make them realise that our business should not be taken for granted!