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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    No one ever said more Old Gods wouldn't appear.

    There is a chance for new ones, because honestly with only N'zoth left... the Void is starting out with a light bench.
    I didn't mean to exclude that option, but good point.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    No one ever said more Old Gods wouldn't appear.

    There is a chance for new ones, because honestly with only N'zoth left... the Void is starting out with a light bench.
    My memory may be hazy but I don't think old gods are unique to Azeroth, in SMV(outlands) aren't there a group of Arrakoa trying to summon an Old god.

  3. #23
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Rampant Rabbit View Post
    I didn't mean to exclude that option, but good point.
    I've been suggesting for awhile a possible Old God flying to our planet and imbedding itself to Azeroth.
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  4. #24
    Possibilites are endless, however we aren't given new clues yet so it's early to discuss this again yet.

  5. #25
    The Patient vondevon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Old God speculation is best speculation, and while Il'gynoth may not be saying the whole truth, there's enough there that jives with current events that it's worth paying attention to. Even if its all lies, enough lies can give you the shape of a truth, by looking where the lies aren't. My thoughts:

    ...

    In light of Il'gynoth's dying's quote (N'Zoth... I journey... to Ny'alotha...), the Sleeping City's true nature is even more mysterious. Is it some kind of afterlife for Old God/Void entities? Is it a realm of the dead in the Shadowlands? If it's an ancient Old God temple or city that's simply been buried beneath the surface/sea, why would Il'gynoth be 'journeying' there upon death? Did N'Zoth create him through the Nightmare and then somehow reclaim him upon his destruction? Who knows!
    Xal'atath calls Il'Gynoth "a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world". The way Old Gods spread reminds me of asexual plant propagation via their roots. The parent (N'Zoth) spreads tendrils through the earth, and from these tendrils grow little bulbs (Il'Gynoth) which, if severed from the parent, can live and grow on their own. These 'new' plants are, nonetheless, clones or extensions of the original. Returning to Ny'alotha probably means returning to the source. Also I just want to note something: N'Zoth, Il'Gynoth, and Ny'alotha all sound very, very similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Wrathion's absence though is indeed conspicuous. The last time he appeared in lore he was dealing with the Infinite Dragonflight - their previous big plan seemed to be to set up some kind of 'false End Times' that ended up with Deathwing and Azeroth pretty much dead, in order to avoid the 'true End Times'. I suspect that true End Times would be the corruption of Azeroth and the victory of the Void over the universe. Whether that means the Infinites are opposed to the Void or pawns of the Void I don't know, but their agenda turned them from defenders of Azeroth to enemies of Azeroth and largely led to their destruction, just like Deathwing - classic Old God move.
    And yet the Infinite Dragonflight was created by the Old God-corrupted Murozond, who was convinced that he could save Azeroth and prevent his own death by purging Azeroth of life. The OGs are great at playing both sides.
    Last edited by vondevon; 2017-04-25 at 09:28 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Yus, though I still don't see how they'll play into N'Zoth's release. They were used by the Titanforged to shape the world in the past, presumably they could be used to shape it again. Perhaps this would release N'Zoth somehow. Odyn is on his way to Ulduar to reconnect with his fellow Titanforged keepers, and we've seen a lot of signs in Odyn's history that he's kind've a dick, so possibly he'll make a play for the Pillars later and wind up screwing things up for everyone.
    Well the entire point of finding them was to seal the Tomb as the Night Elves did during the War of the Ancients. And we also know that during WotA Old Gods tried to use the Dragon Soul to redirect the portal meant for Sargeras at the Well of Eternity to open their prisons instead. Maybe their play is to redirect the ToS portal when we try to seal it with the Pillars. And since you mentioned Odyn, could he be the lord of ravens?

  7. #27
    Am I the only one who notices people keep forgetting Sylvanas has died three times, not twice?

    1 - Against Arthas
    2 - At the end of WOTLK
    3 - At the end of Silverpine Forest.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    And yet the Infinite Dragonflight was created by the Old God-corrupted Murozond, who was convinced that he could save Azeroth and prevent his own death by purging Azeroth of life. The OGs are great at playing both sides.
    While the Infinite Dragonflight is most certainly a topic that deserves some light, i think one of their goals was to make the End time we've seen happen, simply because there's an even worse fate coming for us, Murozond called the "End Time" a blessing.

