Is Legion the MOST Alt-Friendly Expansion Yet?

[Relapses]

It seems pretty clear that I have been talking about the difference between what you see the game as, and what the game actually is. What I've wrote has everything to do with it and I've shown nothing but understanding you. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't understand you. You are under the impression that because you said it isn't your cup of tea that means anything else you said can't be discussed.

If you cannot understand that my opinion about Legion's "alt friendliness" is not a statement of fact nor am I trying to convince anybody that it is, I'm beyond words. I prefer WoD/MoP's model. I don't need you to write a fucking college thesis about how players should perceive the game. I don't care. That has absolutely nothing to do with my original post.

[Thelxi]

Ultimately it will be impossible to make any future expansion alt-friendly as long as this new gearing system of warforging/titanforging exists. All that does is reward sinking time into characters, with alts inevitably falling behind.

[rhorle]

If you cannot understand that my opinion about Legion's "alt friendliness" is not a statement of fact nor am I trying to convince anybody that it is, I'm beyond words. I prefer WoD/MoP's model. I don't need you to write a fucking college thesis about how players should perceive the game. I don't care. That has absolutely nothing to do with my original post.

What I have said has everything to do with the post I originally quoted from you. I stated some of your reasons as wrong and attempted to have a discussion with you. You made more then just claims of feelings through out this discussion and if your opinion is not a statement of fact then why are you holding to something that you admit is false? Seems pretty silly to know your opinion isn't fact but still cling to it.

[Deleted]

Let me check what Khadgar has to say...

No.

[rhorle]

Ultimately it will be impossible to make any future expansion alt-friendly as long as this new gearing system of warforging/titanforging exists. All that does is reward sinking time into characters, with alts inevitably falling behind.

Alts don't need the very best. Mains receive a marginal increase and can get lucky and get them fast just like any RNG drop. Some players went whole expansions with out seeing their BIS trinket. Did that also make other expansions unfriendly to alts and other RNG loot needing to go?

[Rawrajishxc]

Legion is definitely NOT the most alt friendly expansion. Literally any other expansion was better for alts.

[Alvito]

I never said I had a problem gearing up during MoP, I just said Legion is and has become more alt friendly than MoP.

I was a mythic raider during that time, so naa I had no problem at all lol

You forgot to switch accounts when you replied there. That was a reply to your other account.

[Zandalariprelate]

Cataclysm is so far the most alt friendly because reputation wasn't a big deal, same with gear and in legion the perks of hall class and legendaries items can be a big deal about rerolling or wanting to get the better of alts but so far I enjoy to actually research and try classes until I pick one to main, in my case is the dk right now, the warlock wasn't very appealing to me in his current state

[Relapses]

What I have said has everything to do with the post I originally quoted from you. I stated some of your reasons as wrong and attempted to have a discussion with you. You made more then just claims of feelings through out this discussion and if your opinion is not a statement of fact then why are you holding to something that you admit is false? Seems pretty silly to know your opinion isn't fact but still cling to it.

I doubt you'll ever give this up but when you're trying to tell somebody their opinion is wrong, you deserve absolutely zero respect and lose all credibility. I will not be responding to you any further.

[Thelxi]

Alts don't need the very best. Mains receive a marginal increase and can get lucky and get them fast just like any RNG drop. Some players went whole expansions with out seeing their BIS trinket. Did that also make other expansions unfriendly to alts and other RNG loot needing to go?

There used to be such a thing as BiS pre-raid gear, which most of us were happy to have our alts decked out in. That does not exist anymore, the pit is bottomless. There are no more tiers or levels of gear, RNG ilvl is all we have.

[Assumi]

Alt friendly was late Mists. The fact that Timeless Gear was BoA tokens and dropped like candy was probably the single biggest gift to alts ever. A hell of a step higher than BoP Relinquished nethershard grind from hell.

WotLK had lower ilvl tier sets purchasable with Badges that were obtained from 5 man content. You could also convert honour into a BoA token at a 1:1 ratio and essentially feed your alts PvP sets through playing your main and sending the currency over.

Very late TBC had the introduction of badges, which while MUCH more limited than WotLK badges would be, you could still get some choice pieces, including things like The Blade of Harbingers, The Mutilator and Vanir's Fist of Brutality (among others) that were extremely good on their own and stat weighted as insanely good for some specs. (Pre-Wrath Ret with Blade of the Harbingers, anyone?)

Not sure what kind of head trauma causes someone to pretend Cata or Legion were better for alts than that.

