Timewalking Raids? Opinions?

[RoKPaNda]

Anyway, it's timewalking, so you know it's going to be faceroll.

No, most people didnt have the best trinkets after a few weeks and many were still missing a couple of tier pieces and those people had to run lfr.

Only horrible guilds had their raiders do that tbh.

[Softbottom]

Not really because it will scale lvl and Ilvl, thus it is content that will never be outdated.

It will never be outdated but who is going to bother to run it? The only reason I have ever done timewalking dungeons is to get the extra seal. If that wasn't offered as the reward I wouldn't bother doing them.

[Deleted]

Yeah, here's to hoping they don't LFR it up. Otherwise it'll be garbage.

If it's using the same system to form groups for you rather than ask you to form the group yourself, it will always be like LFR in terms of difficulty, because you can not expect something to require communication and team work when you have no control of who is and isn't in your group. Automatically created group content will always be super easy for that very reason.

[Deleted]

It's going to be queued content. As it can only be, as guilds cba with old content. It's for the nostalgia. Molten core wasn't that bad. Might be an idea for them to chop the raid in parts like the current content and have loot drop from every boss.

[delus]

It will never be outdated but who is going to bother to run it? The only reason I have ever done timewalking dungeons is to get the extra seal. If that wasn't offered as the reward I wouldn't bother doing them.

Not you obviously. This content isn't for you.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Sounds interesting. I likely won't do them unless they're queueable, though. I remember most raids well enough that I have no reason to really ever want to run them again if there isn't something new out of them that would be worthwhile.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

Waste of resources, would probably end up like the molten core lfr nightmare.
Those fucking glaives are gonna be back.

[Deleted]

Waste of resources, would probably end up like the molten core lfr nightmare.
Those fucking glaives are gonna be back.

I wonder if the glaives are going to be Warglaives and not swords, meaning only Demon Hunters will be able to use them.

I recall they mentioned late last year that they were planning to redo Illidan's Warglaives for Demon Hunters, but they never said when it would happen. I was afraid it would be another artifact appearance for Havoc, but by the looks of it, this will be it.

I'm fairly happy about it but I expect every single Rogue, Warrior, Death Knight etc to be super pissed... ^^

[Stormspellz]

No, there are no good arguments for it. It's completely optional content.

just got the image of the al ittle kid throwing a tantrum screaming "no!".

[Stormspellz]

Considering that's exactly what you did.. I'm not surprised.

You literally said, "There's plenty of arguments for why LFR hurts the game more than it helps!" Then proceeded to provide no such argument, or even an attempt at one.

just because I didn't go into details doesn't mean or can not mean there are reasons that its existence effects the game even if its technically optional.

it increases content burn out with four difficulties of the same thing
easy excuse to get lazy with content creation like we saw in wod
it festers what many including myself consider a toxic culture, a recent twist is dealing with people expecting you to give them gear for example.

is just a few of the many augments one can make.

[Relapses]

There's no way this won't be piss easy LFR cannon fodder.

I'd still love to see Teron Gorefiend's mechanic handled by today's raiders.

[Stormspellz]

That's their own fault if they get burnt out. Again, it's optional after the first week pretty much.

coming full circle still doesn't change it having an effect on the game as a whole, and many feel its a negative effect.

[KrotosTheTank]

I wonder if the glaives are going to be Warglaives and not swords, meaning only Demon Hunters will be able to use them.

I recall they mentioned late last year that they were planning to redo Illidan's Warglaives for Demon Hunters, but they never said when it would happen. I was afraid it would be another artifact appearance for Havoc, but by the looks of it, this will be it.

I'm fairly happy about it but I expect every single Rogue, Warrior, Death Knight etc to be super pissed... ^^

To be fair, DKs aren't allowed to be super pissed lol, like Monks, they could get it once it was trivial; they didn't exist then.

[Stormspellz]

How many is "many"? Many people feel PvP has a negative effect on the game, or raiding itself has a negative effect, should they get rid of it? For the nth time, it's completely optional content that you can pretend doesn't even exist. If someone feels it's mandatory for whatever reason, that's on them. They're creating that false position.

- - - Updated - - -



If they get to practice with a flash minigame, it probably wouldn't be so bad. I can't seem to find the game anywhere now though.

