Brexit: UK must abandon 'fairy tale' ideas, says Germany's Europe minister

[Reyuna]

I am, I want Germany and Britain to go at each others throats. That will make both weaker and allow other powers to rise, like France and Italy, which care about Europe more than about themselves.

You want Germany to go war against a nuclear armed nation? That'll end well

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I hope the EU reforms, the trade aspect is a decent idea, but the political union is a step too far. It is clear that some nations want to become a single state and others do not. Germany, Austria and Holland should merge if they want to, but do not try and push everybody into a shitty merger, otherwise the whole thing will collapse in acrimony.

They need to take a step back and actually see what people want, not what EU politicians want, otherwise they will get more like Le Pen rising to prominence. She is expecting to get 40% of the vote in the French Presidential election, which is crazy, they are the French UKIP polling numbers the Tories would be okay with.

I used to think like you did, but sadly I am now at the point where I don't even care what deal they want to give to us, I just want to see the EU BURN.

Long may the rise of the right wing continue to flourish in Europe.

[Kalis]

No big uproar, no. I mean there wasn't one when Trump weighed in on the French elections. Or when Obama endorsed Marcon.
Plus, your first sentence alone highlights the problem here. Everything that European politicians say about Brexit can have an effect on the General Election. That man just echoed sentiments that German politicians have made for weeks, even before that GE was announced. A government is not exempt from criticism for its actions and stances just because an election comes around. Especially when said government is using the matter at hand - and with that the EU - for political gain in said election.

Do you think he would be okay with Putin overtly influencing the upcoming German elections? I highly doubt he would and if his party do not censor him, then they cannot complain if Putin does so.

There is a reason politicians do not do it and that is because it leaves you open to others doing the exact same thing to you. Trump is not a great example, he just says whatever random shit comes into this head, he has managed to become President of the USA without knowing anything about politics, he knows how to get votes, it is the politics side he struggles with. Obama got a load of shit for commenting on Brexit.

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I used to think like you did, but sadly I am now at the point where I don't even care what deal they want to give to us, I just want to see the EU BURN.

Long may the rise of the right wing continue to flourish in Europe.

I am fine with the right wing rising, I am a Tory, but the EU has some good things going for it and I hope it can find a set of solutions that suit everybody, as the one size fits all approach is dumb, unfortunately the people in charge appear to be knob jockeys.

[Mehrunes]

The last few days have been pretty funny all around when it comes to Brexit talks. The quote by Juncker here is just one of them, but he had plenty more.

I don't doubt their will be hard times in the short term for us in the UK. We could be going through those hard times now like the youth in several EU nations are, what hope do you think they have in the EU as an institution?

Perhaps if the EU actually lived up to the values it espouses instead of only working for the 'stronger' nations we might not see this surge in euro scepticism across Europe. Maybe the EU should get their own house in order before they put out hit pieces on a government that is actually doing what their people want them to do, you know, how politics is supposed to work.

How comes then that Euroscepticism so far only won in the second strongest EU nation (that had a metric fuckton of special snowflake privileges on top of that)? Meanwhile the Eurosceptic alt-reich lost the last few elections in the smaller nations already, like Netherlands. Besides, the idea that EU is working only for stronger nations is abject nonsense. Especially if you want to use a metric like hard times of youth. Was kinda higher before joining EU in the eastern member states for some reason.

And informing the UK government the facts of the matter (or repeating for the hundredth time that the EU wants to negotiate the rules of leave proper first, because UK's bullshit idea of negotiating the post-leave free trade treaty first is ass-backwards, given how said treaty rests on how UK leave and what EU legislature will still apply to them, if any) is not "putting out hit pieces on UK government".

All Britain has to do is spend some money in Hungary and Poland to help them break the EU from the inside. Then the Germans won't be able to threaten them like this.

And how are these countries supposed to do so, exactly? Poland is still subject to rule of law safeguard procedure right now, kinda in the doghouse at the moment. And Macron said a few days ago that if he wins he will push EU to be even harsher on both Poland and Hungary and place sanctions on them for not following EU's basic rules and values of EU. Besides, Polish government and president are both in favor of Poland remaining in EU.

The brits are doing a damn smart thing. We the dutch would follow you in a heartbeat if we were given the chance.. Which is porbably why in 17. Years of akepticism we have not once had a vote on a nexit... Thats their idea of democracy for you

I guess that's why Wilders won. Wait...

[Kiri]

Do you think he would be okay with Putin overtly influencing the upcoming German elections? I highly doubt he would and if his party do not censor him, then they cannot complain if Putin does so.

