7.2.5 Havoc changes incoming

[Cymorìl]

It seems an overall nerf (very little however), let's see how fluid rotation will be with this change to demon blades...

[Granador]

Jeez guys , evertime u are freaking skeptical ? The freaking RNG is gone , Im not gonna sit there without procs for 10 secs losing shit ton of dps , even if the fury regen is lowered it is a buff cuz u will have no RNG in the spec anymore .

[BrioWoW]

I'd rather have consistent dps than sometimes being a god, sometimes being middle pack dps, and sometimes being dog shit. I wish they would push some of the meta burst dps into sustain though.

[Oracle]

Preliminary results of sims are actually showing that we will get a DPS increase moving talents back into 112X111 as the VR buff is actually quite large.

This is running current stat weights, I believe Haste will have a VERY large affect on these changes especially when we include T20 - Set Bonuses

7.2.5 Test Sim (without ring as I don't have it)

Fel Mastery + Prepared = 63% uptime on Momentum

Based on a 300 second fight:

Talents - 112X111
45 x DBite = 1,146 Fury
20 x VR = 2,000 Fury
30 x FR = 900 Fury
Total = 4,046 Fury (95 GCDs) + 63% up time Momentum (20% dmg)

Talents - 122X311 (assuming NO changes to Felblade proc chance)
223 x DBlade = 1,881 Fury
36 x Felblade = 1,070 Fury
Total = 2,951 Fury (36 GCDs) + 56% up timeNemesis (25% dmg)

[Sarevokcz]

I dont know about you - either it is Russia or USA or Zimbabwe, but after recent hotfixes it does not disconnect me - I yet to have seen a single disconnect in past 2 weeks. Moreover, I've never seen that FR teleported me somewhere else, I always know where I will be.

on botanist, each of 3 of us DHs got DCd in one night, unless the terrain is perfectly flat, DCs still happen

- - - Updated - - -

Preliminary results of sims are actually showing that we will get a DPS increase moving talents back into 112X111 as the VR buff is actually quite large.

This is running current stat weights, I believe Haste will have a VERY large affect on these changes especially when we include T20 - Set Bonuses

7.2.5 Test Sim (without ring as I don't have it)

Fel Mastery + Prepared = 63% uptime on Momentum

Based on a 300 second fight:

Talents - 112X111
45 x DBite = 1,146 Fury
20 x VR = 2,000 Fury
30 x FR = 900 Fury
Total = 4,046 Fury (95 GCDs) + 63% up time Momentum (20% dmg)

Talents - 122X311 (assuming NO changes to Felblade proc chance)
223 x DBlade = 1,881 Fury
36 x Felblade = 1,070 Fury
Total = 2,951 Fury (36 GCDs) + 56% up timeNemesis (25% dmg)

sounds good on paper.

now if bosses have mostly large hitboxes ala NH and mechanics dont constantly force you into specific positions is the question, because i sure as hell am not gonna play momentum on something like augur or botanist, but would give it a try on, say, anomaly

[zoomgpally]

I mean Havoc does have some issues atm.
FEL RUSH STILL DISCONNECTS US
Demon Blades and Nemesis (the passive talents) are both the best choice in almost all situations. Something that Blizzard never wanted to happen (at least that is what they communicated in the past).
The class it self only has one valid spec. Demonic is a very cool and fun build, but for mythic content it is way behind DB, so there is basically only one talent choice to play.
FEL RUSH STILL DISCONNECTS US
Anger of the half giants got nerfed again, but it is still the best legendary in all situation. Not only because of the DPS increase but because it lowers the randomness of the demon blades build and minimized down times that sometimes feel really bad (e.g. when happening during CB).
A really big part of havocs dps comes from burst and outside of this, the class feels a bit weak. Would be nice if there was some sort of middle ground.
FEL RUSH STILL DISCONNECTS US

That are the most urgent issues atm from my point of view. Ofc the passive vs active talents is debatable, but the last statement from Blizzard was that passive talents should not be the best choice in all situation.

If they manage to fix this in a meaningful way - awesome. If instead they start to do something completely random, not so awesome.

You forgot to mention the fel rush disconnect...

[Deleted]

Do you think our stats prio will change with the changes in PTR 7.2.5?

[Shirofune]

Who knows what are we gonna do.

