Remove Augment Runes

[Deleted]

only fix is that they should not only drop from fucking lfr (really wtf i hate doing lfr), why the fuck should i queue for lfr when im doing hc runs. There is no point in removing them, since every bit of dps helps in getting kills.
Also 15k is nothing in legion.

[Tojara]

People generally use them wrong. Use them if you have to push particular DPS times, or if you're close to a kill.

We used them on Mythic Gul'dan at the start of P2 after we consistently were seeing the burn part of the phase before the fifth eye. After that we started using them once we saw several P3 attempts. Once you hit certain thresholds on bosses consistently they aren't really useful, and should only be used when close to a kill otherwise.

Like once we got comfortable on Mythic Helya we didn't start popping them until phase 3, as the previous phases were no longer a DPS check. A lot of multi phased encounters are like this. Pure DPS checks like Guarm, Krosus or Ursoc are a bit different to where you want to use them on the pull, but you shouldn't be popping them on the pull with these bosses until you basically can hit the enrage to begin with.

That said I'm still not a fan of augment runes, but some people are really inefficient and use them when they literally aren't going to be useful. Same thing could be said about old war/deadly grace at the start of the expansion. No point in potting on the pull when you're learning the encounter, unless that particular part of the encounter requires you to have a lot of DPS to meet some kinda phase transition or threshold.

[D3athsting]

Make them obtainable from Wq and purchaseable with bos instead of retarded lfr

[Deleted]

Remove elitist wannabees instead.

You see, that can go two ways.

[Tradu]

People generally use them wrong. Use them if you have to push particular DPS times, or if you're close to a kill.

We used them on Mythic Gul'dan at the start of P2 after we consistently were seeing the burn part of the phase before the fifth eye. After that we started using them once we saw several P3 attempts. Once you hit certain thresholds on bosses consistently they aren't really useful, and should only be used when close to a kill otherwise.

Like once we got comfortable on Mythic Helya we didn't start popping them until phase 3, as the previous phases were no longer a DPS check. A lot of multi phased encounters are like this. Pure DPS checks like Guarm, Krosus or Ursoc are a bit different to where you want to use them on the pull, but you shouldn't be popping them on the pull with these bosses until you basically can hit the enrage to begin with.

That said I'm still not a fan of augment runes, but some people are really inefficient and use them when they literally aren't going to be useful. Same thing could be said about old war/deadly grace at the start of the expansion. No point in potting on the pull when you're learning the encounter, unless that particular part of the encounter requires you to have a lot of DPS to meet some kinda phase transition or threshold.

Yeah, augment runes probably shouldn't exist(but Vantus Runes are a bigger problem than augment runes, imo)

[D3athsting]

Yeah, augment runes probably shouldn't exist(but Vantus Runes are a bigger problem than augment runes, imo)

How is an item that lasts 7 days a bigger problem than one that lasts 1h if you don't die?

[Slicer299]

Augment runes as a BS consumable are close to making me quit raiding there 500g a pop on my surver which equates to 15k a raid night if you average 40 pulls and use augments on 30 of them. I can't afford to spend 30k a week raiding when my cash stack is bloody 4k and my options are to either buy wow gold for irl money or be benched.

Now you might say dude its 325 intelect thats barely any dps who cares don't use them and I'd completly agree with you. I'm sure mythic guldan is killable without augment runes and that my BIS legendary that increased my single target dps by 30k is far more important than rune usage. But as long as they are in the game they give elitist raid leaders the oppertunity to make them mandatory and if you don't augment every pull your letting your team down and will be ostracized for not taking raiding seriously.

An easlily fixable solution by either
1. remove augment runes from the game
2. give them sources other than lfr that nobody wants to run
3. Make them craftable with inscription or enchanting
4. Make the buff not losable on death like flasks
5. The WOD solution of a reusable quest item that you have to earn and then its unlimited rune use

As long as there is a way to increase your dps even if it is minimal high end raiders will require it. Making guldan/elisande progress cost 30k a week is ridiculous and is ruining my enjoyment of raiding.

Your problem here is your RL, not Augment Runes. You can't ever blame Blizzard for the poor decisions of their players. No RL should ever be worrying about food or runes until you have a fight down to a point where it's a DPS race and not learning mechanics. You should be finding a better guild with a smarter RL instead of complaining about the existence of Augment Runes.

I've run into plenty of raid leaders like that over the years, they are not worth the time. The are ego driven control freaks who are actually often the reason why a raid doesn't progress they way they should. Players will passive aggressively not play well because they are pissed at how the RL acts, or the group will have an issue with attendance or retention because people don't want to show up and deal with a RL like that.