    So the Hour of Twilight ushered by Deathwing might be shit compared to what is to come.

    Might not even be that wrong, Azeroth is still there, if the Old Gods truly suceeded then all realities would've been destroyed / devoured by the void lords the corrupted Azeroth titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephre View Post
    1 - Against Arthas
    2 - At the end of WOTLK
    3 - At the end of Silverpine Forest.
    I think most people are aware of that, it' simply the fact that currently there's no major female character that died twice so far.

    Most people take Sylvanas and bend the truth by saying that her Undead self died twice so far, i mean from a certain POV that's not too farfetched, if you consider her "undead life" she was brought back to it twice so far.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2017-04-25 at 09:39 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephre View Post
    Am I the only one who notices people keep forgetting Sylvanas has died three times, not twice?

    1 - Against Arthas
    2 - At the end of WOTLK
    3 - At the end of Silverpine Forest.
    People are forgetting that Elisande is the reference of Il'gynoth.
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  10. #30
    The Patient vondevon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    No one ever said more Old Gods wouldn't appear.

    There is a chance for new ones, because honestly with only N'zoth left... the Void is starting out with a light bench.
    The most likely location of Ny'alotha means that there's a good chance our buddy N'Zoth has been leeching straight from the open wound which created the Well of Eternity. And with his brothers all long-dead, he has been free to consume whatever power they left in their wake. I don't think we need more than one anymore.

    Il'Gynoth's existence shows us that OGs are capable of putting out tendrils which 'bud' into 'new' entities with massive power.

  11. #31
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    As was said before, she only dies once. She rewinds time before her death, starting the next phase. So she's out as a possible candidate, on account of insufficient deaths.

    Another option would be Azeroth. Y'Shaarj's removal, the destruction of the Well of Eternity, and some event yet to happen(or be revealed, at least). Maybe the Cataclysm was worse than we thought.
    Eh, pretty close. If Elisande doesn't count, I wouldn't count Azeroth either, who hasn't even died once. She's been wounded at worse. I think all the injuries may have affected her in other ways, but not death. Death wouldn't open the way for the Old Gods/Void Lords anyway, since they want her alive to corrupt.

    Neither of them would be my first choice though, Sylvanas would be. First death to Arthas, second major death at Icecrown Citadel where she tried to kill herself and was revived by Val'kyr. I know she was also revived again during Cataclysm, but I don't count that, it could be portrayed as the val'kyr preventing her from a true death.

    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    Xal'atath calls Il'Gynoth "a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world". The way Old Gods spread reminds me of asexual plant propagation via their roots. The parent (N'Zoth) spreads tendrils through the earth, and from these tendrils grow little bulbs (Il'Gynoth) which, if severed from the parent, can live and grow on their own. These 'new' plants are, nonetheless, clones or extensions of the original. Returning to Ny'alotha probably means returning to the source. Also I just want to note something: N'Zoth, Il'Gynoth, and Ny'alotha all sound very, very similar.
    Could be!

    And yet the Infinite Dragonflight was created by the Old God-corrupted Murozond, who was convinced that he could save Azeroth and prevent his own death by purging Azeroth of life. The OGs are great at playing both sides.
    Was it revealed anywhere that Murozond was specifically Old God corrupted? I don't recall if the source was ever revealed, although considering Deathwing and Malygos I wouldn't be at all surprised. And that would feed in with the Old God's efforts to hamstring the Titans greatest weapon against them, turning them against Azeroth and letting Azeroth's defenders take them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by CthulhuFhtagn View Post
    Well the entire point of finding them was to seal the Tomb as the Night Elves did during the War of the Ancients. And we also know that during WotA Old Gods tried to use the Dragon Soul to redirect the portal meant for Sargeras at the Well of Eternity to open their prisons instead. Maybe their play is to redirect the ToS portal when we try to seal it with the Pillars. And since you mentioned Odyn, could he be the lord of ravens?
    Ooo, good point, forgot that. Yeah, he's got ravens. He's 'lordly'. Could be he tries to take possession of the pillars and is manipulated into unleashing N'Zoth somehow.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Ooo, good point, forgot that. Yeah, he's got ravens. He's 'lordly'. Could be he tries to take possession of the pillars and is manipulated into unleashing N'Zoth somehow.
    And he certainly has a history of poor decisions when blinded by his pride and conviction that he knows best.

