Rip m+

[Sarevokcz]

How is it more difficult for higher geared players? Now we don't have to lower ourselves to 10-13 keys in order to maximize loot potential or if we get shit keys

you run 10-13 because 10 is a gar cap. after patch, its gonna be 15. and you know what? Aside from weekly chest push, you wont run anything higher than 15, as its pointless if you can just instantly fail your 16+ keys to get far easier 15 keys of the same instance and get the same loot at the end.

makes sense

but not to me

[Deleted]

You are very loot driven boi. No loot, no fun? Or rather no gains no fun?

Fun is supposed to come from raids. M+ is mostly one annoying chore.

[Hctaz]

You are very loot driven boi. No loot, no fun? Or rather no gains no fun?

Raiding is pretty fun and I'd raid mythic without a loot requirement because it gives some sort of reward regardless. Cool mount and a cutting edge achievement are well worth it for me. M+ is a means to get that extra gear and AP to help you out in the rest of the game. It has zero rewards outside of those two things. It doesn't give you a mount, title, or anything to show that you went and put effort in. Your only reward is being able to talk about how "Hey this one time I had top 100 in HoV M+" like that one kid who would come to school and tell you how good he was at Guitar Hero. Nobody cares. Now they're nerfing the loot you get from being a baller. Doesn't make any sense at all.

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Fun is supposed to come from raids. M+ is mostly one annoying chore.

^^^^^^ DIIIIIIS

[Deleted]

You are very loot driven boi. No loot, no fun? Or rather no gains no fun?

Working hard and getting loot as a reward has been the model for this game for what, 12 years now? Did you know that character progression is a pretty big part of what makes RPGs fun to people?

[Deleted]

Maybe it would be in Place to tune mythic+ loot around the amount of Bosses, like they did with the AP. Example Maw of souls = 3 Bosses = 3 Pieces of loot. And to further attract People into doing higher Keys blizzard could make 3 chest = 1 extra piece of gear in a slightly higher ilvl.
Just a thought ^^

[Hctaz]

Working hard and getting loot as a reward has been the model for this game for what, 12 years now? Did you know that character progression is a pretty big part of what makes RPGs fun to people?

Character progression just in general too. "I finally got that cool mount" is a form of progression. "I have this cool title that you get for beating a challenge mode with the fastest time on the server" is progression. We just don't want our means of progression to be removed or obsolete, especially considering many people's BiS trinkets come from these dungeons.

I was actually happier with Challenge modes than I am with M+ simply due to the fact that your effort and skill paid off in some way. M+'s only rewards are loot and AP. If they nerf the loot and AP then what am I even doing them for. right?

[barackohmama]

These are good changes. Less toxicity. And it will be the same loot dropping so people will still want to run it. Less loot for "gogogers", yeah sure, but people will adapt to it quickly.

[Deleted]

These are good changes. Less toxicity. And it will be the same loot dropping so people will still want to run it. Less loot for "gogogers", yeah sure, but people will adapt to it quickly.

What does this change have anything to do with "toxicity" at all

[Deleted]

So your idea is for a mythic+ to reward everyone with 1 piece of gear for a total of 5.

You do realize that doing a boss with 20 people rewards 4-5 items, right?

You want to give the same number of items to only 5 people that just manage to finish a dungeon?

This is why your idea sounds completely ludicrous and would never ever happen.

M+ should be a different progress path than raiding, thus it should have a different reward system.

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Maybe it would be in Place to tune mythic+ loot around the amount of Bosses, like they did with the AP. Example Maw of souls = 3 Bosses = 3 Pieces of loot. And to further attract People into doing higher Keys blizzard could make 3 chest = 1 extra piece of gear in a slightly higher ilvl.
Just a thought ^^

This sounds sensible.

[Deja Thoris]

Nice change Blizzard, another way of gating the game by slowing down the way people gear up (if lucky). Fun detected, fun removed.

Even now when you get 3 chest (6 items) 90% all of them are useless, with this change i dont see myself getting any upgrade from M+.

It's going to be more fun for me personally. Sucks to be you etc but they aren't just designing the game for people that endlessly farm x instance for y piece and call it "fun".

[Deleted]

Fun is supposed to come from raids. M+ is mostly one annoying chore.

And this is the reason why the whole thing does not work. Raiders are not supposed to go into M+ except in cases when they also enjoy running dungeons. Their progress path should be in raids. Blizzard should completely overwork their progression system, especially loot dependancy.

We should get increased character power from achieving things, and increasingly harder things, not from loot. This would also make balancing content much easier because we would not have the titanforge clusterfuck. Professions would have to be overworked, but with the increasingly important market for transmog, this would be a good niche, besides providing quality of life things.

