7.2.5 Retribution

[SilenceRedo]

So far haven't seen anything. What I wouldn't mind seeing is Consecration still made baseline and the talent being changed to something. Crusade made baseline and it being replaced with something to make that row feel a bit better. Though I still don't know of when Holy Wrath would be better than the others ever.

I can remember ONE moment. The legion prepatch haha. It was insane the damage it dealt on some HFC fights. Like Vehlari or Iskar. After that, a really meme talent.

[Ulthane]

So I noticed there is a legendary ring for Rogues that give them the Vigor talent for free. If this is going to be a thing, where legendaries could give a talent what one would we wanna see for ret?

[Temna]

So I noticed there is a legendary ring for Rogues that give them the Vigor talent for free. If this is going to be a thing, where legendaries could give a talent what one would we wanna see for ret?

I think the easiest one to impliment would be Divine Purpose but maybe at slight lower percentages. Would give that too...lets say some gloves I think.

[Morally Grey Storm]

So far 725 looks great.
Retribution will become even more balanced.
I was really looking up to losing about 800 strength, as our single target was getting out of hand.
Boosted aoe through judge unlogical will boost us come tomb of surgeries.


This Storm is never gone.

[Ulthane]

So far 725 looks great.
Retribution will become even more balanced.
I was really looking up to losing about 800 strength, as our single target was getting out of hand.
Boosted aoe through judge unlogical will boost us come tomb of surgeries.


This Storm is never gone.

-hands you a cookie-

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I think the easiest one to impliment would be Divine Purpose but maybe at slight lower percentages. Would give that too...lets say some gloves I think.

Yea I was thinking Divine Purpose as well. Thing is would it be worth breaking Cloak + Belt for that?

[Temna]

-hands you a cookie-

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Yea I was thinking Divine Purpose as well. Thing is would it be worth breaking Cloak + Belt for that?

Would help if I had the cloak >.> But I think it might be...question mark? Was more just spitballing ideas there, but I do think gloves...Bolvar's Handguards for a name maybe.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Having bota scale with gear is a very welcome change actually, disregard logical conclusion it won't ever scale back to its original power.

Regarding legendaries providing abilities /talents, I think we should take a look at aegisglamour bracers of awesomename, and be content with it.

[Bormec]

The fact that they tried to murder Crusade and then didn't, and haven't mentioned it (or anything really) for 7.2.5, worries me. They had a boner for Crusade and unless it got lost in the shuffle of higher priorities for other specs, I have to wonder what their plans are. Keep in mind there are no Holy relics for Avenging Wrath/Crusade in Tomb of Sargeras.

[Deleted]

The fact that they tried to murder Crusade and then didn't, and haven't mentioned it (or anything really) for 7.2.5, worries me. They had a boner for Crusade and unless it got lost in the shuffle of higher priorities for other specs, I have to wonder what their plans are. Keep in mind there are no Holy relics for Avenging Wrath/Crusade in Tomb of Sargeras.

With 4 set bonus the divine hammer/blade of justice damage increasing trait is very close to the crusade increasing one in value so even with no crusade relics we might still have good relics available to us.

[killwithpwr]

To be fair, our strength will go up in tomb and even higher after 7.3, so they might be planning way far ahead for BoTA, lets not forget concordence as well.
But our talents are in dire need of attention. Having one interchangable (maybe 2 if you like Zeal) is a shitshow, and the problematic crapfest that is Retribution buff to me feels as if Blizzard were content with giving us a weapon and nothing else for this expansion. Doesnt matter if we top the meters or the bottom of them, thats allways going to change.
The spec has no diversity in terms of gameplay and is no longer flashier than others, its a shame really.

Blizzard should get rid of Retribution, Crusade and the Judgement buff, and make the talents more choicy.
As well as a mobility fix.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Question is though.

Will this change make Alliance Paladin Draenei>Human?

[Wrecktangle]

Can't be mine because I always use BoW on Trilliax. I did accidentally use Divine Purpose on Skorpyron and probably would've ended up #1 in raid with it until I died (through no fault of mine, people kept getting hit by shockwave and the little scorpions aggro'd on me and yeah). Forgot to change spec from my world questing so I didn't have as many defensives as I usually like.

I just looked up Reith on Stormrage, looks like mostly LFR ones. The log was from like 3 weeks ago (so when I used the word recently, I may have exaggerated a bit).

[Reith]

I just looked up Reith on Stormrage, looks like mostly LFR ones. The log was from like 3 weeks ago (so when I used the word recently, I may have exaggerated a bit).