  13. #33
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CthulhuFhtagn View Post
    And he certainly has a history of poor decisions when blinded by his pride and conviction that he knows best.
    Oh yeah. Did you see that thread with all the shit's he's done revealed in 7.2?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    Or is this Thrall, the new Earth Warden who has been troubled as of late because the elements no longer answer him? Has he turned to a new source of power?
    Just wanted to touch base on the whole Thrall idea here.

    Firstly, a correct, it's not "Earth Warden", but Earth Warder. A warden guards, a warder protects. Which is why this was Neltharion's task before his corruption.

    Secondly, Thrall is not the "new" Earth Warder. His purpose in Cataclysm was merely to stand in for Neltharion. It was a temporary role, and one that has long since been fulfilled.

    Lastly, and this is just from a corporate standpoint, we probably will not see the return of Thrall to the active game universe. The whole reason they did what they did in passing the Doomhammer from him to the player shaman was two fold. To give a reason to actually pass the hammer from a story perspective, but they also knew Metzen was on his way out the door when they were finishing up Legion. long before we ever did. It's why he wasn't present for the announcement of Legion or the following Blizzcon, and more importantly why they killed Varian and had Thrall "pass the hammer" so to speak. It was a way to gracefully remove any obligations he might continue to have because of his voice for those two characters.

  15. #35
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istenno View Post
    Just wanted to touch base on the whole Thrall idea here.

    Firstly, a correct, it's not "Earth Warden", but Earth Warder. A warden guards, a warder protects. Which is why this was Neltharion's task before his corruption.

    Secondly, Thrall is not the "new" Earth Warder. His purpose in Cataclysm was merely to stand in for Neltharion. It was a temporary role, and one that has long since been fulfilled.

    Lastly, and this is just from a corporate standpoint, we probably will not see the return of Thrall to the active game universe. The whole reason they did what they did in passing the Doomhammer from him to the player shaman was two fold. To give a reason to actually pass the hammer from a story perspective, but they also knew Metzen was on his way out the door when they were finishing up Legion. long before we ever did. It's why he wasn't present for the announcement of Legion or the following Blizzcon, and more importantly why they killed Varian and had Thrall "pass the hammer" so to speak. It was a way to gracefully remove any obligations he might continue to have because of his voice for those two characters.
    Metzen is still going to voice Thrall, he even said so on Twitter.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    Thrall, the new Earth Warden
    Wait, what???? Since when was Thrall the new Earth Warden? I thought only titans could grant creatures of azeroth the power of Aspects.