I'm scared of Momentum being a thing again in raids, seriously.

[Deleted]

Who knows what are we gonna do.

I'm scared of Momentum being a thing again in raids, seriously.

Momentum with Felrush Dissconects - amazing playstyle!

[Soikona]

Who knows what are we gonna do.

I'm scared of Momentum being a thing again in raids, seriously.

I welcome it! It is a lot better than this brain dead spec we play ATM

[Shirofune]

I welcome it! It is a lot better than this brain dead spec we play ATM

Sure, it requires more skill. It doesn't make it fun in bosses like Mythic Star Augur, though. Its just unplayable because of the raid mechanics.

[Deleted]

I feel they need to completely remove or rework the Chaos blades. It's just too OP and basically causes the insane burst at pull. The 100% proc Demon Blades is welcomed change to make the spec more consistent, even if they'll probably reduce the amount of fury it gives to compensate. Also the meta needs some changes, having half the duration and CD would be better, as it would make it more flexible.

Although, I must say that mechanicaly demonic is just much more fun to play. However, I do understand they don't want to buff it, as it would make it great spec for both ST and AOE.

???????? Many classes have a % damage increase ability, chaos blades isn't anything different, hell there are classes that have it pure in their mastery as well, why would you wanna nerf it when most of your damage is in your burst and not your sustain. if they nerf that or remove it we'd be weak af compared to other melee classes.

[Deleted]

Hmm so lets try some basic math and figure out how big of a nerf this DB change is.

currently we have a procc which gives 12-20 fury on a 60% chance. this results in a mean of 16 per hit with a chance of .6, therefore about 9.6 fury per hit on average.
now, we get a nerf down to 6-12 or 9 fury per hit. so theres a .6 fury per hit loss.

dmg wise we are at 85% dmg at 60% chance, thus 85*.6 = 51% dmg. compared to the 50% after the nerf, we are sitting at:

- .6 fury and -1%point dmg reduction. slight nerf yet still a nerf. it might smooth out things and make fury starvation and overcapping more manageable. but we'll see.

taking AotH into account, fury generation changes as follows.

from (16 + 3,5)*.6 per hit = 11,7 to
(9+ 2)*1 = 11 per hit. So yeah, we actually lose fury per hit for the sake of less RNG. basically we lose 5,06% fury generation after this change when you take the ring into account. We'll see how this plays out. Maybe haste may become a more important factor as Fury generation is more reliable.

[Granador]

I'm currently testing Demonic with Chaos Cleave , and I Must say it is quite nice simming only 10k lower than Chaos Blades spec but there is no freaking RNG with it which makes him way more stable .

[Dimzum]

I'm still waiting for the day momentum can stack. It would negate a lot of the issues in NH where VR and FR out of the boss can be an extreme penalty. Also allows for longer bursts when you need to burn. VR>FR>go ham.

[Stanislav]

so we go from momentum outrage to fury gen outrage back to momentum?

no thanks blizz

time to main my warrior for 7.2

[Backstabak]

???????? Many classes have a % damage increase ability, chaos blades isn't anything different, hell there are classes that have it pure in their mastery as well, why would you wanna nerf it when most of your damage is in your burst and not your sustain. if they nerf that or remove it we'd be weak af compared to other melee classes.

Because I'd like to have sustain instead of burst. If we don't have this insane burst (and quite random because of the fury generation), blizz can tune numbers so we would have actual sustain, instead of toping the meters first 30s and then continuously fall throughout the fight.

[Veiled Shadow]

Messing around on the PTR I'm almost certain the Felblade proc has been nerfed commensurate with the increase in DBlades proc. Which would make sense given the other changes.

No, no nerf. Felblade is on rppm, so increasing the frequency of the trigger event (in this case demon blades) doesn't change the number of procs.

[ssviolett]

on botanist, each of 3 of us DHs got DCd in one night, unless the terrain is perfectly flat, DCs still happen

bah, who cares, we will get Warglaives of Azzinoth in 7.2.5 xD

- - - Updated - - -

so we go from momentum outrage to fury gen outrage back to momentum?

no thanks blizz

time to main my warrior for 7.2

Indeed :\ Really don't want to go to DB spam again :\

[Musta]

bah, who cares, we will get Warglaives of Azzinoth in 7.2.5 xD

Are we? Where did you get this idea?