Requiring flasks during progression is still pretty typical, because you're going to use the same number of those every night no matter what. I was pushing Mythic progression hard back during EN, and would have had my Cutting Edge had I stayed with the guild I was with at the time, but I had a RL much like yours that made raid nights a chore. So I left for a less progressed, but better run guild. I love raiding Mythic, but there is no point if I'm stuck raiding with a RL that sucks the fun out of the game.

So you have to weigh what's more important to you, pushing to be among the best in the world, or a more relaxed environment that you can actually enjoy. If you haven't downed Mythic Gul'dan yet, it's not like you're competing for World First or anything anyways. You may even be able to find a guild that has just as much or more progression, but a better RL. Put some apps out there and bring up the issue of how the raid is run in the interview process. It's how I settled on the guild I'm in now, I said point blank I wasn't going to put up with certain bullshit, and they were on the same page as me.

[Dracodraco]

Yeah, augment runes probably shouldn't exist(but Vantus Runes are a bigger problem than augment runes, imo)

Curious, what's your issue with Vantus runes? I actually thought they were a decent idea; They're very cheap (which means anyone can have them), and it's a tactical decision from your raidleader where you want the boost that adds another layer to progress. The only "bad" thing I could see is when you kill a hard boss with them like Elisande on a sunday, then have Monday+Tuesday you need to progress without them - but on the other hand, one of two things will be true:

1: If you're likely to kill it within those 2 days, you likely didn't need the vantus runes to start with for that boss, so they're just a minor bonus next week.
2: If you're unlikely to kill it within those 2 days because of the fight being difficult, you could use extra boosts ment for later parts of the fight to progress the earlier parts - for example, we knew when we started Guldan that 7.2 was comming out fairly shortly after we started progress (we killed Elisande on our last raid day the 20th, annoucement for patch day came on the 23rd, and we had our first proper nights on him 26+27, with the patch released on 29th), so we just bloodlusted P1 for our first two nights to get P1 practice, then stopped bloodlusting after the huge power-gain from traits. It's not vantus runes, to be sure, but something that'd likely have a similiar effect is a second pot - sure, it should be used in P2 or 3, but if it helps get progress done right now instead of failing dps checks you know you'll beat with the extra nudge...

[Tradu]

How is an item that lasts 7 days a bigger problem than one that lasts 1h if you don't die?

Because Vantus Runes lock you into 1 boss each week, augment doesn't.

[Dracodraco]

Because Vantus Runes lock you into 1 boss each week, augment doesn't.

Vantus runes are only ment to be for a boss you're having a hard time killing though; It's a fairly big extra buff, offset by the fact that you have to be clever with your pick. If you're going through enough bosses that you want to vantus rune multiple ones, then you're not at a boss where it's difficult enough that you should need/want to use them at all. You raid 3 days per week; Rule of thumb says a boss has to take more than 1 night of progress to kill for it to be worth runing for you. One night for farm, one full night for progress, one night for a kill (or full progress) then a few pulls on the next boss without runes that you can use next week. It was only ever bad during the initial "which of these 4 bosses do we go to next"-thing, but that's a headache for your RL to figure out.

[Tradu]

Curious, what's your issue with Vantus runes? I actually thought they were a decent idea; They're very cheap (which means anyone can have them), and it's a tactical decision from your raidleader where you want the boost that adds another layer to progress. The only "bad" thing I could see is when you kill a hard boss with them like Elisande on a sunday, then have Monday+Tuesday you need to progress without them - but on the other hand, one of two things will be true:

1: If you're likely to kill it within those 2 days, you likely didn't need the vantus runes to start with for that boss, so they're just a minor bonus next week.
2: If you're unlikely to kill it within those 2 days because of the fight being difficult, you could use extra boosts ment for later parts of the fight to progress the earlier parts - for example, we knew when we started Guldan that 7.2 was comming out fairly shortly after we started progress (we killed Elisande on our last raid day the 20th, annoucement for patch day came on the 23rd, and we had our first proper nights on him 26+27, with the patch released on 29th), so we just bloodlusted P1 for our first two nights to get P1 practice, then stopped bloodlusting after the huge power-gain from traits. It's not vantus runes, to be sure, but something that'd likely have a similiar effect is a second pot - sure, it should be used in P2 or 3, but if it helps get progress done right now instead of failing dps checks you know you'll beat with the extra nudge...

