Balance Druid 7.2.5 Patch notes

[beaver1024]

@MV Kaa

As I mentioned. This player was really dedicated to his class and spec. I do not believe, that many players have time and patience to reach this level. This is the reason, why moonkins in general are not the top damage dealers in any stats (even if they perofrm well at AOE Boss fights). The damage mechanics are too complex. The motto "easy to learn, hard to master" has changed to "easy to learn, only a few can master".

This makes no sense whatsoever, are you saying that current balance low rankings at 75 percentile is because balance players are bad?

[Skylarking]

Have you seen what the new set bonus does? It increases our astral power generation, which I feel is the cause of most of our damage problems in single target anyway. We don't need number adjustments to our damaging spells, we need less instances of having to cast non empowered wrath/lunar strike.

If you look at log percentiles, where we are not bottom for single target (95th percentile and higher), it's because most of those players have the legendary helm. The helm ensures you almost never cast unempowered wrath/lunar strike, and it effectively increases your astral power generation. Give us more astral power generation, we'll be on par with other classes on average.

That avatar makes me very uncomfortable

[Mewseph]

This makes no sense whatsoever, are you saying that current balance low rankings at 75 percentile is because balance players are bad?

He's saying that Balance performance is heavily punished for misplays and heavily rewarded for playing right, like utlising movement periods appropriately, maximising legendary effects and not wasting GCDs. Balance as a playstyle IS very unforgiving, if you don't manage your AsP and movement correctly as dictated by the content and your current talent/legendary setup then you'll do relatively poorly.

That's some of it, I do think that some of our talents are either heavily overtuned (Stellar drift, Starlord), heavily undertuned (FoE, Natures balance, Stellar flare, Astral communion, Force of nature) and/or sacrifice too much in one area to git gud in another (AoE, ST and burst), but generally speaking 'optimal play' for balance isn't very intuitive and is more punishing than other specs.

[huth]

FoE isn't undertuned. The basic mechanic is contraintuitive and impractical in real situations and it doesn't scale with both of our best secondaries at all. There's no real way to fix it without a mechanical rework.

[beaver1024]

He's saying that Balance performance is heavily punished for misplays and heavily rewarded for playing right, like utlising movement periods appropriately, maximising legendary effects and not wasting GCDs. Balance as a playstyle IS very unforgiving, if you don't manage your AsP and movement correctly as dictated by the content and your current talent/legendary setup then you'll do relatively poorly.

In other words, "good" players at the 75% rank should "git gud" and learn to play because they're not doing it right. They should be doing what the 95 - 99% kids are doing and ignore mechanics to get good dps. Frankly I find this unhelpful and insulting.

[Slippykins]

I get 99 ranks and still do mechanics, but maybe I just got lucky.

On topic: I agree with Huth that FoE is going to require a rework to make it operational, which means that there wont be any changes this expansion. Additionally, Stellar Flare may be in the same boat in that it wont be addressed for a while. This leaves us with our typical talent dichotomies of {SotF vs. Inc}, {ShS vs. BotA} and {SD vs. NB}. Hopefully in the coming tier, we will be able to accommodate more ST-centric builds like Inc/BotA/SD or Inc/ShS/NB, in light of the SD nerf. SD nerf actually impacts SotF more than expected.

[MV Kaa]

@MV Kaa

As I mentioned. This player was really dedicated to his class and spec. I do not believe, that many players have time and patience to reach this level. This is the reason, why moonkins in general are not the top damage dealers in any stats (even if they perofrm well at AOE Boss fights). The damage mechanics are too complex. The motto "easy to learn, hard to master" has changed to "easy to learn, only a few can master".

So youre saying that top world boomkins arnt good enough because they arnt dedicated to their class and spec? That isnt isnt their class but rather them that makes the class bad?

[Mewseph]

In other words, "good" players at the 75% rank should "git gud" and learn to play because they're not doing it right. They should be doing what the 95 - 99% kids are doing and ignore mechanics to get good dps. Frankly I find this unhelpful and insulting.

That's one way to look at it. Another, more pragmatic, way would be for those players to recognise and understand the mistakes and flaws in their play style and practice to improve their performance. The difference between those parsing at 75% and those at 95% is literally experience, practice and skill.

I parse around 75-80% for my ilvl most encounters while doing mechanics. I waste AsP, I waste GCDs moving, I double cast DoTs on Whisper procs by accident, I fat finger the wrong spell almost every single encounter, or I don't utilise our auto-cleave spells enough etc etc I know I could do a lot better if I really practiced and tried harder, but that's not why I play the game and raid.

