Kosovo vs Crimea

[Machismo]

Not at all. I say here that countries act the same, but Americans and Western Europeans disagree. The difference between me and them is that I recognize countries tend to do what they like, not what is good. But my opposition here believes otherwise, namely that America simply does things for the sake of humanity.

It is laughable.

So, are you upset that Russia took land and people against their will, or you angry that the United states did not? Make up your mind.

[Deleted]

So, they invaded, which you have admitted. Thanks.

It was an illegal referendum and they stole land... once again, thanks for agreeing with me. How outraged are you by such an injustice?

The invasion is irrelevant as the invasion isn't what gave Crimeans their independence. It is the referendum.

Actually, whether or not it was unjust for the Ukrainian people is irrelevant. The injustice in question here refers to America doing the same thing without repercussions, whereas Russia got punished severely. Try again though.

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So, are you upset that Russia took land and people against their will, or you angry that the United states did not? Make up your mind.

I'm "upset" that Russia gets punished for doing the same thing America did that America had no consequences for.

[Damajin]

They aren't really "upset."

That's just the cover, or the excuse, for trying to turn Russia into the latest "bogey man."

A lot of people make money off these little conflicts or "wars." They drive countries to war so they can profit. They would love it (and make a fortune) if they could restart the good ole' Cold War.

They really don't care who dies- as long as they can line their pockets.......

Won the thread in the first response, good job.

[Deleted]

America is an occupying force is Kosovo? That's news to me...

Kosovo is their satellite state. If Americans want, they'll start a conflict there or anything else they like.

[Machismo]

The invasion is irrelevant as the invasion isn't what gave Crimeans their independence. It is the referendum.

Actually, whether or not it was unjust for the Ukrainian people is irrelevant. The injustice in question here refers to America doing the same thing without repercussions, whereas Russia got punished severely. Try again though.

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I'm "upset" that Russia gets punished for doing the same thing America did that America had no consequences for.

It's not irrelevant, you are trying to say they did the same thing. You are trying to ignore shit that goes against your narrative... talk about cognitive dissonance. You are embarrassing yourself.

[Ausr]

You are experiencing cognitive dissonance. I think you should get some sleep and maybe let it go away.

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Well whoever Ulmita is, if the version 1.0 managed to tick you off, I consider it an honour to be version 2.0.

No, he didn't tick me off. He was completely retarded, ignored all reason and evidence, and does what you do. I only paid attention to him because it's fun to pick on the mental kid.

[Deleted]

Ah, thats cute: you're making up things randomly, and out thin air, now. Looks a bit desparate.

You should stick to your OP: you know, the OP that requested a discussion that did not involve significant differences so that a true and honest discussion could be had. I'd like you to support my expectations a few more times before the thread disappears into depth of the general-OT forum.

Edit:

$$$$$ cha-fucking-ching you proved me right again Mirkzat. TY sir!

Saying there are differences in principle is not the same as proving it. You can try to prove it, but you will fail.

The only difference you mentioned is Russia annexing Crimea. They did it by allowing Crimeans do choose. This is the "principle".

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No, he didn't tick me off. He was completely retarded, ignored all reason and evidence, and does what you do. I only paid attention to him because it's fun to pick on the mental kid.

I bet you just couldn't understand version 1.0 of him because you were used to the beta version, which is a few levels behind. Now I don't expect you to understand version 2.0 (me) either. But practice makes perfect, so keep working hard and you'll get the point!

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It's not irrelevant, you are trying to say they did the same thing. You are trying to ignore shit that goes against your narrative... talk about cognitive dissonance. You are embarrassing yourself.

It is irrelevant because the invasion isn't what created the independence. It only secured the existence of the referendum. But if a referendum is okay (ala Kosovo), then troops securing that it takes place is okay too.

Keep trying.

[callipygoustp]

It's kind of ridiculous that people can't adhere to what the OP requested: non-significant differences. Examples of what would be appropriate:
1. Both the US and Russia are world powers; granted, plenty of people would argue Russia isn't much of a power anymore.
2. Kosovo and Crimea are both in Europe.

Feel free to come up with your own relevant talking that adhere to level of discussion that the OP is requesting.

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Saying there are differences in principle is not the same as proving it. You can try to prove it, but you will fail.

Why would I need to try? And how have I failed? You have proven my point several times in this thread. Fuck dude, you make it easy Again, TY sir!

The only difference you mentioned is Russia annexing Crimea. They did it by allowing Crimeans do choose. This is the "principle".

You're slipping, I never said that. Slow down, take a deep breath, and try again. Cracks are showing. Recoup before they get deeper and wider.

[INVASMANIXOXOXO]

How has nobody mentioned Cechnya, I feel like that is the more relevant example. "We are recognizing the people's will" as long as their will is to be under Russia. Also stuff like Prague spring makes it hard to give Russia the benefit of the doubt. Every one is entitled to their own opinion, but its strange to me that some one from a former warsaw pact country would defend Russia. And this is not ancient history, my mom was alive when the tanks came into Slovakia.

[Deleted]

You're slipping, I never said that.

Really? Then you've been more useless to the thread than I initially thought.

How's that cognitive dissonance progressing?