There is a reason politicians do not do it and that is because it leaves you open to others doing the exact same thing to you. Trump is not a great example, he just says whatever random shit comes into this head, he has managed to become President of the USA without knowing anything about politics, he knows how to get votes, it is the politics side he struggles with. Obama got a load of shit for commenting on Brexit.

To be honest, my comment was in regards to you saying that no EU politician should say anything about Brexit. That guy twittering is somewhere on Trump-level, yeah, but everyone directly involved in the Brexit process should be allowed to talk about it. That is because Brexit and its perception are not just 'politics in the UK'. It is just as much foreign policy as it is domestic, and those you deal with in foreign policy have a right to talk about it. If it affects the race, then that is only because politicians in the UK made such a big part of them to begin with. The same with France. I mean May talking about how everything will be better after Brexit can have an effect on Le Pen's chances. Anyone who makes other countries part of their platform cannot censor their responses.

But again, tweeting is dumb.

P.S.: To be honest, we here in Germany are more worried about Putin secretly trying to influence them than overtly :/

[Mehrunes]

Punish the UK in trade talks and you'll plunge the entire continent into another recession, a one Germany won't be able to bail you all out of. Also, as Mrs May told Mr Junker, the U.K. is under no legal obligation to pay anything to the EU, maybe he forgot about that, I hear he did have a drink or two, as he is known to do.

A mere opinion first expressed by House of Lords. With acknowledgment it's just one interpretation. And that it applies only to a situation where no deal of any kind is reached in the minimum of two years of negotiations.

i don't understand how this is news and how you can call those "threats"? those are the same comments since pre-referendum, uk won't retain any privilege and any deal must be advantageous for both parties involved.

Not treating UK like a unique special snowflake even once it leaves is a threat to "muh sovereignty" of UK or something along those lines.

[Underverse]

Sounds like you're advocating for Britain to commit hostile actions against the EU.

Don't pay any attention to Cybran. He's been waging his anti-Europe propaganda campaign for quite some time now.

[Kalis]

To be honest, my comment was in regards to you saying that no EU politician should say anything about Brexit. That guy twittering is somewhere on Trump-level, yeah, but everyone directly involved in the Brexit process should be allowed to talk about it. That is because Brexit and its perception are not just 'politics in the UK'. It is just as much foreign policy as it is domestic, and those you deal with in foreign policy have a right to talk about it. If it affects the race, then that is only because politicians in the UK made such a big part of them to begin with. The same with France. I mean May talking about how everything will be better after Brexit can have an effect on Le Pen's chances. Anyone who makes other countries part of their platform cannot censor their responses.

But again, tweeting is dumb.

P.S.: To be honest, we here in Germany are more worried about Putin secretly trying to influence them than overtly :/

May has not said anything about the French election as far as I am aware, if people interpret her talking about Britain post-Brexit as an endorsement for Le Pen, then that is them reading something into her words that is not there.

In contrast, this politician cannot be said to have talking about anything other than the British Government, as those are literally the first three words of his Tweet. As far as I can tell, his remit does not cover the UK, he appears to be a no mark trying to make a name for himself.

[Deleted]

Some people really hate democracy.

Or are realistic...

[Mehrunes]

The eu has pretty much made it plain they don't want a deal. Oh well we should, as we are, concentrate our efforts on joining NAFTA and TPP giving us access to a developed market of almost 1 billion people. Better to leave those little europeans, led by a drunkard, to squabble amongst themselves about bent bananas and other petty irrelevant things.

UK kinda doesn't meet the geographical criteria for both TPP and NAFTA to begin with. TPP is dead in the water on top of that. If you weren't busy being clueless about everything, you'd know US withdrew from it so far. Which prevents it from being ratified. Joining it would have been hard even ignoring that fact, given how it doesn't have much in terms of expansion provisions and the negotiating even among the current parties to it was going on at a snail's pace. US also threw a monkey wrench into NAFTA recently and even threatened to leave it if they don't get to renegotiate it how they want. So yeah, go ahead and try to join one trade agreement that's dead on arrival and one that has a future more uncertain that EU ever had or will have. Also, gotta lol at the euromyth tangent at the end.

[Kiri]

May has not said anything about the French election as far as I am aware, if people interpret her talking about Britain post-Brexit as an endorsement for Le Pen, then that is them reading something into her words that is not there.

In contrast, this politician cannot be said to have talking about anything other than the British Government, as those are literally the first three words of his Tweet. As far as I can tell, his remit does not cover the UK, he appears to be a no mark trying to make a name for himself.

