Look how great Odynn is! (warrior hall Odyn lore)

[Friendlyimmolation]

Allow me to elaborate....

Odyn is a 'God" Amoungst The Valajar.

That doesn't make him a god in general.

A God is a Divine being.

Odyn is Divine in terms of the Valajar rank.

But, amoungst the rest, he isn't.

"I guess telling your adoptive father that what hes doing is batshit crazy makes you deserved to be murdered." No. Not at all. Again, AS I FUCKING SAID (Repeat me when I say) Odyn did HORRIBLE Things, he's not a fucking innocent.

However, that helya did BACK at him was even worse....

Want me to say it a second time?

Uh hate you break it to you, but your not nearly as coherent with the points you try to make as you think you are. There was no way to tell that

However, that helya did BACK at him was even worse....

is what you meant by

Odyn isn't innocent, but Helya deserved what she got.

Because it looked like you were saying she deserved to be killed by Odyn.

Want me to say it a second time?

Once more with feeling.

[Qualia]

So as long as there's no war going on, i can backstab, kill and murder any of my potential opponents and still call myself valorous?

Let's add a "of my people / organization / planet" behind the "potential opponents" bit because that'd be closer to the Odyn-Skovald situation. Odyn wasn't ordering death to Skovald family because they were potential threat to Odyn himself, but because they were potential threat to Azeroth. While the result would be the same (a threat to Azeroth would end up being a threat to Odyn assuming he sticks to his job), the intentions are completely different.

With that bit added, the act of murdering any potential opponents of your planet while not being in a war, a battle, in any kind of on-going conflict with them or having them posing any threat to yourself only does not make your valorous. It doesn't prevent / stop you from being valorous either, though. So to answer your scenario's question - yes, if you were a valorous warrior / soldier before, you'd still be one after committing that act. If you weren't, then you wouldn't become one.

Well considering what kind of an ass he is it isn't that surprising that the other Watchers stopped following him

They are following him again, though. At least Thorim and Hodir do.

[Maxilian]

Newer Lore beats old one. I would assume this stories the true Story of Odyn.

But i don't think they will go against Chronicles so fast, also the fact that it points out that its a story that came out of Odyn's mouth make it a little more questionable.

- - - Updated - - -

This means all Undeads hate the living. Which makes them evil.

Thank you, Sir.

OK! YOU ARE RIGHT! HAPPY?!

Now stop trying to derail the thread

[Arrashi]

He has become such a bastard, he actually starts growing on me.

He has good ideas but zero class. 3/10.

[Deleted]

And you have never heard of the "unreliable narrator" trope.

The Vrykul Culture believes that this stories are true. Saying that they are a case of unreliable narrator is like claiming that real holy books are not 100% true.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It is propaganda of course, but it does help Odyn's character development.

And even if there are some lies sewn in those lines, there is some truth in them too. For one, Odyn was ultimately right about the Dragon Aspects. Their existence have done more harm than good.

My take on Odyn is that he is generally a good-hearted fellow who genuinely cares about Azeroth and its denizen, but who is flawed by stubborness and vanity.

Not really, nobody really expected the aspects to be corrupted

[Friendlyimmolation]

The Vrykul Culture believes that this stories are true. Saying that they are a case of unreliable narrator is like claiming that real holy books are not 100% true.

Fuck, that's a whole other shit storm you are dredging up. And you would still be wrong, because belief doesn't make something true.

[Combatbutler]

He has good ideas but zero class. 3/10.

Don't forget the burning beard bonus ;P

[Deleted]

Not really, nobody really expected the aspects to be corrupted

According to the stories, Odyn did. And even if he didn't, the Dragons did never something useful in their whole existence. Most of the time we fight them or have to safe their asses. Like, Alexstrasza is propably the most incompetent of them all. Who where she during the whole existence of the Scourge, when the life itself was treatened?

[Arrashi]

Don't forget the burning beard bonus ;P

It makes his head look like those lava lamps from 80's. And i don't even want to think about other hairy areas.

[Kralljin]

Let's add a "of my people / organization / planet" behind the "potential opponents" bit because that'd be closer to the Odyn-Skovald situation. Odyn wasn't ordering death to Skovald family because they were potential threat to Odyn himself, but because they were potential threat to Azeroth. While the result would be the same (a threat to Azeroth would end up being a threat to Odyn assuming he sticks to his job), the intentions are completely different.

Problem with ideals is that you're supposed to stick to them even in difficult situations.

The irony is that this wasn't even a difficult situation, it's not like Torvald / Sirgryn were about to take over the Tideskorn, they were murdered to be out of way, "just in case".

But anyway, if you think that you can murder 3 innocent people and still call yourself valorous, then that's your opinion, argument is going circles so no point in discussing it further.

Personally i find this incident yet another hilarious part of Odyn's story.

[Wildmoon]

According to the stories, Odyn did. And even if he didn't, the Dragons did never something useful in their whole existence. Most of the time we fight them or have to safe their asses. Like, Alexstrasza is propably the most incompetent of them all. Who where she during the whole existence of the Scourge, when the life itself was treatened?

Just because you did not see them doing something does not mean they did not do anything. Ysera and her flight monitored and guarded the emerald dream. That was their duty. The same was true for Nozdormu. Not every being has to act to every threat the world faces. The Lich King was not a threat that could not be handled by mortals. Alextrasza fought in WotA and her flight fought against the avartar of Sargeras. She fought against the nightmare too in Stormrage.

