Who sacrificed more: DH or DK?

[Friendlyimmolation]

There's "could," and there's "did"

Demon Hunters "could"

Death Knights "did"

Dying =/= willing sacrifice.

And I mean, you could also poke your eyes out in a war, what with all those swords and all.

poking your eyes out =/= demonic ritual.

[Hctaz]

Wasn't it only Thassarian that was on a suicide mission?

A lot of death knights were on suicide missions prior to being raised. Mograine, himself, actually sacrificed his life in order to free the spirit of his father which led to him becoming the leader of Acherus.

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's about the only thing I really see them having sacrificed.

Pun intended.

Maybe because your depth of knowledge on Demon hunters is about as shallow as a puddle?

[Hctaz]

Dying =/= willing sacrifice.



poking your eyes out =/= demonic ritual.

How does dying not equal a willing sacrifice? These people didn't get hit by cars lol they were soldiers fighting against the scourge. That's pretty damn willing to me.

You're telling me that soldiers nowadays don't sacrifice their lives when they fall in combat? And how many people would be willing to wage war on an enemy that can raise you from the dead to force you to fight against the people you love? I doubt many would.

[Friendlyimmolation]

And all of the wars fought before and after the scourge did not hold the same weight as what the death knights dealt with. There is no fear of dying to the Legion. I've seen plenty of lore characters kills by demons. Varian, Vol'jin, nameless NPCs... they just die. They get the peace of death. Dying is no sacrifice to them because it means that they fought for the things they held dear and now get the peace of death forever after fighting for a good cause. Death Knights did not and will never.

Soul forges say hello. Forsaken say Hello. I guess a random Forsaken citizen sacrificed as much as any DK.

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How does dying not equal a willing sacrifice? These people didn't get hit by cars lol they were soldiers fighting against the scourge. That's pretty damn willing to me.

Im using the same logic of "Demon hunters poked their eyes out, therefore they didn't sacrifices anything serious" If Dying against the scourge means the ultimate sacrifice, then every post scourge forsaken has sacrificed more.

[Ghazan Julio]

Death Knights probably have it a lot easier without fel magic clawing at their mind nonstop.

[Kaleredar]

Maybe because your depth of knowledge on Demon hunters is about as shallow as a puddle?

Nothing you've said has convinced me they sacrificed more that Death Knights, seeing as Death Knights actually gave their lives.

All the fluff about "rigorous Demon hunter training" is immaterial. Death Knights put up with ravaging hunger, unbearable pain, and the knowledge of what they did every single day, and choose to keep existing and keep fighting the good fight.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Nothing you've said has convinced me they sacrificed more that Death Knights, seeing as Death Knights actually gave their lives.

All the fluff about "rigorous Demon hunter training" is immaterial. Death Knights put up with ravaging hunger, unbearable pain, and the knowledge of what they did every single day, and choose to keep existing and keep fighting the good fight.

Lawl, read the Illidan book before you continue to dig the hole you are making deeper.

All the fluff about "rigorous Demon hunter training" is immaterial. Death Knights put up with ravaging hunger, unbearable pain, and the knowledge of what they did every single day, and choose to keep existing and keep fighting the good fight

The irony is astounding.

[Amirila]

And all of the wars fought before and after the scourge did not hold the same weight as what the death knights dealt with. There is no fear of dying to the Legion. I've seen plenty of lore characters kills by demons. Varian, Vol'jin, nameless NPCs... they just die. They get the peace of death. Dying is no sacrifice to them because it means that they fought for the things they held dear and now get the peace of death forever after fighting for a good cause. Death Knights did not and will never.

The fear that if they ar enot defeated then the world world and universe will all die or be enslaved would be a big threat

That's about the only thing I really see them having sacrificed.

Pun intended.

I see you're heavily invested in their lore then

A lot of death knights were on suicide missions prior to being raised. Mograine, himself, actually sacrificed his life in order to free the spirit of his father which led to him becoming the leader of Acherus.

Obviously not important ones that have names

[Kaleredar]

Death Knights did not however, know they would be risen as a Death Knight in the end. If they did, that kind of takes away a bit of the sacrifice, wouldn't you say?

No, it doesn't. They died defending their homelands.

This is not to belittle the sacrifice of DKs BEFORE they were risen - The heroes who died and subsequently were risen as Death Knights gave their lives for whatever cause they were fighting for, and that is a sacrifice worth noting. But most did not fight for that cause under the impression that "If I die, I'll be risen as a Death Knight, forever bound to serve the Lich King, and therefore mistrusted by all in my homeland, but I won't allow that and I'll fight back despite everything." They expected to die and be left dead.

