The Trumpcare Zombie Rises From the Grave: Trump Desperate For A Win Before 100 Days!

[Sunseeker]

44k isn't a living wage in many parts of the country thanks to inflation of basic living requirements. And I think the ACA implosion is a much bigger loss for the Democrats than it is for Trump: A lot of Dems staked their careers on the ACA being a step towards single-payer, and it's going to revert to the status quo ante.

Maybe it isn't, but 44k IS the average American income.

I disagree. Trumpcare is a double-loss for Democrats. Trump wins, AND the ACA fails. A return to the "status quo" is a failure for Democrats yes, but it's less of a failure than a failure for them and a success for the GOP. Beyond that, a lot of people have never actually left the "status quo" for insurance, for them the loss of the ACA will mean little difference. But the implementation of Trumpcare presents a possible massive change for them, as well as everyone else.

[Kujako]

It is really easy for Trump and the GOP to repeal it the first chance they get, only they've been working on a healthcare bill for...I'm gonna call it 4 months at this point...

Then why was it almost verbatim what Ryan has been pushing for almost nine years?

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Maybe it isn't, but 44k IS the average American income.

2016 census has it at 55,775. But that's household income not personal.

[Sunseeker]

2016 census has it at 55,775. But that's household income not personal.

Household income usually assumes two wage earners, as 55k is roughly double the per capita income of the country on average.

By "average" I should say "mean average". As opposed to the median.

[Kujako]

Household income usually assumes two wage earners, as 55k is roughly double the per capita income of the country on average.

By "average" I should say "mean average". As opposed to the median.

Census says average single household income was 65,751$. Forever alones make more money!

[LaserSharkDFB]

It is really easy for Trump and the GOP to repeal it the first chance they get, only they've been working on a healthcare bill for...I'm gonna call it 4 months at this point, when it became evident that yes, Trump was going to be in the White House. Most people don't grasp how big an upset the Trump win was in the election, and it strikes me as likely that the GOP didn't have anyone working on healthcare during the Obama administration. The GOP could solve healthcare prices in the US with two or three bits of legislation, while cutting out insurance companies and also probably reducing insurance prices because insurance premiums are in part a derivative.

They've had six years to work on it. If it wasn't ready, why did they try to push their new plan? Trump kept saying how they were working on 'a beautiful plan', but unlike the ACA, neither he nor the GOP put any effort into the shambles they tried to push through. The ACA took months because they conferred with just about everyone that had a stake in it: hospitals, pharma companies, insurers, and so on. No, the ACA isn't perfect, but it's leagues better than what we had before, which was only slightly better than nothing.

[artemishunter1]

Don't know... my gf just paid 4K for determining she has a gall bladder stone in an emergency room. Not fixing it or some treatment, just pain killers and tests to figure out the cause of pain. This is with employer provided insurance, which would have fucked us pretty bad 15 years ago, when we were going pay check to pay check... It would have been 10k+ without insurance...

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Yeah, the problem with it "failing and failing bad" enough to justify killing it, would result in millions of people losing healthcare coverage. It's failing is a principled view. If your opinion of its success is the access of American people to healthcare, then it succeeded. If your KPIs are purely ideological, then reality doesn't factor much into your KPI.

Then, that success is not worth it. The current plan yes, gave millions access to healthcare, except those millions are poor people, Immigrants, illigal immigrants, and their many children. The cost however, was your middle class citizens of the U.S.. The current plan sacrifices your MOST productive citizens to care of foreign nationals, least productive people and their MANY MANY MANY children. Do you know how many children those poor people and immigrants having in this country on average?

[ati87]

Then, that success is not worth it. The current plan yes, gave millions access to healthcare, except those millions are poor people, Immigrants, illigal immigrants, and their many children. The cost however, was your middle class citizens of the U.S.. The current plan sacrifices your MOST productive citizens to care of foreign nationals, least productive people and their MANY MANY MANY children. Do you know how many children those poor people and immigrants having in this country on average?

That's just bullshit, what does ''taken care of foreign nationals'' even bloody mean? WHo do you think are those ''foreign nationals''?

I'm pretty sure foreign nationals don't benefit from the ACA since it's a system for Americans and if you are a tourist from a foreign nation you would need you;re own insurance.