So you saying LFR existing has no effect on the game?

[Stormspellz]

It has no negative effect on the game besides some imaginary made up bull shit where people just hate on raiders who do LFR. You still haven't made any argument besides saying it burns people out but that assumes it's content you're required to do and it's not. Do you have an argument for why people are required to do it? At least outside the first week of release.

No I had more examples, burn out is the only one you focused on.

but here are even more examples.

-in its current format its horrible for entry level raiding, builds bad habbits- Guldan was great example: the forums had a massive fit about the concept of not standing fire, which also goes back to my earlier example of festering a toxic community

- community has always been a big part of mmo's, and lfr is simply menucraft, people don't get "invested" into guilds/game through it.

-this one is a repeat, and while may not be perfectly accurate during legion, it was definitely the case in wod, lfr is a great excuse to cut/ignore content. Notice how the beloved 10man "casual" stand alone raid is no more?

but lets revisit "burn out" since you love it so much. Say you are a new or returning player, heck maybe a fresh alt. You grind through lfr for gear, then you grind through normal via lfg, and now you can join your guild for actual progression in heroic. This is a very real scenario many players deal with the same content with bigger numbers and maybe one, two at best new things ie mechanics. Don't really care who you are thats gets boring fast, even more so if you have to do it every patch for alts.

Now i'm sure you just gonna hand wave these away and call them as "stupid" but whether you dismiss these examples and others this is reflective of what a none negligible amount of players think about LFR. But in todays wow the Pandora's box is opened and lfr is here to stay, believe it no not I actually believe the lfr concept has a place in wow- if its done well, which currently it is not.

[Stormspellz]

The amount of people who choose to only do LFR and who would do normal raiding or higher if LFR didn't exist isn't very many people I imagine. Regardless, you're not providing any numbers to support that claim.

It building bad habits is irrelevant. If you keep those bad habits in more difficult content then you just simply won't make the cut. That's not any didn't than if LFR didn't exist.

If you're progressing through LFR and normal before doing heroic and then you get burnt out, how would that change than if you were just doing heroic or mythic the entire time instead?

How could it be done any differently? Make it harder? That's normal mode. Make it nonqueuable? That's normal mode. What else is there to change?

Now i'm sure you just gonna hand wave these away and call them as "stupid" but whether you dismiss these examples and others this is reflective of what a none negligible amount of players think about LFR.

but what can you do? off hand, you can remove lfr being part of the "story" raids and lower normal mode and make lfr be rotating timewalking raids. I'm sure the devs can cross the hall to the hots/overwatch/what ever the new diablo game is teams and come up intriguing concepts to innovate lfr if they tried.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Unless they are expecting these to be done with fully premade groups, it's going to end up at LFR-levels of difficulty. There's just too many people out there that can't seem to grasp basic boss mechanics and as such they have to factor that in.

To be fair, most bosses in this raid have very few mechanics that could challenge our characters. Remember, bloodboil was an entire fight, and they took him into hfc with the same mechanics, just as part of a counsel encounter. That really shows how complexity has elevated over the years. Those fights were challenging because of tuning and how classes worked back then though, so it depends if they tune it to be hard or not. I expect it to be easy because our characters are just much much more powerful than they were back then.

[Dooflop]

i feel like timewalking raids are gonna end up like timewalking dungeons. Where the mechanics are pretty trivial and everything is scaled horribly.

[Relapses]

i feel like timewalking raids are gonna end up like timewalking dungeons. Where the mechanics are pretty trivial and everything is scaled horribly.

This goes without saying. I'd be more surprised if it isn't.

[Deleted]

I saw it was queue able with a pre-made group from the blue text. From the front page and official patch notes:

Timewalking: The Black Temple
The time has come to join a raid of 10-30 adventurers and venture back in time to The Black Temple in Outland. You’ll be scaled to player level 70 and item level 141 on your way into this memorable highlight of the Burning Crusade expansion.
When Burning Crusade Timewalking is active, premade groups of 10-30 players may queue for Black Temple Timewalking by speaking to Vormu in Shattrath City.

Bolded the important part here.
It seems not to be on the LFD/LFR queue, but instead requires a pre-made group and going to a special NPC in Shat.

Here's hoping this means they learned from the MC event.