Ah. Probably before I actually knew which stuff to use on that fight. I don't even use flasks usually on LFR so eh.

[Wutangrza]

Yeah, there are very very few fights where BoW is worth using. I guess like normal/heroic stuff, but that stuff is pretty trivial and probably not worth wasting tomes on.

Literally every fight in M NH DH is quite a bit better than BoW. This is because you really don't have to hit *that* many targets for that much time for DH to win. You also get a slightly better opener with DH, depending on legendaries and timing windows, you can either DH at 4s on the countdown and then run in and do normal rotation (you get 10s free DH this way since by the time you want to use DH it's off CD), or you can use the "stack crusade as fast as possible opener" of "DH with 8s left on countdown, run up (get 2 free HP) -> CS -> DH -> J -> TV -> CS -> TV -> Wake -> TV -> CS -> TV (you're now at 15 stacks)"

The closest fight I can think in M NH where BoW might even remotely be considered is Star Bro, but those little adds do need to be cleaved down, and DH is so close ST that pretty much every ret runs DH on every fight in M NH. I'm actually surprised they haven't buffed BoW, but then, I actually like not having to swap talents every single fight in PvE.

[ThePants999]

DH hits hard even single target - harder than BoJ. The key thing you "lose", taking DH over BoW, is getting it every 12s (before haste) rather than 10.5 minus procs. But on single target, with TFoJ clearly superior, combined with T19 4pc, we don't have enough spare globals with BoW. We spend a bunch of time with CS capped at 2 stacks due to prioritising BoW and spenders. So a big part of that "loss", you make straight back up with increased CS damage. It's not even about the fact that there are no pure-ST fights in NH - the ability to sometimes hit a second target makes DH a clear winner, but it would be practically a dead heat even on Patchwerk.

[Reith]

DH hits hard even single target - harder than BoJ. The key thing you "lose", taking DH over BoW, is getting it every 12s (before haste) rather than 10.5 minus procs. But on single target, with TFoJ clearly superior, combined with T19 4pc, we don't have enough spare globals with BoW. We spend a bunch of time with CS capped at 2 stacks due to prioritising BoW and spenders. So a big part of that "loss", you make straight back up with increased CS damage. It's not even about the fact that there are no pure-ST fights in NH - the ability to sometimes hit a second target makes DH a clear winner, but it would be practically a dead heat even on Patchwerk.

DH doesn't get you extra TVs, though. I also don't use 4P in single target. There's still room for BoW in GCDs without 4P and it can be argued that BoW(+4P) can increase the uptime of legendary cloak buff over DH, so not having empty GCDs is not a loss anyway.

[Deleted]

Seems this will affect somehow our trinket choices as well. Is this taking into account strength proccs as well or ?

[ThePants999]

DH doesn't get you extra TVs, though.

But it doesn't necessarily lose you TVs, either. As I said, with TFoJ+BoW+4pc, you often find yourself effectively GCD-capped rather than HoPo-capped. So the reduction in HoPo generation from DH is offset by an increase in HoPo generation from CS. I find myself using the same number of finishers with either talent.

I also don't use 4P in single target.

Fair enough. I can see that making sense in conjunction with the cloak. I remain sadly cloakless

[Benssax]

But it doesn't necessarily lose you TVs, either. As I said, with TFoJ+BoW+4pc, you often find yourself effectively GCD-capped rather than HoPo-capped. So the reduction in HoPo generation from DH is offset by an increase in HoPo generation from CS. I find myself using the same number of finishers with either talent.


Fair enough. I can see that making sense in conjunction with the cloak. I remain sadly cloakless

Sounds like me 7 legendaires no cloak....

[Reith]

But it doesn't necessarily lose you TVs, either. As I said, with TFoJ+BoW+4pc, you often find yourself effectively GCD-capped rather than HoPo-capped. So the reduction in HoPo generation from DH is offset by an increase in HoPo generation from CS. I find myself using the same number of finishers with either talent.

Fair enough. I can see that making sense in conjunction with the cloak. I remain sadly cloakless

Yeah, cloak makes BoW more attractive for single target because that's 15% more damage for more TVs that come more often which makes TV literally at least half my damage on single target. If a couple more of my tier pieces had higher ilvl I'd consider 4P just for more consistency in cloak buff alone, but they're not high enough ilvl (nor ideal stats) compared to a couple of my non-tier pieces to justify it for single target.