[breadisfunny]

Shooting craps is a risky business. Why should responsible people have to shoulder all the cost for the irresponsible? Should not the irresponsible pay a reasonable penalty for their irresponsibility?

because people with conditions like epilepsy that your born with are really irresponsible.....

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Why is illness being tied to responsibility? I don't think someone wakes up one day and say to themselves 'Let's have a dose of cancer for the rest of my life'.

what do you mean? that cancer flavored drink was really tasty. i couldn't help myself.

[Zan15]

He owns like 10- 12 golf courses which are very successful. And a golf course is like a company, if you know much about them. And I used no Google. lol!

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But it still had the lies of, " If you like your doctor, you can keep him and if you like your insurance plan, you can keep it." :P And stop acting so condescending. That can make one look less convincing. Make your point and let it stand on it's own merits. Just a suggestion. Reject it if you want. No sweat off my ass.

The golf courses are a perfect example of trump businesses.
he basically puts his name on something and collects royalties, He's hardly running those golf courses. But he is successful at a brand i will give him that, it makes him tons of money.


As far as the lies, it was true what he said about the ACA and its been twisted.

ACA let you keep your doctor and keep your insurance plan.
ACA however did not force the doctor to stay in your network
ACA did not force insurance companies and the companies you work for, to keep offering the same plans.

[Noxx79]

Then, that success is not worth it. The current plan yes, gave millions access to healthcare, except those millions are poor people, Immigrants, illigal immigrants, and their many children. The cost however, was your middle class citizens of the U.S.. The current plan sacrifices your MOST productive citizens to care of foreign nationals, least productive people and their MANY MANY MANY children. Do you know how many children those poor people and immigrants having in this country on average?

Oh noes, how dare poor people get insurance!!!!

[Jtbrig7390]

Then, that success is not worth it. The current plan yes, gave millions access to healthcare, except those millions are poor people, Immigrants, illigal immigrants, and their many children. The cost however, was your middle class citizens of the U.S.. The current plan sacrifices your MOST productive citizens to care of foreign nationals, least productive people and their MANY MANY MANY children. Do you know how many children those poor people and immigrants having in this country on average?

Clearly you don't realize that the ACA only covers legal US citizens....

Poor people and people with pre-existing health issues should be covered as well as anyone else. Want to fix the system, go single payer and scrap the current system fully.

[Sunseeker]

Oh noes, how dare poor people get insurance!!!!

That all aside, the middle class still pays for the poor's medical problems. Either in terms of unrecoverable medical debt (ie: services that cost money that were provided but never paid for) or in prison costs (where poor people get healthcare for free!). Keeping the poor healthy is beneficial to the nation, sick poor people spread disease which costs non-sick people more money. Healthy poor people are more likely to be able to work and stop being poor people and of course, less likely to spread disease. Heck, even "free" regular checkups and "free" basic antibiotics would go a long way to keeping the poor healthy. If someone gets sick and doesn't have access to a cheap way to get better, guess what? They get more sick!

[shimerra]

Trump is use to taking risks. And this new plan seems to have more support and does sound like a better one. Not near as bad as what the OP has tried to say it is. The first plan sucked. Plus like a lot of things he said he wanted to do during his campaign, most know he can only do what Congress and the judges ( Supreme Court ) allows him to do. He is not always unchallenged. If I was him, I would keep trying to push thru a replacement for Obamacare.

It's not hard to be better than the 1st plan. I could wipe my ass and present it and it'd be better than trump and Ryan's plan. And despite your assertions this plan is at best a two wipe plan with the best idea coming out of it being high risk pools. And that idea is absolute expensive and ineffective bullshit.

So far his two tries have been pretty horrendous and he shows no signs that he understands that or how to actually address the problem

[Glnger]

And the ahca would kick 24million people off insurance and give the wealthiest of Americans a $50,000 + tax break.... how his that in anyway better for Americans or America? If you agree, why are you arguing?

[Ghostpanther]

The golf courses are a perfect example of trump businesses.
he basically puts his name on something and collects royalties, He's hardly running those golf courses. But he is successful at a brand i will give him that, it makes him tons of money.


As far as the lies, it was true what he said about the ACA and its been twisted.

ACA let you keep your doctor and keep your insurance plan.
ACA however did not force the doctor to stay in your network
ACA did not force insurance companies and the companies you work for, to keep offering the same plans.