[Deleted]

Problem with ideals is that you're supposed to stick to them even in difficult situations.

The irony is that this wasn't even a difficult situation, it's not like Torvald / Sirgryn were about to take over the Tideskorn, they were murdered to be out of way, "just in case".

But anyway, if you think that you can murder 3 innocent people and still call yourself valorous, then that's your opinion, argument is going circles so no point in discussing it further.

The Orcs murder innocent people all the time and call themselves honorable.

[Wilfire]

The Halls of Valor will one day close. Its gates barred, its heroes spurned.
A champion will rise and break them free.
The champion's face is hidden; their name is cloaked. What power will this creature hold?
It will arise in time. It will save us all.
It will ensure that Odyn's refuge will stand.

Player character hype hype hype

The vrykul fought as one. They pried back Ysildar's iron-like scales and stabbed at its flesh. They took out its eyes and blunted its fangs. Yet Ysildar was no ordinary monster, and even the vrykul could not vanquish it for good. So Odyn hurried to the tip of the serpent's tail. No vrykul had traveled so far. Alone, Odyn took on his true form, seized Ysildar's tail, and with a mighty swing, hurled the beast skyward. The serpent flew so high that it passed across the sun and made day into night. It sailed over mountains and rivers, over forests and swamps. Some days later, it landed in the sea and sank into the cold depths.

The crooked serpent with no eyes hype hype hype

[Toppy]

Well considering what kind of an ass he is it isn't that surprising that the other Watchers stopped following him

But they cant stop sucking his dick in Legion. Hell Thorim exclaims "By Odyn's beard!" to show surprise.

[Deleted]

So in 7.2 there are some scrolls you can find that have lore regarding Odyn and the Vrykul. They arent all in game yet, but you can read them all on wowhead.

http://www.wowhead.com/object=248980/the-legend-of-odyn

http://www.wowhead.com/object=248981...avored-of-odyn

Interesting to note that apparently Helya was the one who struck out at Odyn first.

Haven't looked at these scrolls yet, but I never understood why people were giving Odyn so much shit. He asked for someone to step up and become a Val'kyr because they needed Val'kyr to raise their fallen soldiers. No one wanted to so he had to make someone. It's like a teacher picking a student to do a task when no one is volunteering. What you're not gonna do everything you can to help us fight the Legion? The Titans created you for the specific purpose of guarding Azeroth, and you don't wanna? You're a shitty Titan Keeper.

[Deleted]

Haven't looked at these scrolls yet, but I never understood why people were giving Odyn so much shit. He asked for someone to step up and become a Val'kyr because they needed Val'kyr to raise their fallen soldiers. No one wanted to so he had to make someone. It's like a teacher picking a student to do a task when no one is volunteering. What you're not gonna do everything you can to help us fight the Legion? The Titans created you for the specific purpose of guarding Azeroth, and you don't wanna? You're a shitty Titan Keeper.

I think it's more because Helya seemed to get along with Sylvanas and people are fangirling Sylvanas hear for the same reason people liked Emo.

[Morgaith]

Interesting to note that apparently Helya was the one who struck out at Odyn first.[/spoiler]

This feels like another han solo moment.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Haven't looked at these scrolls yet, but I never understood why people were giving Odyn so much shit. He asked for someone to step up and become a Val'kyr because they needed Val'kyr to raise their fallen soldiers. No one wanted to so he had to make someone. It's like a teacher picking a student to do a task when no one is volunteering. What you're not gonna do everything you can to help us fight the Legion? The Titans created you for the specific purpose of guarding Azeroth, and you don't wanna? You're a shitty Titan Keeper.

I suggest reading the Chronicle. Odyn was a shitty Titan keeper because he was angry the titans chose the Dragons over him, so he wanted his own private army. He wanted his undead valajar and the Vrykul refused. Helya said he was acting crazy and would bring his palace back out of the clouds to rejoin Ulduar if he did, so he killed her, turned in her into a val'kyr and then mentally forced her to kill and raise other vry'kul in to Val'kyr. It was only after her free will was returned to her by Loken that she was able to attack Odyn. So Odyn is a shitty Titan keeper because he created problems and they all bit him in the ass.

[Frontenac]

Just because you did not see them doing something does not mean they did not do anything. Ysera and her flight monitored and guarded the emerald dream. That was their duty. The same was true for Nozdormu. Not every being has to act to every threat the world faces. The Lich King was not a threat that could not be handled by mortals. Alextrasza fought in WotA and her flight fought against the avartar of Sargeras. She fought against the nightmare too in Stormrage.

Imagine the Keepers did not empower the Dragon Aspect. No Neltharion, no Deathwing, no Demon Soul, no Cataclysm, no Hour of Twilight. No Demon Soul, Malygos does not become mad, no Nexus War. Add to that that the Blues did a terrible job at protecting magic. Red Krasus did far better all by himself... No Day of Twilight, no Murozond, no Infinite Dragonflight and temporal tempering. Many things the Dragon Aspect did was to stop problems one of them had started in the first place. And they were not the most eager to help when they were needed... The Aspect spent all their powers to stop the Hour of Twilight who would not have been possible without Deathwing... And Alexstrasza said that they served the purpose the Titans gave them... It's Ouroboros! It's the dragon who bites its own tail!