Redesign Unstable Magic

[metroidgirl]

Was curious the community's comment on a possible redesign to Unstable Magic.

There have been a lot of comments on how Ignite could be improved in single-target situations. There's also a very dramatic difference in power between Unstable Magic and Living Bomb. Folks have argued that we cannot have both AoE and ST in the same build (which seems somewhat in line with the design of talents in this tier).

Perhaps UM could be redesigned so that Ignite's damage is increased, but that it no longer spreads to other enemies. This would improve mastery as a stat (it's lagging pretty far behind right now for ST) without simultaneously improving its value in situations with many adds.

Another option would be that Fireball gives a stacking debuff that gives Ignite a percent chance to do more damage. That way, Ignite wouldn't require a functional redesign and we wouldn't be punished in low-add Cleave situations.

Thoughts?

[Torian kel]

Oh how I have thought about redesigning fire's talents while bored at work. My take on unstable magic would be something like this :

- Unstable Magic : Your spells have a chance of duplicating (50% lets say) for 10% damage, exploding in a 15 yard radius around your target.

This would fit the name, literally unstable magic, while being a decent talent in ST and passive aoe.


Their are so many possible ways of redesigning the garbage talents of fire, keeping the "class fantasy" yet helping out our pitiful damage, but it seems like way to much work for blizzard unfortunately.

[ramenkoenig]

What I want in this row is a strong ST talent, not another bad AoE one.

[metroidgirl]

What I want in this row is a strong ST talent, not another bad AoE one.

That's the idea, make it so it's not AoE at all. Instead, it would increase damage from Ignite but only on a target you're constantly casting on (that's my suggestion).

[gallamann]

It could be a great talent for fire ST if the made it 100% chance to explode for 25% damage (no AoE).

However doubt it happens as they have UM set up to work for all 3 specs.

[nukie]

This might be a little tricky because I'd bet they see UM is a an "aoe" talent with some fireball damage spreading to other mobs (a very bad one) and so i dont know if they would introduce a ST talent in this row.

It makes the most sense though to have to pick between LB (the reason any of our aoe is good) and a ST talent option.

If you want to go the fireball route, subject to tuning, i think UM should increase the damage of fireball by 50%. If they want to stick to rng it can have a 50% chance to do double damage. Or simply a 100% chance to do do 50% more damage.

However I'm not convinced that buffing fireball is the way to go, because the closer fireball damage gets to pyro in damage, the more the value of pyro gets skewed. fireball damage is such a small part of your damage anyway it would have to be a huge buff (hence 50%, maybe more? to come up with the numbers we need).

UM can buff Ignite + stop its spread alternatively.

I dont know what the right answer is for buffing UM, but i do agree a large chunk of our ST buff should come from UM so we have to choose between LB aoe and ST damage.

[metroidgirl]

Good point on class fantasy. Maybe UM could be removed from Fire altogether and replaced. Here's a suggestion:

Backdraft (replaces Unstable Magic)

"Your Ignite becomes more volatile, no longer spreading to other targets but instead has a 25% chance to do flare up and cause double damage to the target and enemies within 10 yards."

I think most users would agree that LB and FP are both very strong mult-target and UM is exceedingly weak in all comparable situations. This would be a good compromise as a "set it and forget it" priority target with still a hint of AoE type of talent. It would be especially strong during Combustion which supports the current playstyle very well and improve the value of Pyrotex and Kindling.

Ice Floes used to be in all specs but they made it frost-only, so I don't see any reason they couldn't do a redesign for fire for UM.

[Schmeebs]

Good point on class fantasy. Maybe UM could be removed from Fire altogether and replaced. Here's a suggestion:

Backdraft (replaces Unstable Magic)

"Your Ignite becomes more volatile, no longer spreading to other targets but instead has a 25% chance to do flare up and cause double damage to the target and enemies within 10 yards."

I think most users would agree that LB and FP are both very strong mult-target and UM is exceedingly weak in all comparable situations. This would be a good compromise as a "set it and forget it" priority target with still a hint of AoE type of talent. It would be especially strong during Combustion which supports the current playstyle very well and improve the value of Pyrotex and Kindling.

Ice Floes used to be in all specs but they made it frost-only, so I don't see any reason they couldn't do a redesign for fire for UM.

I think warlocks would riot if we stole another one of their spells/abilities names again.

[Manabomb]

That's the idea, make it so it's not AoE at all. Instead, it would increase damage from Ignite but only on a target you're constantly casting on (that's my suggestion).

Here's an idea, just make it a multi-strike talent for us.

Goes hand in hand with our crit scaling and makes it the "single target" for sure talent of the tier, while also making our ST damage not pitiful in exchange for great AoE (on the same tier as LB and flame patch).

[Magictricks]

you guys are all cucked so hard you can't think up a talent without it having some sort of drawback, fucking hell.

why can't it just be your ignite deals double damage and ticks every second?, like whats wrong with that?, it wouldn't be better then LB on large numbers but be more of a 3 target cleave type thing that UM was meant to be.

Stop inventing talents with some sort of downside, only faggot mages think like that.

[metroidgirl]

you guys are all cucked so hard you can't think up a talent without it having some sort of drawback, fucking hell.

why can't it just be your ignite deals double damage and ticks every second?, like whats wrong with that?, it wouldn't be better then LB on large numbers but be more of a 3 target cleave type thing that UM was meant to be.