You had what in Cata? Some really easy to obtain, badly stat weighted PvP sets full of Resilience? LFR only came at the very end and the prior 2 tiers were a step down for alt-gearing compared to Wrath because tokens only bought you 3 of the 5 pieces.

Legion is an endless treadmill of the same world quests over and over and over and over for Legendaries and there is a very huge gap between an alt with no legendaries (And even no throughput legendaries) and an alt/main with 1, let alone 2 (God help you if those 2 are that characters best 2). An endless grind through daily limited, time limited invasion world quests and slow as hell acquisition from Rare Elites for Nethershards to buy RNG tokens that may or may not be incredibly bad stats for your spec. Ding Dong, bad stat roll. Back to an hour of Elites, better luck next time. A step down in alt-friendliness compared to BoA Timeless tokens.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Unequivocally yes.
There has never been a catch up mechanic this potent. In another 6 months we will feel otherwise, but as long as Argus again contains a stellar catch up like the Broken Shore this will be a complete resounding ABSOLUTELY.

If you don't understand this, I can explain why very easily.

Post Patch 7.2, I have my main Paladin at 714. Its my raid toon, so little has changed there other then the gradual raid nerfs allowing us to get 3 more bosses down.
My main alt is a Blood DK. He was 871 before the patch and I considered this to be pretty well geared for an alt with this much room for gearing. I considered him very strong, but didn't think I've ever be able to play him seriously enough to push harder content.
I had a Vengeance Demon hunter and a Discipline Priest both at 855~
That seemed like their ceiling as well, because I didn't have time to learn to play them properly and push the content needed to gear, specifically high Mythic+.

Now since 7.2, I have leveled a Brewmaster and a Resto Druid. In 18 hours played at 110, my Brewmastr is 887. I got lucky, but regardless, his ilvl is 15+ higher than my DK that I played regularly for months.
My DK is now 901, and my DH and Priest are both 890something.

Every week, I complete a +10 on all these toons. At the end of the week I get a ton of AP and a 905 which occasionally is a sizeable upgrade. 905 would be Mythic NH equivalent.

So really, patch 7.2 has made the game the most alt friendly its ever been alone. Its always been alt friendly thanks to 5 man progression, but there is just no two ways about it now. The catch up is there to elevate us to a level suitable for Tomb, but that's not out for another 2~ months.

If you are still not believing this, just quit the game. There has never been another time in the game's history where your alts can catch up as quickly as your main. Ever. And there never will be anything better than this unless they start making raid gear BOA.

I'm getting Mythic raid ilvl gear regularly on alts I play an hour or two a day max!

- - - Updated - - -

Alt friendly was late Mists. The fact that Timeless Gear was BoA tokens and dropped like candy was probably the single biggest gift to alts ever. A hell of a step higher than BoP Relinquished nethershard grind from hell.

Actually, you are right. There is ONE way this current system can be even more friendly and that's making Dauntless and Relinquished fully BOA.

[ablib]

Alt friendly was late Mists. The fact that Timeless Gear was BoA tokens and dropped like candy was probably the single biggest gift to alts ever. A hell of a step higher than BoP Relinquished nethershard grind from hell.

WotLK had low ilvl tier sets purchasable with Badges that were obtained from 5 man content.

It's amazing how many people forget the past, and how the above statement couldn't be more wrong.

So many people thought timeless isle dropping epics was great, when in reality it was probably the worst catch up mechanic ever. It was the last tier of the expansion, yet Timeless Isle item level gear was the same ilvl as the tier from the beginning of the expansion. Blizzard did an excellent job as selling this shitty catch up mechanic to the player base. The Wrath equivalent of this would be if during the ICC tier (264 ilvl), they dropped ilvl 200 Naxx gear as a catch up mechanic.


In Wrath, you could buy the previous and current tier ilvl gear with tokens you earned by running 5-mans.

[kaintk]

ap and legendary farming is what killed the alt fun to leveled, i hope blizard will not do the same mistake in the next expansion

[Assumi]

So many people thought timeless isle dropping epics was great, when in reality it was absolute shit gear. It was the last tier of the expansion, yet Timeless Isle item level gear was the same tier as the beginning of the expansion.

The hell are you on? The Timeless gear was 496 and SoO LFR was 528. It also has the option to buy or loot Burden of Eternity and make it 535, BETTER than LFR. That's an instant trip to LFR queuing to start your alt off without even bothering with Burdens.