He is rich enough to hire others to manage them. That is usually what the super rich do. And those golf course are not your local city courses, but major world known ones such as Turnberry, which some years hosts the British Open Championship of Golf. He also owns Doral in Florida I think.

So he said something which turned out to be false. :P

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And the ahca would kick 24million people off insurance and give the wealthiest of Americans a $50,000 + tax break.... how his that in anyway better for Americans or America? If you agree, why are you arguing?

It is also good to keep in mind some of those listed as having insurance is a bit like saying I have car insurance, but if I have a wreck, it is going to cost me $5000 in a deductible before I can get it fixed. I only benefit if I total the car. And even then, I am out the 5000 which was not covered. :P Those deductibles keep on going up too.

[Zan15]

He is rich enough to hire others to manage them. That is usually what the super rich do. And those golf course are not your local city courses, but major world known ones such as Turnberry, which some years hosts the British Open Championship of Golf. He also owns Doral in Florida I think.

So he said something which turned out to be false. :P

I agree the man is smart enough to hire the right people whom actually know what they are doing to run some of his orignizations that his input is basically where to put his name. But he has also made just as many poor decisions. he has also had a few of his golf courses go bankrupt as well.



No Obama said something that was true, and other people/companies/organizations made the choice to change. Again the law did not force these things, and they did not prevent them. Poorly worded, yes. Untrue, No.

i kept my doctor, i kept my plan with additions from the law, my doctor remains in my network. the vast majority of people got to do so. But i guess you have to blame someone instead of your doctor for bailing.

[Glnger]

So he said something which turned out to be false. :P

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It is also good to keep in mind some of those listed as having insurance is a bit like saying I have car insurance, but if I have a wreck, it is going to cost me $5000 in a deductible before I can get it fixed. I only benefit if I total the car. And even then, I am out the 5000 which was not covered. :P Those deductibles keep on going up too.

Literally the exact opposite dude. The ACA is what made it so insurance companies could no longer sell you a "car without an engine" type insurance. That's what made the rates go up, that people got so upset about. Because (before the ACA) they were paying for plans without dental or vision or so many other things that people didn't realize until something catastrophic needed covering and you'd see people in the movie "John Q" situations where They blow through all of their savings, sell their home, sell any savings for their children's future and still end up bankrupt or even worse dead, and it doesn't need to be said anymore: THIS IS NOT HYPERBOLE, THIS WILL RUIN PEOPLES LIVES AND LIVELIHOOD.

At this point doing anything that isn't moving in the direction of single-payer is D.O.A. to any Republican OR Democrat in a remotely purple county, when they have to go back home and stand up in those town halls they are getting eviscerated.

(We really gotta get "John Q " going more on tv ahead of these ACA replacement votes!)

[BrerBear]

No one knew healthcare could be so complicated! He's not a details guy!

These dupes just so desperately cling to the belief that Trump is not a lying bullshitter that they still believe he has a plan...
...that's so great and wonderful
...but no one has seen
...and for some reason he isn't showing anyone now, when it's actually needed
...and that Trump developed his plan before he found out that healthcare was complicated

This is why Trump gets away with this shit. His has so many followers who will suffer so much cognitive dissonance to not admit they're backing a con artist.

[Deleted]

Yes but these countries also are not 10 trillion in debt...... And raising taxes is the reason.. People talk about like how sweden is one of the richest countries in the world yeah with a 59% tax rate. Americans would riot in the street burn down the capitol and commit anarchy before they paid that while on the other hand going wow why can't we be like those countries

The problem with your argument is that we pay far less per person for the services we receive. So you'd actually be better off financially socializing your health care system.

[Glnger]

These dupes just so desperately cling to the belief that Trump is not a lying bullshitter that they still believe he has a plan...
...that's so great and wonderful
...but no one has seen
...and for some reason he isn't showing anyone now, when it's actually needed
...and that Trump developed his plan before he found out that healthcare was complicated

This is why Trump gets away with this shit. His has so many followers who will suffer so much cognitive dissonance to not admit they're backing a con artist.

I know it's "taboo" to compare Trump to Hitler, but the German people idealized Hitler too, thought of him as a "man of the people", ignored and rationalized all the massive expenditures he did on his own behalf while most of the German people were struggling, and surviving on bread while Hitler himself lived in luxury. It's cult personality and savior complex, and eventually Stockholm syndrome in the end. Same with Japan at the time too