On topic;

@Slippy; Honestly it might be an idea to give Balance the Elemental treatment and shuffle some of the talents around and tune them in the process, we're probably going to be stuck with the current 2 option tiers for the rest of the expansion though. I've been raiding as Balance since TBC, we've been in much worse states previously, we function well as a spec it's just the lack of options and diversity in talents that puts a taint on things.

[Slippykins]

I've been raiding as Balance since TBC

Nothing beats equipping an agility staff halfway through the fight to melee the boss for mana back. Fun times.

[sinofasin]

sidebar, what are you guys pumping your 43rd trait into?

[Cowa]

sidebar, what are you guys pumping your 43rd trait into?

43 - scythe of the stars
44 - sunfire burns
45 - twilight glow

seems to be the common path many are taking

[Polarthief]

43 - scythe of the stars
44 - sunfire burns
45 - twilight glow

seems to be the common path many are taking

+1 for this. Only 44, halfway to 45 atm but it's what I'll be doing.

46+, I'm not too sure. Probably SW/LS (or vice versa) > Stellar Emp (since I play Memekin on every fight) > Emp > Armor > wishing I don't have to dump millions of AP into a literally worthless trait to bump up the fucking proc rate of a garbage ICD micro-heal.

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That's one way to look at it. Another, more pragmatic, way would be for those players to recognise and understand the mistakes and flaws in their play style and practice to improve their performance. The difference between those parsing at 75% and those at 95% is literally experience, practice and skill.

I parse around 75-80% for my ilvl most encounters while doing mechanics. I waste AsP, I waste GCDs moving, I double cast DoTs on Whisper procs by accident, I fat finger the wrong spell almost every single encounter, or I don't utilise our auto-cleave spells enough etc etc I know I could do a lot better if I really practiced and tried harder, but that's not why I play the game and raid.

Plus cheese. You forgot cheese. I got 19th (now 31st at the time of me posting this) on Mythic Krosus this week with LATC/OI and AoE talents, NOT maximizing my single-target damage with ED (yes I have it) and ST talents.

Also I do a lot of the same and yet I almost always get purple or orange parses (except for Trilliax on Mythic because I'm forced on bitch duty: to watch the bombs like a hawk) [older parses are missing because I server transferred]. I don't consider myself an amazing/great player at all. In fact, I usually refer to myself as "a shitter Druid". I know I could do better (like playing with the correct talents on most fights, using ED, etc), but I just want to have fun, and apparently, that's more than enough for my guild to do Mythic, soooo...

[Zan15]

I get 99 ranks and still do mechanics, but maybe I just got lucky.

.

are your guilds mythic logs private or something? all i see is heroic cheese. wana see some playbacks !! gimeee gimeeeeee

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+1 for this. Only 44, halfway to 45 atm but it's what I'll be doing.

46+, I'm not too sure. Probably SW/LS (or vice versa) > Stellar Emp (since I play Memekin on every fight) > Emp > Armor > wishing I don't have to dump millions of AP into a literally worthless trait to bump up the fucking proc rate of a garbage ICD micro-heal.

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Plus cheese. You forgot cheese. I got 19th (now 31st at the time of me posting this) on Mythic Krosus this week with LATC/OI and AoE talents, NOT maximizing my single-target damage with ED (yes I have it) and ST talents.

Also I do a lot of the same and yet I almost always get purple or orange parses (except for Trilliax on Mythic because I'm forced on bitch duty: to watch the bombs like a hawk) [older parses are missing because I server transferred]. I don't consider myself an amazing/great player at all. In fact, I usually refer to myself as "a shitter Druid". I know I could do better (like playing with the correct talents on most fights, using ED, etc), but I just want to have fun, and apparently, that's more than enough for my guild to do Mythic, soooo...

damn no kidding on the cheese. you went up 10 points in the ranking just by putting out 2-3x on the adds the 2nd parce.

[Slippykins]

are your guilds mythic logs private or something? all i see is heroic cheese. wana see some playbacks !! gimeee gimeeeeee

Yep, private until we kill Gul'daniel this or next week. Then free game until ToS.

[Zan15]

Yep, private until we kill Gul'daniel this or next week. Then free game until ToS.

lol why the secret SneakyKins

[Polarthief]

damn no kidding on the cheese. you went up 10 points in the ranking just by putting out 2-3x on the adds the 2nd parce.