The scourge and its capabilities was a well-known threat at the time (vanilla through BC.) And Death Knights don't become some "new person" after being raised; Death Knights still have their original souls, and are the same people. They're still the people who sacrificed their lives.

Demon Hunters knew full well that their choice would have them exiled from their homelands. (if there were anything left of those homelands.) They made their choice knowing full well what failure meant to them - They all chose to give up their past lives to fight the Legion, knowing if they failed they would be prey for the Legion.

It's not comparable. Demon Hunters made a greater sacrifice. Death Knights made a sacrifice worth noting, but greater than Demon Hunters it was not.

Fighting against the scourge had a very clear potential cost, a cost that they DID suffer and paid for. And they continue to suffer for their sacrifice on both physical and mental levels.

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Lawl, read the Illidan book before you continue to dig the hole you are making deeper.

The irony is astounding.

Maybe you could try presenting some compelling facts instead.

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I see you're heavily invested in their lore then

I am.

And my investment hasn't found much compelling about Demon Hunters.

[Amirila]

I am.

And my investment hasn't found much compelling about Demon Hunters.

Obviously not if you think they just cut out their eyes

[Selastan]

By definition it's giving something up willingly. Death knights got turned into death knights against their will, that's not sacrifice

What's stopping a death knight from jumping off of Acherus and ending their torment? Every day they choose to live with their torment so that they may atone for the sins of their creator.

[Amirila]

What's stopping a death knight from jumping off of Acherus and ending their torment? Every day they choose to live with their torment so that they may atone for the sins of their creator.

So their sacrifice is seeking atonement?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Maybe you could try presenting some compelling facts instead.

or you could bother to inform yourself and not expect others to spoonfeed you the lore.

I am.

And my investment hasn't found much compelling about Demon Hunters.

Sometime tells me your effort was less then minimal.

[Kaleredar]

So their sacrifice is seeking atonement?

Their existence is sacrifice, compounded upon what they sacrificed beforehand.

Some use that existence to seek atonement.

[Deleted]

Well Death Knights were risen against their will, right? And the constant need to inflict pain, or feel it yourself, coupled with not sleeping, eating etc. Demon Hunters willingly gouged out their eyes and bathed in Fel so i'd say DK have suffered the most.

[Hctaz]

So their sacrifice is seeking atonement?

They have many sacrifices, one of which is the fact that they're actually attempting to help the world even though they have no reason to. They will go to hell for their actions as minions of the Lich King regardless of whatever good deeds they do accomplish. There's literally no point. They do not belong in the world and have no place in among the living yet they still fight to give others a chance to enjoy their lives. Demon Hunters are people who could live relatively normal lives after the threat is over. Death Knights can never so the war they fight is completely meaningless to their own well being.

[Amirila]

Their existence is sacrifice, compounded upon what they sacrificed beforehand.

Some use that existence to seek atonement.

"Demon hunters have a constant craving for fel power and demonic flesh, and live in constant torment from the sacrifices they've made"

Seems like it's not only DKs!

[Selastan]

So their sacrifice is seeking atonement?

Pretty much. They could easily end their miserable existence but they choose not to. They sacrifice their the peace of death that was taken from them, they choose to 'live' a hellish existence so that they might do some good to counter the evils of their former master, and of themselves. They don't need to exist anymore, their open grave lies waiting for their return, yet they sacrifice that so they may fight.

[Kaleredar]

or you could bother to inform yourself and not expect others to spoonfeed you the lore.



Sometime tells me your effort was less then minimal.

Demon hunter sacrifice seems pretty clear.

They bind themselves with a demon's heart and take on fel magic so that they can fight the burning legion using its own powers and cut their eyes out to gain spectral sight and because they can't stand the visions the fel powers inflict them with. They can be consumed by the demon's will. They can lose control of their bodies.

If you think it's more "nuanced" than that, I'd love to hear it. Basically, Demon Hunters are just warlocks who use big fancy blades and cut their eyes out.

Warlocks can be consumed by the fel energy and the demons they control. Same with Demon Hunters. You could argue that Warlocks do so more out of self-interest, but that's another argument.



Meanwhile, Death Knights:

Risked their lives to fight the scourge knowing full well that they could be raised as a member of the scourge. The separation here is that they WERE raised as a member of the scourge. Their "potential sacrifice" was fulfilled. Not only did they risk their life, not only did they risk becoming an unholy monstrosity, they DID. Then, after becoming an unholy monstrosity, they committed numerous atrocities in the scourge's name. They broke free of the scourge's control and, instead of ending it all because of what they did, continue to exist in pain and anguish with memories of what they did because they believe in fighting for a better world.