Ted Cruz introduces the El Chapo Act

[Machismo]

Jeez, the false equivalency never stops around here, does it?

If NK were strong enough to get what they wanted ( they're not, we could glass them fast) then they would deserve to have it.

And don't think I missed that cute reference to Hitler a little back. You know how I know he was wrong?

He lost.

Jesus, now you are justifying the actions of ISIS. Nice one, keep it up. You conservative authoritarians are all the same.

[Barnabas]

It's not "only Mexico". It's pretty much the entire developed world, who are not going to take it lightly when the USA commits an act of aggression against not just a sovereign nation, but a close ally.

I don't think you are aware that the US army participates in the war on drugs in mexico. It's mostly "harvesting" type missions which basically involves taking cash, drugs, cars etc working along side the mexican army. It's a whole lot different than an invasion. Cruz just wants to set those funds to be spent on border security. Who cares? No need to be dramatic.

[Berengil]

You aren't talking about "your own back yard". You're explicitly talking about someone else's.



Not "someone". The developed world. Collectively. This is literally why we have the United Nations, because we saw how a superpower getting belligerent can lead to atrocious horrors, in World War II. This is exactly why that system exists.

Even if the opposition wasn't military, it would absolutely be economic and diplomatic.



[/U]Again, not your backyard. Ohio is your backyard. Not Mexico. That's Mexico's yard.

And you're just objectively wrong when you call them terrorists. Being obstinate about it isn't an argument. They aren't terrorists, and using that word as an appeal to emotions is just suggests you know how unconvincing your argument is on its own merits.



Of course they don't.

What you don't understand is, the USA would be the one starting it.

Central America is the US's backyard. Like it or not.

And, starting it, you say? Only if someone from outside the hemisphere were stupid enough to try to do something about it. The pointless debating society called the UN would bitch, and pass resolutions, and have anything in the SC veto'ed by the US, and life would go on.

[triplesdsu]

See above. Legalizing drugs is a fools' dream and something society as a whole should do everything to avoid.

I'm not interested in the free market taking over the drug trade from the cartels because the end result is still the same.

You don't know very many conservatives then, because you equate them with the kind of Establishment stupidity we see out of Skroe and the other 'conservatives' around here and elsewhere.

Legalizing crack, meth, pcp, etc is a terrible idea. Not only would it not get rid of cartels/gangs (theyll find other ways of making money), there are the terrible effects this drugs have on people. So either you're selling this poison in rite-aid or there will be an illegal market for a decriminalized product. No problem solved.

[Endus]

I don't think you are aware that the US army participates in the war on drugs in mexico. It's mostly "harvesting" type missions which basically involves taking cash, drugs, cars etc working along side the mexican army. It's a whole lot different than an invasion. Cruz just wants to set those funds to be spent on border security. Who cares?

I'm not talking about cooperative efforts. I was specifically talking about Berengil's suggestion in this post that the USA just start pre-emptively droning sovereign nations, regardless of their permission or cooperation.

If we're just talking about the Act, here, I think it's silly; the monies have already been seized, right? So all the Act does is ensure they're spent on border security? That seems unnecessarily restrictive. What if border security doesn't need more funding, in the future? Why limit your options that way?

[Berengil]

Jesus, now you are justifying the actions of ISIS.

No, because they're losing. /headdesk

[Barnabas]

I'm not talking about cooperative efforts. I was specifically talking about Berengil's suggestion in this post that the USA just start pre-emptively droning sovereign nations, regardless of their permission or cooperation.

Well yeah that isn't how things are going work related to the actual topic in the OP. It's silly and derailing.

[Machismo]

No, because they're losing. /headdesk

Considering Americans are terrified to the point of wanting to build a wall, and strip people of religious freedom... I'd say they are winning. Let me know when radical Islam is defeated... I'll wait.

[Berengil]

Well yeah that isn't how things are going work related to the actual topic in the OP. It's silly and derailing.

Good point. I do, btw, fully support Cruz on this.

Me supporting that nutbag. Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows.

[Sky High]

No, because they're losing. /headdesk

no the head desk here is in your opinion your'e never wrong as long as you never lose. which, is the kind of sentiment that would make the most staunch nihilist blush.

[Endus]

Central America is the US's backyard. Like it or not.

Denying the sovereignty of your neighbours is pretty much exactly what I was getting at with that "looking for your Poland" statement. Doubling down on that view really isn't helping your case.

[triplesdsu]

Let's unpack how ridiculous this stance of yours is.

1> Criminals aren't "terrorists". Not even organized criminals. "Terrorism" has a specific definition. These cartels do not remotely meet that definition. That doesn't make their actions okay, but it doesn't mean they're terrorists.