Stop inventing talents with some sort of downside, only xxx mages think like that.

Mastery is hilariously overvalued for many-target situations, and Living Bomb is already a strong AoE talent for this row. We can justify a bigger boost (to ST damage in this case) if the AoE component is lessened. Otherwise, our scaling in multi-target situations will undoubtedly get nerfed in other areas.

[Magictricks]

That row is the AOE row, if you had been paying attention you'd know they said that each row has passive and active traits but essentially do the same thing.

Damage boost row, aoe row, buff ability row, movement row.


yes but mastery is only good when your ignite it can tick for ages like on triliax or elisand, but for every other fight the adds dont live long enough and LB would beat it out.

And like i said, cucked.

[metroidgirl]

That row is the AOE row, if you had been paying attention you'd know they said that each row has passive and active traits but essentially do the same thing.

Damage boost row, aoe row, buff ability row, movement row.


yes but mastery is only good when your ignite it can tick for ages like on triliax or elisand, but for every other fight the adds dont live long enough and LB would beat it out.

And like i said, cucked.

This is fundamentally false. The first row of fire is a good example. You wouldn't choose pyromaniac over conflagration; pyromaniac is for ST situations. Sure, it may APPLY in AoE situations, but it's not designed for it. There are trends to be sure, but to say outright that a ST talent cannot exist in the same row as an AoE talent is wrong.

Unstable Magic is a very poor contributor to AoE. This talent is only chosen as the default for ST situations. If you want passive AoE, you should be choosing Flame Patch.

I chose UM because I think fire in general has poor ST contribution talents, and this also happens to be a very weak AoE talent.

[Schmeebs]

This is fundamentally false. The first row of fire is a good example. You wouldn't choose pyromaniac over conflagration; pyromaniac is for ST situations. Sure, it may APPLY in AoE situations, but it's not designed for it. There are trends to be sure, but to say outright that a ST talent cannot exist in the same row as an AoE talent is wrong.

Pyromaniac isn't a ST talent, its a bad talent.

[Torian kel]

Pyromaniac isn't a ST talent, its a bad talent.

To be precise, it's a bad talent because it's badly designed, if it was "Makes your pyroblasts hit 50% harder" it would be an awesome talent. That's why a severe redesign of most of fire's talents is critically needed

[Deleted]

Yes. it would be a nice way to make a ST talent upgrade for fire with no effect on AOE, but you should then redesign it for other spec.
UM : "there is X% chance that your fireball exploses on impact ans deals Y% extra damages to the target. extra damages does not trigger ignite".
X and Y should be set to make something like 5 to 10 % dps increase on ST, that 's all.

But this will never happen anyway.

If Fire had a ST dps equivalent to arcane/frost, then everybody would play fire because of mobility and AOE capabilities.

[metroidgirl]

Yes. it would be a nice way to make a ST talent upgrade for fire with no effect on AOE, but you should then redesign it for other spec.
UM : "there is X% chance that your fireball exploses on impact ans deals Y% extra damages to the target. extra damages does not trigger ignite".
X and Y should be set to make something like 5 to 10 % dps increase on ST, that 's all.

But this will never happen anyway.

If Fire had a ST dps equivalent to arcane/frost, then everybody would play fire because of mobility and AOE capabilities.

I personally play fire due to the playstyle. I think a lot of folks like the flavor of different styles and just want them to be competitive. ST DPS > AoE as they say.

My guild finally killed Mythic Krosus and I was just under 500k DPS even with the bracers. Mind you, I got targeted by 5 orbs, I'm ilvl 903 and still have a bit of fine-tuning to do for that fight (I always get nervous on progression), but it was still really painful to be so far behind everyone else despite playing this class for years and spending hours trying to formulate and practice with the right build.

[Deleted]

I personally play fire due to the playstyle. I think a lot of folks like the flavor of different styles and just want them to be competitive. ST DPS > AoE as they say.

My guild finally killed Mythic Krosus and I was just under 500k DPS even with the bracers. Mind you, I got targeted by 5 orbs, I'm ilvl 903 and still have a bit of fine-tuning to do for that fight (I always get nervous on progression), but it was still really painful to be so far behind everyone else despite playing this class for years and spending hours trying to formulate and practice with the right build.

even with all these orbs, a frost mage would do something like 680/700 k dps with your ilvl.
Fire is really garbage on ST.

[metroidgirl]

Fire is really garbage on ST.

I think this is the main issue here. I think most folks playing fire understand it's not fair to be the best at both AoE and ST, but ST is more relevant than AoE in most cases which makes it a weaker playstyle overall.

Also, there's an enormous spread on MKrosus right now for ilvl 902-904 (~620-800k). Nearly a 30% difference from top to bottom seems extreme.

Edit: Holy crap there's a huge spread on most of the bosses, guess I hadn't taken the time to check it...

[Elboba]

Just wouldn't want another % Chance talent.
But blizzard love that kinda deal

A % chance to make instant cast (as to not OP the bracers) - Pyroblast cling to the target and do extra damage, (even if it used the hot streak animation)
Something reliable would be great, like a talent that makes phoenix flames continue to swoop for X more attacks at X% damage each