How high of a minimum wage would you be willing to tolerate?

[Adam Jensen]

A drastic increase in minimum wage will result in a drastic decrease in the availability (i.e., existence) of minimum wage jobs. Employer margins are as tight as they can be since the recession.

Example: I went to McDonald's in California yesterday. They don't have cashiers anymore. I placed my order on a large touch screen (1 of 8 in the place), and simply walked up and picked up my food.

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be a career. You need to take initiative and get a degree and work somewhere with longevity, room to improve, and a stable salary.

I worked near minimum wage in high school, during college, and during graduate school in retail, packing/shipping, and customer service. I didn't get a scholarship and my parents did not help (in fact, my father died almost 20 years ago).

I'm now 6 years removed from graduate school and quite well off. It starts and ends with you.

You cite automation at McDonalds as an example of minimum wage jobs being reduced. This is irrelevent to the argument of the minimum wage, as no matter how low the wage is, unless your workers are slaves, machines will always be less expensive.

Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be careers, but people get jobs not for fun, but so they can get money to live off of. At the current minimum wage, this is impossible in most places around the world. People are struggling to get by on the jobs they can get.

You've got a success story? That's nice. Not everyone had the same opportunities as you did. Your story is an anecdote and has no statistical significance in a country of 330 million.

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We should abolish the minimum wage so that everyone can get a job who wants one.

The idea is a person working at a low wage will keep applying for better and better jobs as they get experience, learn English whatever.

This is disproved by simply looking at history, back to the Gilded Age when we had no minimum wage and people were stuck in whatever dead end job they had.

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Its already too high. Minimum wage shouldnt be an encouragement for regular adults to get a job. Those type of paying jobs should goto students. Raising the minimum wage IMO is more harmful than helpful.

This is proven to be wrong. Raising the minimum wage increases purchasing power and improves the economy. While it does raise the cost of labor (and can raise the price of goods) it does more good than harm.

By giving workers more purchasing power, more goods and services flow in the economy. Keep workers at a poverty wage, then they can't participate in the economy, the economy stagnates, and the wealth gap increases even further.

[Lady Dragonheart]

be sure to catch me when I faint IF that were EVER to get broad support in the current Republican congress/senate. Hell, you'd run into about 1/3 of the democrat establishment who will oppose that.

It isn't something that can not, or will not, be implemented overnight. It is simply the most logical outcome of the steadily growing use of automation coupled with the staggering increase in both unemployment and general welfare costs increasing. Eventually, if not already, the ends justify the means. So, why not make money off of the inevitable?

[Adam Jensen]

It depends on where you are. In a lot of California $15/hr wouldn't even pay rent.

Sure, and in that case, in the expensive regions of California, maybe go as high as $20. My point is though, the number should be based on region. I'm picking $15, because that's the number that's around the average for the nation. But yeah, it should change depending on the cost of living in the region.

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Depends on how much goods and services go up to cover the higher wage. Increased costs always get passed on to the consumer one way or another. The price of the meal might not go up but you'll have 1 server covering what 2 or 3 servers used to cover. Good luck getting service like you used to and then enduring the "bad tipper" stink eye because they didn't come by but once and your drinks didn't get refilled.

So we need to strike a balance. But someone working 40 hours a week should not be under the poverty line, no matter what the job is.

As for tipping, that's another topic on its own but lets just say I'm all for getting rid of tipped wages and going back to only tipping if service was exceptional.

Seems to me like being forced to tip misses the entire point of tipping. It's a way to say "good job," isn't it? A little extra for hard work, rather than a mandatory added fee to a bill.

[atlings]

Tolerate? I think that depends if you're making this minimum wage or not.

[Nakotsu]

A drastic increase in minimum wage will result in a drastic decrease in the availability (i.e., existence) of minimum wage jobs. Employer margins are as tight as they can be since the recession.

Example: I went to McDonald's in California yesterday. They don't have cashiers anymore. I placed my order on a large touch screen (1 of 8 in the place), and simply walked up and picked up my food.

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be a career. You need to take initiative and get a degree and work somewhere with longevity, room to improve, and a stable salary.

I worked near minimum wage in high school, during college, and during graduate school in retail, packing/shipping, and customer service. I didn't get a scholarship and my parents did not help (in fact, my father died almost 20 years ago).

I'm now 6 years removed from graduate school and quite well off. It starts and ends with you.

your first issue was going to mc donalds...

[Glnger]

Pretty much.

The incentive to more responsibilities is more money. If you don't give more money to people that are between min wage and $15/hour then why would they stick around at their crappy job? All of a sudden everyone is going to be applying for mcdonalds and taco bell, and no one will be an EMT or mechanic.

Lose-lose situation

... How many mechanics or EMT's do you know personally that would rather be flipping frozen patties on a fryer and mopping floors? even in your bizarre world where EMT's and mechanics make the same money with the same career prospects... get real.

[Wyrt]

Minimum wage should be a living wage.

[Fudal]

This whole idea of a UBI is based entirely on this philosophy; From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

I. Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.
II. Every citizen will be a public man, sustained by, supported by, and occupied at the public expense.
III. Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.



