Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Vanyali]

@Vanyali
What legendaries you use on demonic - cc? I have everything except shoulders and trinket.

shoulders & anger usually. belt can be subbed in but eh, i prefer more meta uptime since it's not so front-loaded.

[Mamut]

Gonna try Demonic build with Chaos Cleave + belt/ring. Simming 2k lower than CB/nemesis but I feel it can perform better in NH.

Tested this two builds (both twice for 4 min) in order hall on dummy and Im pulling more dps with demonic. Was affraid I will have to spam DB whole fight but fury gain from eye beam and soul fragments is high so its not that bad actually. Have to work on my opener tho, Im used to the old one.

[squirtlesquad]

shoulders & anger usually. belt can be subbed in but eh, i prefer more meta uptime since it's not so front-loaded.

Do you run with Convergence while having ring+shoulders? Or have you got meta relics?
Or just yolo without either since you're in meta for a decent time anyway?

[Vanyali]

Do you run with Convergence while having ring+shoulders? Or have you got meta relics?
Or just yolo without either since you're in meta for a decent time anyway?

No convergence, 1 meta relic just because it went to 910. 5/5 in UD. Doesn't really matter though as half the time meta will be up, but EB comes off in 10s so I'm delaying for the nem--> EB -> Meta -> EB -> EB combo again, or hero is coming

[squirtlesquad]

No convergence, 1 meta relic just because it went to 910. 5/5 in UD. Doesn't really matter though as half the time meta will be up, but EB comes off in 10s so I'm delaying for the nem--> EB -> Meta -> EB -> EB combo again, or hero is coming

Thanks!

Ill give it a go later today.
Whats the general stat priority for demonic?

I figure crit is ahead by a fair margin. And mastery isnt as strong compared to cb.

Think im at 45/14/37 or there abouts.

[Vanyali]

Thanks!

Ill give it a go later today.
Whats the general stat priority for demonic?

I figure crit is ahead by a fair margin. And mastery isnt as strong compared to cb.

Think im at 45/14/37 or there abouts.

it's actually the same - crit and mastery are king, haste agi and versa are meh. I use the same gear for both unless I want some dinnerbell cheese, which isn't often because l o l 855 bell and 880 chest.

[squirtlesquad]

it's actually the same - crit and mastery are king, haste agi and versa are meh. I use the same gear for both unless I want some dinnerbell cheese, which isn't often because l o l 855 bell and 880 chest.

Managed to pick up an 890 dinner bell but still 875 chest cuz nightbane is bitch and wont give me w forged one.
Got a 900 eoc.

Im trying to make demonic work with shoulders and helm for m+ while keeping my 895 jacins set. But i dont think i can. Havent got 910+ gloves and shoes to sub in yet.

[Extremity]

would high IL stat stick trinks be good? like a 880 890 agil/crit and a agil/mastery? currently have hunger of the pack at 890 1879agil/ 1137crit and a 880 three toed rabbit foot 1712agil/ 1096mastery. whats your thoughts on that? my stats are at 39% crit and 41% mastery 15% haste

I mean it depends on what other trinkets you have but in general I'd say yes; trinkets that are "stat sticks" can definitely be viable. If you're low on crit and have an agi/cri or aren't low on crit and have an agi/mastery they can definitely work out well assuming they're a decent item level. If you're at 39% crit and have the four piece I think agi/crit and agi/mastery would both be good for you. If you feel like you're not critting as much as you'd like or are Fury starved more often than is acceptable, go for the crit. Otherwise, go for the mastery. I say these things with the assumption that you're running the standard First Blood ST build, if you aren't they could change.

- - - Updated - - -

Gonna try Demonic build with Chaos Cleave + belt/ring. Simming 2k lower than CB/nemesis but I feel it can perform better in NH.

Tested this two builds (both twice for 4 min) in order hall on dummy and Im pulling more dps with demonic. Was affraid I will have to spam DB whole fight but fury gain from eye beam and soul fragments is high so its not that bad actually. Have to work on my opener tho, Im used to the old one.

What IS the opener for Demonic+CC build? I've never tried it outside of sims because I don't have the helm, but if you guys are saying you run it with Shoulders+ring then I definitely have those and could give it a shot. I though the build relied around the helm, but if we're talking mainly ST then I can see why it wouldn't matter so much.

Also, I saw one of you talk about what you do when your CDs come up during a fight and it was "Nemesis -> EB -> Meta -> EB -> EB". How are they getting two eye beams after Meta? I'm assuming that they EB, then Meta which resets the EB cooldown because they run that talent, but how do they get another Eye Beam (effectively two in a row) after the first one they did in Meta?

Edit: Here's the reply I'm talking about referencing that rotation:

No convergence, 1 meta relic just because it went to 910. 5/5 in UD. Doesn't really matter though as half the time meta will be up, but EB comes off in 10s so I'm delaying for the nem--> EB -> Meta -> EB -> EB combo again, or hero is coming

[Svisalith]

Belt is awful for Demonic because of the way that it has inflated value with high burst in raids and deflated value w/ low burst.