Yeah, as I said, I was not on about that guy, just thought you meant all European politicians in general, due to your wording.
That's what I mean though, those things are pretty interconnected by now, due to how they are used by politicians. Someone telling the UK government to not paint pictures too rosy could be doing that to influence the GE. Or the French elections. Or just state on opinion in order improve their standing at home. I mean, as noted, German politicians have been saying that since before the GE was announced, so it would actually have a greater effect on said elections if they suddenly stopped. If the EU was not made a topic of elections by the politicians in a country, it would not be as affected by such things and could tell EU politicians to shut up about it.

[Mehrunes]

Some of them are really struggling with the concept of not interfering in the elections of another country, which is basic politics and the reason people are having a go at Putin. This Michael Roth is a complete amateur. Could you imagine the uproar if Britain started interfering in the current French elections on behalf of Le Pen?

Potential hacking of one candidate of another party. Stating facts about an ongoing issue concerning both UK and EU. Totally the same ballpark right here.

I'm only 33, but I believe that I will see in my lifetime, the end of this corrupt and thugish european union. The sooner the better.

They are indeed behaving like the mafia. We should just walk away asap, and get on with things. Our real friends are, and always have been the Americans and other English speaking nations, as well as the commonwealth. We have never really been that friendly with europeans, and honestly most europeans distrust the British.

Please, do elaborate.

I hope the EU reforms, the trade aspect is a decent idea, but the political union is a step too far. It is clear that some nations want to become a single state and others do not. Germany, Austria and Holland should merge if they want to, but do not try and push everybody into a shitty merger, otherwise the whole thing will collapse in acrimony.

Perhaps UK could have not pushed for a political union then. You could have lobbied your government for that too. Just a thought.

They need to take a step back and actually see what people want, not what EU politicians want, otherwise they will get more like Le Pen rising to prominence. She is expecting to get 40% of the vote in the French Presidential election, which is crazy, they are the French UKIP polling numbers the Tories would be okay with.

40% in an election with two choices. A more valid comparison to UK elections would be the first round where everyone who could competed. And where Le Pen got roughly half of that.

[Tennis]

My first thoughts were that European politicians should keep their mouths shut about politics in the UK whilst General Election campaigning is on, it could be seen as trying to exert influence over our elections and people do not tend to take too kindly to that.

So he would need to make a full apology, resign and take a revolver into the garden shed.

Then I Googled Michael Roth and the only two I found were a baseball player and some university professor, then I stopped giving a toss.

Yet you're basically doing the same thing. Living in Malta and trying to be authoritative or what is best for Brits.

[Daws]

EU should be more careful there's a fine line between UK did this to themselves and the EU is punishing the UK. Most of it though is likely hype, a show of strength to those back home because of there own upcoming elections. Post the UK, French and German elections you will likely see everything tone down and a tough yet reasonable deal struck in favour of EU but palatable to the UK. The only fantasy is the idea that the EU will hold any credibility if they can only rule through the fear of leave us and we will make you suffer.

[Mayhem]

Yes you can blame him, European politicians should not be discussing things publicly that could have an effect on the General Election, he has not come out of some meeting with Theresa May, he is giving a personal opinion and that is unacceptable at this time.

This is not the first time a European politician has done that this election either.

Some of them are really struggling with the concept of not interfering in the elections of another country, which is basic politics and the reason people are having a go at Putin. This Michael Roth is a complete amateur. Could you imagine the uproar if Britain started interfering in the current French elections on behalf of Le Pen?

Why should the EU give a fuck? I mean, you have every right to be outraged about this "interference", but why should any of the remaining 27 care?

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Do you think he would be okay with Putin overtly influencing the upcoming German elections? I highly doubt he would and if his party do not censor him, then they cannot complain if Putin does so.

Well overt influence by putin would be something new. Also this isn't anything new, this happens all the time, by politicians from every country.

[bufferunderrun]

May has not said anything about the French election as far as I am aware, if people interpret her talking about Britain post-Brexit as an endorsement for Le Pen, then that is them reading something into her words that is not there.

In contrast, this politician cannot be said to have talking about anything other than the British Government, as those are literally the first three words of his Tweet. As far as I can tell, his remit does not cover the UK, he appears to be a no mark trying to make a name for himself.

So the british govs and pretty much any brexiter campaigner is repeating at every occasion that UK will retain all the positive aspects of being in the common market without any of the disadvantages, EU politicians respond "keep dreaming" and that is threat?

