Inequality in America is getting worse according to top economists

[Docturphil]

Did you just say the solution for McDonald's employees is entrepreneurship? Do you think life is a movie or something? McDonalds not McDougals...

The solution for a McDonald's employee is to graduate to a better job. Entrepreneurship is not out of the question for them, however. There are a lot of ways to start businesses or freelance with nothing but a cheap laptop and the internet.

If you're not creative or innovative and are too complacent to try and get a better job... oh well.

[Gestopft]

So why didn't he do it when he had full control of all 3 branches his first 2 years?

It was called bailouts and stimulus. Stabilizing the economy in the first place was sort of the most pressing issue at the time. The GoP was voted into the House majority about four months after Dodd-Frank was passed, so there really wasn't much time to advance the agenda beyond the initial measures to stabilize and prevent the same from happening again.

Oh, and the ACA was the big domestic policy focus for much of those two years.

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The solution for a McDonald's employee is to graduate to a better job. Entrepreneurship is not out of the question for them, however. There are a lot of ways to start businesses or freelance with nothing but a cheap laptop and the internet.

If you're not creative or innovative and are too complacent to try and get a better job... oh well.

You still aren't addressing the fact that people are still needed for those jobs, and that "get a better job" isn't a valid societal solution because the shitty job continues to exist.

[Docturphil]

Nobody is saying this.

I feel like it's a common misconception. People often equate income inequality to people being worse off than they were in the past. This is not the case. The average American is far better off and has a much higher quality of life than the average American from 20 years ago.

This is essentially true, but the middle and lower class really aren't getting any richer once you adjust for inflation. The discussion is usually phrased in terms of "share of new wealth." Almost all of the new wealth being created is going to the very top, and the proportion of income and wealth owned by the richest has been increasing. New wealth is being created, but incomes for most people aren't going up as fast as inflation and the cost of living.

Really? If it's the case that cost of living is surpassing the incomes of the lower and middle class shouldn't we see an increase in deaths by starvation, lack of shelter, and lack of access to life saving medicine?

Last I checked just the opposite has happened in the last 30 years.

[Video Games]

I'd believe it. At least i have an ok savings that I'll promptly spend in early july.

[Vash The Stampede]

It is optional. You can always find a better job.
You choose to work in a McDonald's flipping the burgers and you get paid for whats its worth (which isn't much).
Don't like it, go get a better job. Last time I checked I don't have any education or connections and I made it just fine.

You can't use yourself as an example. They said 50% of Americans make $16,000 a year. That's fucked up. It's pretty clear the wealthy are getting wealthier, but money is a finite resource.

[Docturphil]

You still aren't addressing the fact that people are still needed for those jobs, and that "get a better job" isn't a valid societal solution because the shitty job continues to exist.

People needed for those jobs is not the same as somebody has to take that position. Shitty jobs can exist all they want. More shitty jobs does not mean that there are less better jobs. Doesn't work that way.

We don't need McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, or any fast food place. Those jobs are not needed by society. They are optional and exist because people want the luxury of "fast food".

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...but money is a finite resource.

Really?... REALLY!?

No, money is not finite. At least not in the sense that there's only X amount of product which can be produced. If money was a finite resource then farmers would still be using oxen to till their fields and we would all still be farmers. Money is merely a representation of the value and quantity of a product. The more product created and the higher quality a product, the more money exists.

[jakeic]

They are human, just not a problem society has to deal with. They can deal with it them selfs.
If you don't contribute anything you're worthless. If your only skill is to flip a burger 20 hours a week then these people should start bettering them selfs.
So backwards to start rewarding shit like this.

"Skill" is just a buzzword people throw around, people who have been more fortunate than the people they're trying to denigrate. But I'm sure you possess some intangible, perhaps even ethereal quality, that makes your labor special.

[Glorious Leader]

We don't need McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, or any fast food place. Those jobs are not needed by society. They are optional and exist because people want the luxury of "fast food".

LOL SOCIALIST!!!!!

All kidding aside this is fucking arbitrary. Society doesnt need fast foot but it needs whatever jobs you think people should raise themselves up to? Of course your still ignore the problem of aggregation. IF EVERYONE UPGRADES THEMSELVES TO A "better" JOB THEN NO ONE ONE HAS. It would simple become the new starting job because you got rid of fast food LOL

[petej0]

"Skill" is just a buzzword people throw around, people who have been more fortunate than the people they're trying to denigrate. But I'm sure you possess some intangible, perhaps even ethereal quality, that makes your labor special.

Thats how employers decide who to hire. I dont have any basketball skills, so I would not expect to receive any contract offers from the NBA. Are you saying I should? Should I expect to make as much as LeBron James?

[Docturphil]

LOL SOCIALIST!!!!!

All kidding aside this is fucking arbitrary. Society doesnt need fast foot but it needs whatever jobs you think people should raise themselves up to? Of course your still ignore the problem of aggregation. IF EVERYONE UPGRADES THEMSELVES TO A "better" JOB THEN NO ONE ONE HAS. It would simple become the new starting job because you got rid of fast food LOL

Arbitrary perhaps, but it seems to me that technology has upgraded all of our jobs to better jobs. If we all upgrade our jobs, then everyone has upgraded their jobs. Automation can do many of the old shitty jobs, and automation does do many of the old shitty jobs.