I wonder who championed this and where it was put into practice the first time?????

[Molis]

We already pay our employees higher than the proposed new minimum wage.

STEM field and all.

We pay them for having a higher education in the proper field.

[Stormspark]

This whole idea of a UBI is based entirely on this philosophy; From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

I. Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.
II. Every citizen will be a public man, sustained by, supported by, and occupied at the public expense.
III. Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.



I wonder who championed this and where it was put into practice the first time?????

Slippery slope fallacy go.

No, it's not. It's universal BASIC income. BASIC as in, basic survival. Housing, food, basic healthcare. Not enough for luxuries. If you want luxuries (which most people do), that's when you go find a job. But if for some reason you lose your job (which happens to people all the time), you don't have to worry about getting sick and dying, or being homeless on the street.

Somehow equating that with "noone ever owns anything" is flat out ridiculous and shows you don't understand the concept.

[Xirrohon]

Oh of course she should. On top of that she shouldnt ask for any employment standards, health and safety standards, she should accept whatever bottom wage she can get and most importantly of all she should not organize with her fellow workers in collective bargaining. This is all true if you accept that labor (and by definition people) are in fact commodities to be traded, bought, sold and used by owners! Theirs a word for that. Slavery

Wth are you even talking about? Lol

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This is proven to be wrong. Raising the minimum wage increases purchasing power and improves the economy. While it does raise the cost of labor (and can raise the price of goods) it does more good than harm.

By giving workers more purchasing power, more goods and services flow in the economy. Keep workers at a poverty wage, then they can't participate in the economy, the economy stagnates, and the wealth gap increases even further.

Proven by whom? You really think minimum wage earners have that much purchasing power? You think the measly few dollars they make affect the difference in wage gap? Lol. Who the fuck came up with this?

[Alydael]

For. (United States.)

Somewhere around $15 an hour, indexed to the cost of living and inflation, seems like it'd be enough. That's a rate that would vastly improve purchasing power without raising labor costs or cost of goods too high.

There is a limit that's too high. $15 is not that limit.

Yeah, I have to agree. 15$/hour is nothing. You would have basically no hope of surviving on that working regular hours.

It's all probably a moot discussion with all the automation coming........

[Adam Jensen]

Wth are you even talking about? Lol

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Proven by whom? You really think minimum wage earners have that much purchasing power? You think the measly few dollars they make affect the difference in wage gap? Lol. Who the fuck came up with this?

The Economy Policy Institute: http://www.epi.org/publication/the-i...-member-forum/

[Nadiru]

The federal minimum wage should at least reflect inflation if nothing else, which brings it to about $10.50.

[Xirrohon]

The Economy Policy Institute: http://www.epi.org/publication/the-i...-member-forum/

Lol. Yea, you mean the Institute whos entire board is headed by current and former National Union Leaders? Yep, not biased at all.

Cato says raising the wage is bad:

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.o...nimum_wage.pdf

btw, they are biased too.

[Fayenoor]

And would you like that same life for your own children? other family members? neighbors? friends?
I don't think they'd like to have to go through that life to get an education, and I'm sure they'd resent you if you told them they had to if they were not born into wealth.

Not really. If I can make my kids understand the value of money and hard work without going through the crap I did, I would.

My point is I never got any handouts 10 yrs back when I was struggling like crazy; so don't expect me to vote for any kind of hand out plans like UBI or higher minimum wage. And I am an independent - so don't blame it on politics. I worked hard for the money I make (and no I am not any millionaire; just earn enough for a small house in the country and a small car). I have no interest in sharing my hard earned money with free-loaders.

I am never going to be rich. But I don't grudge rich people their money. They deserve what they earn.

[Hashtronaut]

The Economy Policy Institute: http://www.epi.org/publication/the-i...-member-forum/

That article you linked is $12/hr. So you can't really declare what @Xirrohon was finding issue with.

Not all minimum wage increases are good, there IS a correct number, and too much can do harm.

But, honestly I'm all for it...increasing minimum wage would lead to raise increases higher up the ladder

[Jayburner]

I say raise minimum wage to the fucking roof. I did all those shit jobs and ate fucking spaghetti with mustard because I was so damn broke and poor. fuck anyone who says people should starve and work for nothing.

[Xirrohon]

That article you linked is $12/hr. So you can't really declare what @Xirrohon was finding issue with.

Not all minimum wage increases are good, there IS a correct number, and too much can do harm.

But, honestly I'm all for it...increasing minimum wage would lead to raise increases higher up the ladder

Cato believes it bad, although they are also a bit biased.

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.o...nimum_wage.pdf

[Adam Jensen]

I say raise minimum wage to the fucking roof. I did all those shit jobs and ate fucking spaghetti with mustard because I was so damn broke and poor. fuck anyone who says people should starve and work for nothing.

Agreed.

The basic gist of my argument is that any 40 hour a week job, regardless of what it is, should be enough to put a roof over someone's head, and some food in their fridge.

If you're working full time, you deserve a livable wage.