It definitely adds another layer to progress(although personally I don't think that layer is particularly valuable or interesting), and on farm it adds yet another thing that skews ranks. And then there's the issue of killing a boss with Vantus Runes on, and needing those to get the kill, meaning you have to use them on rekills for a while(Krosus when we first killed him and at least for now Elisande for my guild) so your progress on the next boss becomes a weird mess of first progressing without runes for a while and then suddenly getting another 30k versatility.

- - - Updated - - -

Vantus runes are only ment to be for a boss you're having a hard time killing though; It's a fairly big extra buff, offset by the fact that you have to be clever with your pick. If you're going through enough bosses that you want to vantus rune multiple ones, then you're not at a boss where it's difficult enough that you should need/want to use them at all. You raid 3 days per week; Rule of thumb says a boss has to take more than 1 night of progress to kill for it to be worth runing for you. One night for farm, one full night for progress, one night for a kill (or full progress) then a few pulls on the next boss without runes that you can use next week. It was only ever bad during the initial "which of these 4 bosses do we go to next"-thing, but that's a headache for your RL to figure out.

Right, I just don't think that potential extra headache for the RL is worth it, they could just tune the bosses a little bit lower(because the assumption is everybody uses vantus runes for progress anyway, so it only makes a difference on farm) and remove the runes.

[aGit]

I feel bad for OP's and your guild. But lets be honest, do you really think 325 int makes much of a difference on your DPS? I mean its about .8% of the current Intellect most people have, that isn't going to push you over any hump honestly.

back on krosus mythic progerssion we could not meet the dps check for the fight even when everyone was a live, no CRs were used at anypoint in the fight and the adds went well. With everyone using runes and healers using dps pots at the start, we eventually did manage to kill it, with like 2-3 seconds to berserk. so yeah on tight dps checks, the runes help just enough.

[Pull My Finger]

Every day, there's a new thread with some dork demanding the removal of something.

[KaPe]

Every day, there's a new thread with some dork demanding the removal of something.

Yeah, I'm sure removal of runes would be a crushing blow to the game. It's such an amazing content that it must be preserved at all cost. Not like Blizzard solved the issue themselves with unlimited runes back in HFC - but now decided that it's back to carrying LFR for runes once again. What a joy.

[roi]

Augment runes are becoming more and more worthless with every new raid/gear tier, as they have static stat values. The problem is taking care of itself.

Unless you have 0.5% Gul'dan wipes because of the enrage timer where no one used an augment rune, they're already pretty much useless.

[TehTemplar]

Baffled what you people did back when pots were over 1k a pop and flasks over 3k.

Being able to use the AH better than a baboon is required most of the time in order to raid mythic.

Otherwise you can chill in HC or find a guild that goes without them.

[primalmatter]

Blizzard wants lfr to drop a item that players can sell to raiders.

Hence augment Runes exist. I don't think such a interaction between groups should exist especially with most BoEs no longer existing in raids last I checked but it does.

[Deleted]

They are just a means for more casual players to get some of the money back from guilds that they bought sell runs from. If you really are as hardcore a player as you pretend to be, it should not be a problem for you anyway. If you're not, then you shouldn't use as many of these runes.

And if you are in a hardcore raiding guild, then that should be selling runs now anyway and buy runes for their raiders from the money earned. If you don't do it, then again, you're not as hardcore as you think.

It has always been customary that the "hardcore raiders" put much more effort in the game in order to be able to down bosses quicker than others. Farming resistance gear/pots early on, split runs later on etc. Since when did it become "cool" to complain about it being "so hard" to be a hardcore raider??

[huth]

20*.8%

For that, everybody in the raid would have to have 20 stacks of the augment buff. It's 0.8% for one character out of 20, times 20, or 0.8%/20*20 = 0.8%*20/20 = 0.8% total.
Unless you're wiping due to barely missing timers, taking them won't affect your success.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard wants lfr to drop a item that players can sell to raiders.

Hence augment Runes exist. I don't think such a interaction between groups should exist especially with most BoEs no longer existing in raids last I checked but it does.

We're constantly finding BoEs. Mythic drops plenty of 900+ cloaks and belts.

[Thagrynor]

20*.8%

If this doesnt make a difference for you, then why casual trash needs gear upgrades at all? I mean, 325 Int dont make a difference anyways!

Your entire argument is based on your lack of understanding of how math works. The only way "20*0.8%" is something that means anything is if a single person can use 20 runes as once.

10 people using runes isn't an 8% because the 0.8% is based on the total INT of 1 person. 10 people have 10 times the INT so that 8% you seem to yhink you have is now divided by 10, bringing it back to 0.8%. If you had 2 people and 1 rune, it actually drops it from 0.8% to 0.4% across the group.

Making ridiculous arguments using math you clearly don't understand only serves to invalidate your argument.