A Question for Leftists and Progressives: Is This What You Mean by ‘Equality’?

[Tijuana]

STOP mixing politics with social issues! It's an absurd thing to say.

Beeing a left wing supporter is not tied to Social views on equality. It has to do with the state and how to run it. Completely different topics!

So, do you agree then that racism is not on the political spectrum? Do you also detest it when people call racists "hard right"?

In hindsight, the article headline seems to be really provocative. That wasn't my intention.

[Wyrt]

In the eyes of the public, there's a world of difference between them. His girlfriend promptly broke up with him upon learning he was actually Mexican, saying she couldn't be seen dating him.

It was on NPR, could probably find it somewhere.

People are dumb. Mexicans are native to the Americas and are therefore native Americans.

[Jun]

because trans people don't deserve social equality. I don't advocate to hurt/injure them but it should NOT be socially acceptable. Believe it or not the majority of people believe the same exact thing. The only ones who don't are the weirdo extreme leftists who think that change for the sake of change is the right way to go.

That's a pretty biased opinion, which I refute. The majority of people don't care; you are who you are. Besides, I'm neither weirdo nor extreme, yet I'm fine with trans people being treated like (gasp) people.

[May90]

because trans people don't deserve social equality. I don't advocate to hurt/injure them but it should NOT be socially acceptable. Believe it or not the majority of people believe the same exact thing. The only ones who don't are the weirdo extreme leftists who think that change for the sake of change is the right way to go.

YOU should not be socially acceptable. Get out!

[Tijuana]

Was just joking!

I don't think this is a relevant argument, to be honest. The question "Should women and men compete in the same pool?" I would answer with "Yes and no". Women who want to compete against men and men who want to compete against women are free to do so. Professional leagues can set up their own rules on who can or who cannot compete. It all should be up to the individuals and the organizations. Sure, most leagues allowing both genders to compete will be dominated by men, due to the physical superiority - which is totally fine. If someone is unhappy with it, they may seek another league to compete in.

It is obvious that transwomen are going to have certain physical advantage in certain sports over ciswomen. Should they compete together? Again, up to them and to the organizations funding the competition.

The article is about youth sports. Do you think that boys who merely state they are girls should be allowed to compete against biological girls? In professional sports, you would have a much higher standing than what seems to be being practiced in school districts across America.

[Sneezeburger]

So inequality and special privileges are ok because of perceived social standing in society? Where have I heard that same logic before...

No, they're not. But there will always be cases that fall through the cracks and I'm not going to abandon workplace protections for millions of trans people to protect the integrity of a few regional sports programs.

[Tijuana]

That's a pretty biased opinion, which I refute. The majority of people don't care; you are who you are. Besides, I'm neither weirdo nor extreme, yet I'm fine with trans people being treated like (gasp) people.

I agree that we should treat everyone with respect. Is it fair though? Is it fair that biological girls have no chance of beating these boys in the article?

[May90]

The article is about youth sports. Do you think that boys who merely state they are girls should be allowed to compete against biological girls? In professional sports, you would have a much higher standing than what seems to be being practiced in school districts across America.

If it is a private school, the decision on whether to allow them to compete against biological girls should be totally up to the administration. If it is a public school, then I don't know; I'd rather have all kids, regardless of their gender or claims, to compete together, I think.

[Zmaniac17]

However, what of the other children, when they are made to compete on the same playing field, that becomes anything but level?

It's good preparation for when they get destroyed by the Lance Armstrongs, Mark McGwires and Arnold Schwarzeneggers of the world. There is no level playing field. If professional sports, with million dollar budgets for drug testing, can't be fair then how could high school sports?

This doesn't seem like a left/right, progressive/conservative issue here. This is a social issue that needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis.

[Venant]

Do you find it interesting that it would lead to no biological women being able to win in women's sports? How does that intersect with feminism, in your view?

Considering that all 'identity movements' are pretty much superiority movements looking to gain special privileges for their own identity class, the whole concept of intersectionality is pretty insane. In the end, all of this stuff just turns into what we all ways see with marxism, a small elite oligarchy will enrich themselves because they will be the ones given the power to dole out privileges. If these people every took over, it would turn into the same thing that we saw replay over and over in the 20th century, where suddenly this ruling party would realize that they only really need to give privileges to the people with the guns and tanks.