2> Even if they were terrorists, it would still be an act of war. You're literally talking about attacking a sovereign nation because your country can't enforce its own laws adequately.

3> Once you start indiscriminately attacking sovereign nations without any form of provocation whatsoever, you won't have to worry about the Americas. The entire world is going to take notice, and take action.

4> It wouldn't even work, since cutting off the head of one of these organizations isn't like cutting the head off a snake. It's like stamping on a momma wolf spider. The spiderlings scatter all over, and you'll never be able to track them all. You'd just force them into a different approach, one you don't know about, and you'd have to start back at Square 1. Pretty much the entire reason you're in this situation is that you can't fight these criminals this way.

Your entire rhetoric sounds like an America hunting for who to target as their Poland. It's not just objectively wrong on the facts, it's wildly dangerous.

While I am not condoning randomly bombing nations to go after cartels, the idea that the world would suddenly turn against the US in outrage is ridiculous. We have veto power in the UN. Are allies with most of developed armies of the world and have the might to bitch slap them into place should they get bold. Never mind the economic power of the US. There would be diplomatic repercussions but the world isn't uniting against the US because some cartels got bombed. Its totally not worth it.

[Berengil]

no the head desk here is in your opinion your'e never wrong as long as you never lose. which, is the kind of sentiment that would make the most staunch nihilist blush.

"Wrong" and "right" are matters of opinion. Do you know whose opinion counts in the end? Whoever's left standing. That's what I've been trying to say.

[Sky High]

"Wrong" and "right" are matters of opinion. Do you know whose opinion counts in the end? Whoever's left standing. That's what I've been trying to say.

yeah and it's kinda, sorta, psychotic in this day and age. but w/e this doesn't have to do with this retarded bill Cruz is pushing.

[Berengil]

Denying the sovereignty of your neighbours is pretty much exactly what I was getting at with that "looking for your Poland" statement. Doubling down on that view really isn't helping your case.

I don't need help for my case. Here's something you may or may not know about Americans; for a great many of us, the opinions of non-Americans mean absolutely nothing when it comes to matters of our security.

They can remain sovereign so long as they keep their problems to themselves. Let it bleed over here = sht, meet fan.

[Machismo]

While I am not condoning randomly bombing nations to go after cartels, the idea that the world would suddenly turn against the US in outrage is ridiculous. We have veto power in the UN. Are allies with most of developed armies of the world and have the might to bitch slap them into place should they get bold. Never mind the economic power of the US. There would be diplomatic repercussions but the world isn't uniting against the US because some cartels got bombed. Its totally not worth it.

It would lead to geopolitical ostracizing, and a push away from our country as a trading partner. All it would take, is for a couple countries to stop using the U.S. dollar as the international currency, and our country is fucked. Sure, it would take a couple decades, but the damage would be damn hard to overcome.

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I don't need help for my case. Here's something you may or may not know about Americans; for a great many of us, the opinions of non-Americans mean absolutely nothing when it comes to matters of our security.

They can remain sovereign so long as they keep their problems to themselves. Let it bleed over here = sht, meet fan.

I just assume you are trying a satirical portrayal of what foreigners consider the typical ignorant American stereotype. Well done.

[Lastlivingsoul]

Doesn't matter where the money comes from. A wall will just be a pit to throw money in.

Yep a pit into the republican's pocket. We all know we can trust Billionaires right? I bet OP thinks that wall will be made of solid gold and have mounted turrets every 20 feet. Sigh, anyone who still buys these lies should just be barred from ever voting again.

[Kujako]

Legalizing alcohol is a terrible idea. Not only would it not get rid of cartels/gangs (they'll find other ways of making money), there are the terrible effects this liquor has on people. So either you're selling this poison in rite-aid or there will be an illegal market for a decriminalized product. No problem solved.

Huh... funny how the same arguments make just as little sense now as they did in the past.

[Berengil]

It would lead to geopolitical ostracizing, and a push away from our country as a trading partner. All it would take, is for a couple countries to stop using the U.S. dollar as the international currency, and our country is fucked. Sure, it would take a couple decades, but the damage would be damn hard to overcome.

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I just assume you are trying a satirical portrayal of what foreigners consider the typical ignorant American stereotype. Well done.

You assume incorrectly. Well this has been fun. Time to go farm Sentinax drops for this ridiculous quest.

[Kujako]

You assume incorrectly. Well this has been fun. Time to go farm Sentinax drops for this ridiculous quest.

Good news! They seem to drop of the non-empowered portal mobs now.