From my pow the UK politicians involved in brexit are trying to reassure everyone completely hiding the obviously downside of the potential deal and at the same time they are preparing the terrain to pass those downside when they finally become unavoidable as the eu punishing uk.

I don't blame them through they have promised the moon during the referendum campaign, and every realistic comment from the eu was branded as interfering, but now that we are at the reality check they can't keep spewing fantasy bs.

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EU should be more careful there's a fine line between UK did this to themselves and the EU is punishing the UK. Most of it though is likely hype, a show of strength to those back home because of there own upcoming elections. Post the UK, French and German elections you will likely see everything tone down and a tough yet reasonable deal struck in favour of EU but palatable to the UK. The only fantasy is the idea that the EU will hold any credibility if they can only rule through the fear of leave us and we will make you suffer.

there is no fine line, the EU politicians are saying those thing since day 0 it was a choice of the uk politicians to brand reality as "lies", "threats", "interference".

[Aggrophobic]

Some people really hate democracy.

No, not at all.
The UK voted to leave but then thinks they can keep the benefits while paying nothing for them.

If they don't want to cooperate thats fine but they should not expect any help either.

[Deleted]

I guess that's why Wilders won. Wait...

Sorry to break your bubble but the guy increased his party size by 25% after having the most nin existent campaign in history. Its just a shame we only have a blonde idiot to champion the dea of nexit, the majority wants it, for good reasons too.

Heck all parties that want to leave the eu won big time, pvvd wuadrupled and fvd came out of nowhere to 2 Seats.

That being said, theres little point arguing over it; the brits atleast had a vote, our ruling elite doesnt have those stones and instead holds us captive while we pay for one cocked up project after the other

[Noradin]

My first thoughts were that European politicians should keep their mouths shut about politics in the UK whilst General Election campaigning is on, it could be seen as trying to exert influence over our elections and people do not tend to take too kindly to that.

Why would anyone care about your general elections and and suddenly carter to your delusions because of those?
It is not like this is something new that only came up after your politicans suddenly decided to have snap elections.

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I am, I want Germany and Britain to go at each others throats. That will make both weaker and allow other powers to rise, like France and Italy, which care about Europe more than about themselves.

France and Italy are part of Russia now?

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Yes you can blame him, European politicians should not be discussing things publicly that could have an effect on the General Election, he has not come out of some meeting with Theresa May, he is giving a personal opinion and that is unacceptable at this time.

This is not the first time a European politician has done that this election either.

Some of them are really struggling with the concept of not interfering in the elections of another country, which is basic politics and the reason people are having a go at Putin. This Michael Roth is a complete amateur. Could you imagine the uproar if Britain started interfering in the current French elections on behalf of Le Pen?

So whenever the UK decides to have "elections" all the world must stop whatever they are doing and silently wait for them to be done again?

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I agree that him tweeting this stuff in English as well as German could be considered tasteless. And if his intention was to harm May's odds in the upcoming election that bad sport, but he just might be saying this stuff for his own voters, or to gain more. Might just be that they believe that Germany is getting the short end of the stick in this whole Brexit ordeal.

Of course he would be tweeting this in English and German, seeing how often German got mistranslated in the past and then everyone ran with the mistranslation.
Just look back at "Merkle invited everyone". Because that wasn't what she said, it was what the media pretended was the translation of what she said.

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Do you think he would be okay with Putin overtly influencing the upcoming German elections? I highly doubt he would and if his party do not censor him, then they cannot complain if Putin does so.

If Putin openly comments on the upcoming German elections then that is expected, what they would complain about is covertly influencing it.

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May has not said anything about the French election as far as I am aware, if people interpret her talking about Britain post-Brexit as an endorsement for Le Pen, then that is them reading something into her words that is not there.

In contrast, this politician cannot be said to have talking about anything other than the British Government, as those are literally the first three words of his Tweet. As far as I can tell, his remit does not cover the UK, he appears to be a no mark trying to make a name for himself.

I didn't see any mention of May in that German quote either, so then you are reading something into his owrds that is not there?

[Azerox]

I think the UK should pull their heads out of the sand.
Ofcourse it won't be beter if you dont have the advantages of the EU working togheter.
You don't want to be in the party, don't drink our liquor

[Deleted]

The EU will make it a showcase of how hard they will screw you over if you democratically vote to leave the "union".

The ONLY prime minister that seemingly want's a decent proces and still be friends is Mark Rutten, the Dutch PM.
But he was told by other PM's and officials from Brussels that he shouldn't take such a friendly attitude.

Honestly, it sucks that we Dutch people are now shackled to France and Germany without the British, which we always had good ties with since WW2.