  17. #37
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restors View Post
    Wait, what???? Since when was Thrall the new Earth Warden? I thought only titans could grant creatures of azeroth the power of Aspects.
    Many ppl in Cata for some reason thought when Thrall helped the Aspects with the Dragon Soul taking Neltharion's place but it was only temporarily. He didn't literally become the Earthwarder. After Deathwing died, it was over.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Metzen is still going to voice Thrall, he even said so on Twitter.
    Fair enough. I had not seen that yet (did Google to confirm). That said, points one and two still stand.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    Now that we are a bit further into Legion and it appears that we are gearing up for an expansion dealing with the Old Gods, I wanted to take another look at the whispers we got from Il'Gynoth back in EN to see if we have any new understandings of what was being hinted. Here are the whispers:
    [/LIST][/COLOR]
    This is likely the most obvious of them all. It is a reference to the Curse of Flesh which was created by the Old Gods. Although Yogg'Saron is most famous for "gifting" the Titan-Forged wardens of his prison, we know that N'Zoth has the power to warp flesh because he is responsible for turning Azshara and her people into naga. The gift likely originates from The Three (alliance of remaining OGs after Y'Shaarj was destroyed.)[/LIST][/COLOR]
    "Drown yourself" is likely a reference to the sleeping city of Ny'alotha which rests at the bottom of the ocean and is believed to be N'Zoth's prison. "Circle of stars" means nothing to me yet but early speculation pointed towards the city of Suramar. (Suramar, the Tomb of Sargeras, and Zin-Azshari share close proximity to each other and the Well of Eternity. Perhaps these cities form the "circle of stars" and Ny'alotha is at the center.)[/LIST][/COLOR]
    Consensus is that the King of Diamonds is Magni Bronzebeard who now serves as "the Speaker" for Azeroth. The question is the extent to which he is a pawn, and to whom. Some have said this whisper is Old God sass, meant as an insult to Magni and Azeroth. However, I remember reading somewhere that part of what corrupted Neltharion into Deathwing was that he had a hard time distinguishing Azeroth's whispers from the Old Gods, and in some ways he believed he was doing her bidding (I couldn't find the source for this but maybe someone else can?). If Magni is communing with Azeroth in the same way Neltharion once did, he is surely every bit as prone to them as Neltharion was.[/LIST][/COLOR]
    First hearing this led a lot of people to assume Lord Ravencrest but I'm pretty confident that was meant to distract. Another OG whisper from Yogg's Puzzle Box goes "The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow." which sounds to me like a reference to Karazhan and Deadwind Pass. Khadgar has been so relevant since WoD that he seems the most obvious, but the true lord of Karazhan has always been Medivh. Just before the final fight in Upper Kara, a fragment of Medivh appears to open the way. He tells Khadgar that he cannot help against the Legion because he "is needed elsewhere", then turns into a raven and flies off into the Nether. A return doesn't seem impossible.[/LIST][/COLOR]
    The 3 most likely "boy-kings" are Anduin, Wrathion, and Illidan. I do not believe it is Illidan because, although he is referred to as a "child of light and shadow", nowhere is he ever referred to as a king and he has no royal lineage to speak of (his brother is Arch-Druid and not a king). I don't have any way to prove this but "serves at the master's table" implies to me that this service is not exactly willing or not known, so it could be Anduin even though he's such a goodie-goodie. That being said, Old Gods are notoriously vague and deceptive so I'm inclined to avoid the obvious answer. This leaves Wrathion who is a big player but went largely MIA this xpac. His single-minded drive to defeat the Legion will likely lay the red carpet for the Void, and it's always possible that even he was not spared the corruption of his father (or the OGs knew Deathwing might fail and so created a back-up player in the form of his son).[/LIST][/COLOR]
    Again, everyone jumped straight to Jaina (the crater in her heart being her home of Theramore, now a literal crater) and her hate for the Horde at the start of this xpac that prompted her to drop the whole fight against the Legion. Avoiding easy answers, this could also be referring to Sylvanas or perhaps Azeroth herself. Personally, I really hope it isn't Sylvanas because a) I love her, and b) we already had a corrupt Horde leader only 2 xpacs ago, like give it a rest. Azeroth fits because the crater would be the Well of Eternity which filled with her Titan blood, and N'Zoth's relative location to it could mean that he's been drinking it in this whole time.[/LIST][/COLOR]
    Obvs the 5 Pillars of Creation[/LIST][/COLOR]
    If you believe the "heart is a crater" whisper refers to Sylvanas, then you could argue that this whisper has something to do with her too. Her first death was becoming a Banshee at the hands of Arthas. Her second was suicide at the end of WotLK, whereupon seeing only shadow, she instead chose to bond with the Val'kyr and return to the Forsaken. Her third death might finally explain the deal she made with Helya, who had ties to N'Zoth.

    Others have expressed that this might be referring again to Azeroth herself. This is, afterall, the 3rd invasion of the Burning Legion. Perhaps it's that simple.[/LIST][/COLOR]
    Every reference to Azeroth is "she" so this one clearly isn't her. Is this Magni communing with what he thinks is Azeroth? Is this Wrathion, son of the old Earth Warden? Or is this Thrall, the new Earth Warden who has been troubled as of late because the elements no longer answer him? Has he turned to a new source of power?[/LIST][/COLOR]
    This sounds like the Well of Eternity, although it now exists as the Maelstrom which is anything but bright. Perhaps the Nightwell or Sunwell, if either of those are still around. What other fonts of power still exist in Azeroth?
    Oh yeah real fresh with another fucking thread about this where you're blatantly misunderstanding the hints and passing it off like you know jack.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    For the last time, this is reference to Elisande.
    So... what did happen? It's says at the hour of her third death, which means shortly after/at the same time.

    Nothing happened.

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