[schwarzkopf]

OP - I suspect you are getting your up/down (Authoritarian vs Libertarian) confused with your left/right (Social vs Capital)

In reality, the rational folk are planted right in the middle - believing in a balance of left/right and up/down - presenting extreme points of view on any of those axes produces no defence of other extreme views.

[Sneezeburger]

I agree that we should treat everyone with respect. Is it fair though? Is it fair that biological girls have no chance of beating these boys in the article?

Look, if Congress wants to pass a bill prohibiting discrimination based on gender identity and providing transition related healthcare, but with the provision that high school athletes have to compete in divisions consistent with their sex at birth, I will accept that without blinking an eye. But that's not going to happen, because 90% of the time, the people getting outraged about shit like high school sports are the same people who are fine with employers firing people for being trans.

[Very Tired]

No, they're not. But there will always be cases that fall through the cracks and I'm not going to abandon workplace protections for millions of trans people to protect the integrity of a few regional sports programs.

Actually the story is representative of a bigger problem as a whole. One that can easily be abused if a precedent isn't set.

If a man identifies as a women, should they be given the normal preferred treatment when it comes to applying for male dominated jobs like engineering?
If a person identities as a Native America, is it ok to give them special treatment when it comes to college admission?

People could easily start abusing the system, claiming to be whatever works best for them, only making actual trans people look worse.

[Deleted]

So, do you agree then that racism is not on the political spectrum? Do you also detest it when people call racists "hard right"?

In hindsight, the article headline seems to be really provocative. That wasn't my intention.

Yes, i do!

Social positions are not tied to politics. You can be a defendor of right wing politics and defend social equality. You can be left wing and defend that women should stay at home.
The wings separate doctrines on how to run the state.

[ohiostate124]

Many fighting sports already divide the competition within genders based on physique, maybe that will become a thing to solve the dilemma between transgender equality and competitive integrity of physical sports.

You mean weight classes? Mixing men and women together based on weight classes isn't going to fix anything.

[Sneezeburger]

Actually the story is representative of a bigger problem as a whole. One that can easily be abused if a precedent isn't set.

If a man identifies as a women, should they be given the normal preferred treatment when it comes to applying for male dominated jobs like engineering?
If a person identities as a Native America, is it ok to give them special treatment when it comes to college admission?

People could easily start abusing the system, claiming to be whatever works best for them, only making actual trans people look worse.

If it gets to be THAT much of a problem, then you can institute safeguards such as a note from a treating physician that an individual is transgender or a DNA test confirming that an individual does, in fact, have Native American DNA. But until such time as those abuses become something more than "well what about that one guy who did that one thing," I'm not going to worry about it.

[Bodakane]

This article and the people that tout it have no fucking what equality means nor what people on the left are asking for. It's not a shock though, they don't understand a whole lot outside of their view anyway.

[derpkitteh]

i honestly don't believe a transgirl should be able to compete with biological females unless they are actively transitioning, because their biology does give them an advantage.

they should be loved and supported, but they shouldn't be allowed into something they will have an unfair advantage at.

[Tijuana]

If it is a private school, the decision on whether to allow them to compete against biological girls should be totally up to the administration. If it is a public school, then I don't know; I'd rather have all kids, regardless of their gender or claims, to compete together, I think.

Really? Why? The boys would always win, and that would lead to girls no longer competing. We are talking about post-puberty kids here, not 2nd graders.

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It's good preparation for when they get destroyed by the Lance Armstrongs, Mark McGwires and Arnold Schwarzeneggers of the world. There is no level playing field. If professional sports, with million dollar budgets for drug testing, can't be fair then how could high school sports?

This doesn't seem like a left/right, progressive/conservative issue here. This is a social issue that needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Ha, fair point about Sosa and McGwire. =p

I continue to be amazed at how many separate this issue from being a leftist issue. If nothing else, I learned that many of you don't realize your (and most others) social issues align with your political issues.

[Independent voter]

I agree with the OP article, if you're born male and you weigh 230 and are 6'4" and you have all the muscles of a male you shouldn't be competing with women who were born female because it isn't fair.