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How has nobody mentioned Cechnya, I feel like that is the more relevant example. "We are recognizing the people's will" as long as their will is to be under Russia. Also stuff like Prague spring makes it hard to give Russia the benefit of the doubt. Every one is entitled to their own opinion, but its strange to me that some one from a former warsaw pact country would defend Russia. And this is not ancient history, my mom was alive when the tanks came into Slovakia.

Why has nobody mentioned blacks and native Americans? I really wonder why after years of oppression and arguably even today if it is true that blacks get judicial and other forms of systemic discrimination, that they cannot have their own sovereign territory.

Nobody is saying Russia is good here, but that it isn't doing anything different in principle to what America is doing.

Nice try though!

[callipygoustp]

Really? Then you've been more useless to the thread than I initially thought.

"I(Mirkzat) was wrong but you(Callipygoustp) are useless!" - that is a quality response when getting called out on being wrong.

Really, you should take my advice, I'll repeat it again:

Slow down, take a deep breath, and try again. Cracks are showing. Recoup before they get deeper and wider.

[Deleted]

but its strange to me that some one from a former warsaw pact country would defend Russia.

Yugoslavia has never been in the pact.

[Deleted]

"I(Mirkzat) was wrong but you(Callipygoustp) are useless!" - that is a quality response when getting called out on being wrong.

Really, you should take my advice, I'll repeat it again:

I just gave you the benefit of the doubt by saying you said something relevant to the thread that you didn't.

I'm sorry for thinking you are of any use.

[callipygoustp]

I just gave you the benefit of the doubt by saying you said something relevant to the thread that you didn't.

Self delusion is boring I expected better. Kind of getting bored with the made up BS now.

Please go back to proving my initial point, please please please! That was far more entertaining.

[Paulosio]

I really tend to get amused when Western Europeans and Americans criticized Russia for holding a referendum in Crimea and recognising it. I just have one question to you: Exactly what did Russia do that is in principle not the same as what America and the West did by recognizing an independent Kosovo?

Russia didn't just recognise an idependent Crimea. They invaded with military force after bombarding the populaion with the exact same type of propaganda about Nazis etc. that they have done in places like Georgia and Lithuania. Then they held a dubious referendum results while the place was still occupied. Were there mass protests or any major movement from within Crimea calling for Crimean population calling to secede and join Russia ? No...

Russia has form for this type of thing. Look at the case of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia... They will do the same in the Baltic countries if they can find a way. They are already pumping the same propaganda into those regions and they've even sent in Russian Nazi provocateurs posing as locals to try and stir things up.

btw if you really want an answer to you question there are literally hundreds of major articles pointing out why it's not the same if you google "difference between kosovo and crimea".

[Tijuana]

Kosovo is their satellite state. If Americans want, they'll start a conflict there or anything else they like.

The US does not have puppet states, such as Russia does. I don't know what you are on about. We favor Democracy, and mutually aligned benefits.

[Deleted]

The US does not have puppet states, such as Russia does. I don't know what you are on about. We favor Democracy, and mutually aligned benefits.

What do you call the UK if not puppet state?

[Deleted]

Russia didn't just recognise an idependent Crimea. They invaded with military force after bombarding the populaion with the exact same type of propaganda about Nazis etc. that they have done in places like Georgia and Lithuania. Then they held a dubious referendum results while the place was still occupied. Were there mass protests or any major movement from within Crimea calling for Crimean population calling to secede and join Russia ? No...

Russia has form for this type of thing. Look at the case of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia... They will do the same in the Baltic countries if they can find a way. They are already pumping the same propaganda into those regions and they've even sent in Russian Nazi provocateurs posing as locals to try and stir things up.

America also invaded Serbia and bombed them, and sent "peacekeeping" troops to Kosovo. They then supported the Kosovo government in their efforts to make a referendum, and recognized the results.

The differences here are extremely minor. Nobody is saying there is no difference at all in terms of how it came to happen, but that is laughable to suggest being important. What is important is that both America and Russia recognized referendums that violated the sovereignty of other states. No less, no more. Russia only took a step further and recognized Crimea as its own state, but again - because the people there VOTED for it.

[INVASMANIXOXOXO]

Yugoslavia has never been in the pact.

Oh my mistake, I just assumed because they were communist they were behind the iron curtain. And in reference to all the messed up stuff the US has done, yeah its 100% true. Slavery and the genocide of native Americans is appalling. And I disagree with some of the meddling USA does abroad too, for example I don't understand why we have to be so adversarial with Iran an alliance with them is way more appealing to me with one with Saudi Arabia. In reference to the blacks being discriminated against... I have lived in eastern and northern europe (very young on the northern one), and yeah there is definitely systemic racism but I still stand by my opinion that Europe on average is more racist than the US. I would love to hear opinions from people that have lived in both though.

[Deleted]

The US does not have puppet states, such as Russia does. I don't know what you are on about. We favor Democracy, and mutually aligned benefits.

They are de facto puppet states. America has the money, the power and the agents to influence many countries to do what America wants.

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Self delusion is boring I expected better. Kind of getting bored with the made up BS now.

Please go back to proving my initial point, please please please! That was far more entertaining.

You had no point. You only showcased cognitive dissonance, which I love observing! Continue kindly!