I'm not denying it's an absolute bullshit parse, I'm just saying a large portion of parses are bullshit. Look at Skorpyron for a good example. Literally every (and I mean EVERY) top parse is because they're doing the cheese method where you just have all the scorpions as they spawn in. It's why Skorpyron isn't even part of the All Star rankings anymore.

My point is that because of stuff like this, your genuine parses look "worse" in general, which is why it can sometimes feel unrewarding when you feel like you did amazing and still end with a 50-60% parse, or feel like you did awful and pull literally 19th on Mythic Krosus. Seriously, I thought I did pretty bad on that kill and the logs are like "well you did all this damage to adds so grats, you got 19th", plus I was quoting you regarding "skill" and whatnot while any Joe Shmoe can pull off what I did (even in Mythic) and still get an orange or at least purple parse without having much skill. You can also faff around with the bloods on Tichondrius, pad meters on Augur by DoTing/AoEing the Things That Should Not Be that you're leaving up, etc.

TL;DR: Parses are bullshit because of cheese/padding unless the fight is completely cheese/pad-proof.

[huth]

You can also faff around with the bloods on Tichondrius, pad meters on Augur by DoTing/AoEing the Things That Should Not Be that you're leaving up, etc.

NH is probably the only raid where you can literally pad by doing the Things That Should Not Be.

[Deleted]

Hey dear balance friends,

I read almost all of your post, keep in mind that first patch notes is not a real patch notes. They said few times that in 7.2.5 we will have lot of changes, i mean all classes.
I'm playing balance since Legion ( played warlock or sp since BC ) for me balance is a strong choice. In my guild we are 9/10 MM and making try on Gul dan MM. I'm a top 5 DPS on every boss. i did 95+ and lot of top 100 world on the 9 first boss. Balance indeed is pretty low if you are looking on +75% parses, i guess it's more punishing if you fail cd gcd or movement. I feel like we can't fail as balance to do parse, now it's your job to train on every boss as hard as you can do be 200% prepare.

About changes atm -10% on SD i guess it's fair we are pretty OP in aoe fight. Then about +11% SS for me it's a up not a nerf. Ok we are losing our +15% on 4p, but look the new 2P ( we will be more free ) and 4P is fucking insane if you are lucky with the ED leg BP or not you will be free to cast whatever you want.

Try to look WOL rotation movements with replay option to increase your DPS this is how i learnt. And now in 9/10 Guild i am considered as top TIER DPS if you are doing your work fine you can be a top dps.

[Deleted]

Hey dear balance friends,

I read almost all of your post, keep in mind that first patch notes is not a real patch notes. They said few times that in 7.2.5 we will have lot of changes, i mean all classes.
I'm playing balance since Legion ( played warlock or sp since BC ) for me balance is a strong choice. In my guild we are 9/10 MM and making try on Gul dan MM. I'm a top 5 DPS on every boss. i did 95+ and lot of top 100 world on the 9 first boss. Balance indeed is pretty low if you are looking on +75% parses, i guess it's more punishing if you fail cd gcd or movement. I feel like we can't fail as balance to do parse, now it's your job to train on every boss as hard as you can do be 200% prepare.

About changes atm -10% on SD i guess it's fair we are pretty OP in aoe fight. Then about +11% SS for me it's a up not a nerf. Ok we are losing our +15% on 4p, but look the new 2P ( we will be more free ) and 4P is fucking insane if you are lucky with the ED leg BP or not you will be free to cast whatever you want.

Try to look WOL rotation movements with replay option to increase your DPS this is how i learnt. And now in 9/10 Guild i am considered as top TIER DPS if you are doing your work fine you can be a top dps.

yea, these are just words. my last hc krosus i was 99%, higher dps than the 10 ilvl higher balance in the group since i took pitches in the range. this will never be allowed in mythic. link your logs so we can tell you're actually doing mechanics instead of just turrenting while others do the work.

[Deleted]

yea, these are just words. my last hc krosus i was 99%, higher dps than the 10 ilvl higher balance in the group since i took pitches in the range. this will never be allowed in mythic. link your logs so we can tell you're actually doing mechanics instead of just turrenting while others do the work.

Our logs are private, Krosus is maybe the only one where you need to skip your work to parse. Since there is a lot of guilds with 10/10MM a lot of them try to do best parse and you have to keep in mind that they are doing tech for parse not to kill. It's the problem between early mid progress and end progress.