The gap between Relinquished and Tomb LFR may by smaller, but you're seriously underestimating the TIME involved. My Warlock main at the time, thanks to BoA tokens, was able to gear my Priest in full Timeless gear (baring the Unique equipped second trinket) in a single day of hard rare slaughtering.

At no point are you ever, EVER, EVER getting the 17 * 5000 (14 slots ((Ring and Trinket unique)) + 3 relics (that's baring you get crazy RNG luck and get all 3 proper types with no wasted double ups) = 85000 Nethershards to catch up in a day. The only other option is Dauntless, which not only has a much larger gap between it and LFR than Timeless did, but also does not have the option to upgrade with Burdens which COULD be gotten for free from either Archiereus daily or the RNG chests in the cave. Do tell me where on Broken Shore I can get a free, daily chance at Relinquished tokens as a consolation that doesn't involve spending just as much Nethershards as buying the items directly.

Another overlooked issue here is the BoA one. The characters who need catch up the most are going to take the longest to get the damn Nethershards for the gear anyway, Timeless gear was better, and faster obtained by higher geared alts or your main.

tl;dr - Everything Relinquished has over Timeless is lost instantly due to time and amount of grind imposed to justify the improvement, the lack of main-assistance in the process and the lack of chances for freebie upgrades to the substantially stronger version.

[rhorle]

I doubt you'll ever give this up but when you're trying to tell somebody their opinion is wrong, you deserve absolutely zero respect and lose all credibility. I will not be responding to you any further.

The world is flat. Am I wrong? Opinions can be wrong, but you are not wrong for having an opinion. The ones who deserve no respect are those who think all opinions are always correct. It is all about perception which is part of the problem with Legion. You have people that don't understand the system and the way it works who perceive that they need to grind AP on their main because they will fall behind. Even when the gains are marginal and in a month they can earn the same amount they lost.

Much like the litany of BS you applied to what is making legion Alt unfriendly. Because you perceive it as being a problem it is a problem to you and can be nothing but. But it isn't really a problem with game play but a problem with the player base. Take the blizzard watch (the left overs from wow insider when they were shut down) that data mined a order hall mission as having a karazhan quest. That blog post labeled it as an attunement and the forums exploded over people whining how terrible the game was and how bad of a design it was. All over a faulty perception of what was just a quest to go there. According to you that opinion was right and order halls are required to enter mythic kara. Oh its not? So opinions can be wrong?

- - - Updated - - -

There used to be such a thing as BiS pre-raid gear, which most of us were happy to have our alts decked out in. That does not exist anymore, the pit is bottomless. There are no more tiers or levels of gear, RNG ilvl is all we have.

Only because you say so. There are still gear lists or gear rankings. If there can be BiS warforged there can be BiS non-warforged. In order for warforged to exist there has to be tiers, or levels, of gear. Because warforged adds an extra level to the current tier/level of gear. RNG is all we have every had why do you think it has been anything but?

[Daffan]

It's so alt friendly that the welfare boosts meant for alt catchup are used on most people's mains. Easy AK, Easy AP & Super easy gearing

[Thelxi]

RNG is all we have every had why do you think it has been anything but?

Implying Legion's RNG is even in the same universe as other expansions' RNG is absurd.

- - - Updated - - -

It's so alt friendly that the welfare boosts meant for alt catchup are used on most people's mains. Easy AK, Easy AP & Super easy gearing

Keep in mind the actual raid tier is not even out yet. Things will feel good for admittedly quite some time, but the moment the actual raid opens in late June people's tune will change.

[Eninya]

Class hall gating is one day max (my druid only had 5 1-hour missions of gating). AK has BoA catch up which means there is no gate holding your alt back. A fresh alt that dinged on the day of the 7.2 patch would could have the same AK as your main you dinged at the launch of Legion. The further we get from the launch of 7.2 the further your alt will be behind, but you could always by a new BoA AK book if your main is that far ahead.

My demon hunter alt, which is fairly recently in 7.1.5 leveled, still took 4-5 days to complete the Class Hall. I can only buy up to AK20, still, and had she not been 25 I'm not sure if the quest for AK26 would just jump her up through the rank gap. In either case, the alt will grossly lag behind in legendary acquisition, as I'm especially unlucky with collecting them.

[Daffan]

Implying Legion's RNG is even in the same universe as other expansions' RNG is absurd.

- - - Updated - - -



Keep in mind the actual raid tier is not even out yet. Things will feel good for admittedly quite some time, but the moment the actual raid opens in late June people's tune will change.

Maybe, but by the time it open Blizzard will probably give out some Heroic NH level stuff for free.