So what you're saying can't happen has already happened.

But you're right, all you're essentially doing is changing the standard. But isn't that the goal anyways? Isn't that how we make progress?

[jakeic]

Thats how employers decide who to hire. I dont have any basketball skills, so I would not expect to receive any contract offers from the NBA.

Because you're not taller than 6 feet tall?

Take for example the NFL, if all the players just stopped playing, the NFL could and most likely would continue exist. In fact, this has happened in the past.

[RuneDK]

I don't think comparing everyone to the 1% makes a whole lot of sense. The 1% are outliers and in a totally different system from most people. Of course it matters, but it seems to me it would be more useful to compare the lower class to lower/upper middle class.

what lower/upper middle class? You're either rich or you're poor now.

[petej0]

Because you're not taller than 6 feet tall?

Is being 6ft+ a (the only) requirement to play in the NBA?

[Glorious Leader]

Arbitrary perhaps, but it seems to me that technology has upgraded all of our jobs to better jobs. If we all upgrade our jobs, then everyone has upgraded their jobs. Automation can do many of the old shitty jobs, and automation does do many of the old shitty jobs.

So what you're saying can't happen has already happened.

But you're right, all you're essentially doing is changing the standard. But isn't that the goal anyways? Isn't that how we make progress?

Automation does more than simple do away with old shitty jobs, it replaces the number of workers that were previously required to do that job usually to zero but really any efficiency involves less jobs. Very simple why would anyone in their right fucking mind invest the capital required into automation if it meant they would have to hire the same amount of people anyway, albeit it at some "upgraded" level? THEY WOULDN'T. That's the fucking point. People arguing that workers can get upgraded skills miss the point of automation. EFFECIENCY THROUGH REDUCED LABOR COST.

INDIVIDUALS CANNOT FIX THIS PROBLEM . This is a MACRO problem not an MICRO one. Arguing that people can upgrade their skills misses the fucking point entirely. PEOPLE WILL GET LEFT BEHIND. Lots of them. And unless theirs a plan it's gonna be alot of misery and suffering.

[jakeic]

Is being 6ft+ the only requirement to play in the NBA?

It ranks among the highest.

[petej0]

Take for example the NFL, if all the players just stopped playing, the NFL could and most likely would continue exist. In fact, this has happened in the past.

Thats not the point I am making. In order to play in the NBA or the NFL, you are required to have a certain set of SKILLS and those SKILLS have to be better then the other people in order to make the team.

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It ranks among the highest.

But if you had great SKILLS it wouldnt matter your height, right?

[jakeic]

Thats not the point I am making. In order to play in the NBA or the NFL, you are required to have a certain set of SKILLS and those SKILLS have to be better then the other people in order to make the team.

Those skills are things you get from training, and are not unique to an individual person outside of someone being born taller, faster, or wider than someone else.

[petej0]

Automation does more than simple do away with old shitty jobs, it replaces the number of workers that were previously required to do that job usually to zero but really any efficiency involves less jobs. Very simple why would anyone in their right fucking mind invest the capital required into automation if it meant they would have to hire the same amount of people anyway, albeit it at some "upgraded" level? THEY WOULDN'T. That's the fucking point. People arguing that workers can get upgraded skills miss the point of automation. EFFECIENCY THROUGH REDUCED LABOR COST.

INDIVIDUALS CANNOT FIX THIS PROBLEM . This is a MACRO problem not an MICRO one. Arguing that people can upgrade their skills misses the fucking point entirely. PEOPLE WILL GET LEFT BEHIND. Lots of them. And unless theirs a plan it's gonna be alot of misery and suffering.

That is an entirely different point then what I am making. However,, if someone had plumbing skills, they are less likely to be replaced by automation.

[Glorious Leader]

That is an entirely different point then what I am making. However,, if someone had plumbing skills, they are less likely to be replaced by automation.

I suspect even eventually trade skills will be replaced as well but yes that may be later down the line. In any event skills upgrades will no longer be sufficient. Even without automation their are quite simple too many people and too little work available. You could all go and be stem grads and it would be the same thing. The fact that work can be "made" wont last forever and is incredible harmful in general. David Graber calls them "bullshit jobs". He wrote a really good essay about it in strike magazine but can't find it anymore. annoying.

[petej0]

Those skills are things you get from training, and are not unique to an individual person outside of someone being born taller, faster, or wider than someone else.

Exactly. You cant just walk up and expect to make a team. Training is involved. Same goes for the labor market. I cant just walk into a law firm and expect to first chair a multi-million dollar law suit. I have to train for that. I cant just walk into the license board for my state and get my Plumbing license, i have to train for it. The amount of training involved in most cases dictates your compensation. The harder the training the less people who have that skill and the more compensation you receive.

If you can train on a cash register in a few hours, that isnt that hard, thus your compensation will not be that great either.