[Deleted]

Love the changes, never liked the "abuse" of the 3 chest system which only intention was to bring you to your intended level faster rather than a means of farmed reward. They may need to increase AP gained from higher keys further to compensate though to further motivate pushing keys as high as possible.

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Fun is supposed to come from raids. M+ is mostly one annoying chore.

Complete opposite for me, without mythic plus I'm not sure how I would have brought myself to log in for raids two times a week. Raids have been a snooze-fest, at least for tanks so far.

[D3athsting]

But, in most cases you can kill 2-4 heroic raid bosses in the time it takes you to do a M+10

You cando hc en in less than 30' with a 900+ grp

[barackohmama]

What does this change have anything to do with "toxicity" at all

Because it gets rid if the toxic behaviour of depleting others keys, and people who are assholes to others because there is this +3 chest thing?

[Deleted]

Complete opposite for me, without mythic plus I'm not sure how I would have brought myself to log in for raids two times a week. Raids have been a snooze-fest, at least for tanks so far.

Raids = mythic raids, not heroic raids or even LFR. That's where fun and challenge are.

[Einsz]

Rip casuals and their keys. I guess key boosting market will skyrocket now since nobody will boost a key for free

[Sarevokcz]

Because it gets rid if the toxic behaviour of depleting others keys, and people who are assholes to others because there is this +3 chest thing?

yeah, no. people will still leave runs, the toxic behavior wont go away, just the consequences for others will be lessened. If anything, more people will be elaving now as they can comfort themselves with "well, I wont deplete his key anymore" ...

[Deleted]

Working hard and getting loot as a reward has been the model for this game for what, 12 years now? Did you know that character progression is a pretty big part of what makes RPGs fun to people?

Raiding is pretty fun and I'd raid mythic without a loot requirement because it gives some sort of reward regardless. Cool mount and a cutting edge achievement are well worth it for me. M+ is a means to get that extra gear and AP to help you out in the rest of the game. It has zero rewards outside of those two things. It doesn't give you a mount, title, or anything to show that you went and put effort in. Your only reward is being able to talk about how "Hey this one time I had top 100 in HoV M+" like that one kid who would come to school and tell you how good he was at Guitar Hero. Nobody cares. Now they're nerfing the loot you get from being a baller. Doesn't make any sense at all.

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^^^^^^ DIIIIIIS

Fun is supposed to come from raids. M+ is mostly one annoying chore.

Sorry, but I feel forced to ask you the following question: are you guys mentally disabled?

I mean there is no black and white. Sure it makes fun to get rewarded for work. It makes me fun as well if I get a piece of gear. But to only run very high m+ keys just for the difficult aspect makes me also fun. Open PvP at flight masters makes also fun and results in no benifit. It makes me also fun to hardcore raid at top ranks for years now, but loot wise there is no difference if I would join a guild around top100 - at the end I would have my BiS gear as well long before the next progress raid would open. Loot is not the only way to get rewarded in an MMORPG.

[Deleted]

Although i can fully understand the depletion thing. I don't think it should lower the keystone because this is what happens.

• 5man group does +10 > gets +13 key > Starts key and cancels it untill its +10 again.

If they want to implement this they need to limit it to once per keystone.
Or when a grp activates a keystone they all get a debuf preventing them from participating in a new M+ for 15min. This debuff also gets removed after you complete m+. Basically the leaver debuff system.

If they don't do this, free boost groups will diminish drastically and just stay in the same grp, also means less likely to help guildies.

I don't like that the timer is gone. It gave an added challenge aspect and you also reduced the reward in half. Blizzard already introduced many anti mass pulling Affixeses to counter AoE zerg. Bursting is especially anti AoE dotting as well.

[Noxina]

Raids = mythic raids, not heroic raids or even LFR. That's where fun and challenge are.

Even mythic raids become a snooze fest after you clear it once or twice, making it farm content just as LFR, Normal and HC is farm content.

M+ on the other hand, just increases in challenge the more you push. Some people like a good challenge, and not a boring +10 run to get "the most loot derpaherp".


To sum things up:
Some people play WoW only for the gear, I've had people rage-quit in my guild while being trial, because they didn't get any free loot the first weeks. While others might raid for several weeks as raiders and not get any upgrades and still have a good time.
The game isn't all about loot. Some times, pushing your own limits is incredible fun and rewarding in its own way. Beating a +20 for the first time is so much rewarding than farming +10 for 5 hours on a Saturday, just to vendor all the gear you get.

And then there are the people who play this game to play pet battles, lul.