AOTHG, Raddons, KJ, Sephuz and DOG should all outperform it in basically every situation

-----

but how do they get another Eye Beam (effectively two in a row) after the first one they did in Meta?

Raddons takes 4.5s off the meta CD per target hit with eyebeam. Souls take 5s off and you'll often get enough of them to recast eyebeam after 10-20 seconds despite the "45 second cooldown"

[Vanyali]

What IS the opener for Demonic+CC build? I've never tried it outside of sims because I don't have the helm, but if you guys are saying you run it with Shoulders+ring then I definitely have those and could give it a shot. I though the build relied around the helm, but if we're talking mainly ST then I can see why it wouldn't matter so much.

Also, I saw one of you talk about what you do when your CDs come up during a fight and it was "Nemesis -> EB -> Meta -> EB -> EB". How are they getting two eye beams after Meta? I'm assuming that they EB, then Meta which resets the EB cooldown because they run that talent, but how do they get another Eye Beam (effectively two in a row) after the first one they did in Meta?

Edit: Here's the reply I'm talking about referencing that rotation:

My opener (YMMV depending on add spawns and such) generally goes:

Nem
FoTI
Fury for EB ---> EB
CSCSCSCSCSCSCSCSCSCS
Meta
EB (if low fury going into the meta, which is ideal)
CSCSCSCSCSCSCSCSCSCSCSCSCS
EB

So you get two EB after meta because 1)you're using it fairly early and 2) soulsssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. Depending on your luck you'll have it up long before meta starts to run out, and if there are stunnable adds you can use it, stun adds, and have EB up again before meta ends which is nice.

No helm necessary, just DA silliness.

[squirtlesquad]

@Vanyali im part way through a pug H NH atm running demonic + shoulders + ring.
Damn the damage and flow of fury is real.

Meta depending on fights is 10-20s behind Nem. With some chaos strikes it comes pretty close to pairing up.

[MagicPenguin]

I got a 890 Dinner Bell today, but it sims way lower than current set up (885 Mastery Stat stick/915 foci) but I don't have the belt (using double rings) is this normal or am I missing something? simming with the nightbane chest for dinner bell too

[Deleted]

For ST aka raids would you pick first blood over bloodlet and same can be said about m+? I really like BD but I also got the legendary bracers.

Edit: tested out bloodlet right now and got this on botanist and was amazed on the outcome. That DoT tho, FeelsGoodMan. Char has 0 set pieces, 43 traits.


I don't know how high that is compared to actually good players but as a new player I'm amazed how well this works and how better it is than my 4 piece monk.

[Vanyali]

@Vanyali im part way through a pug H NH atm running demonic + shoulders + ring.
Damn the damage and flow of fury is real.

Meta depending on fights is 10-20s behind Nem. With some chaos strikes it comes pretty close to pairing up.

Yuup. Sometimes the RNG can straight-fuck you, buuuuut that happens with CB build too.

I got a 890 Dinner Bell today, but it sims way lower than current set up (885 Mastery Stat stick/915 foci) but I don't have the belt (using double rings) is this normal or am I missing something? simming with the nightbane chest for dinner bell too

Probably just too low compared to other items you're replacing it with in both chest & trinket. But belt helps a great deal, so I'd recheck should you get belt.

For ST aka raids would you pick first blood over bloodlet and same can be said about m+? I really like BD but I also got the legendary bracers.

Edit: tested out bloodlet right now and got this on botanist and was amazed on the outcome. That DoT tho, FeelsGoodMan. Char has 0 set pieces, 43 traits.


Yes, you generally pick FB over Bloodlet ST. Some people sim Bloodlet higher, but it's not the norm.

Bot is a special case (heroic or normal; mythic it doesn't matter) where bloodlight shines since it's consistent cleave, and a third of it 3-target cleave at that.

I don't know how high that is compared to actually good players but as a new player I'm amazed how well this works and how better it is than my 4 piece monk.

[Bladeweaver]

Running a demonic CC build, does haste have any impact on its output? I'm wondering if it's inflating the value of certain things; rings with crit vers or crit haste vs crit mastery

[squirtlesquad]

Currently i'm ilvl 903
about 34,5k agi
41% crit
14% haste
31% mastery
3% versa

I also have t19 4-set

So my chaos strike effectively has 51% crit
I also have eye of command so once that's stacked up and I also use crit food buff I should be around a total of 56% crit on my CS.

My question is, do I have too much crit?

There probably is a point where crit isnt as phenomenal per point. But i dont think youd reach it.

You mastery is pretty low.

High crit smoothes out your fury flow immensely.
I did some test runs of 48% crit unbuffed and 33-35 mastery. Felt really nice but wasnt hitting as hard.

Aim for 40/10/40 then balance increasing both crit and mastery evenly.

In raids im around
44/13/43

[BrioWoW]

Kind of tired of being behind in m+ due to no ring, no head, no bracers. I typically just run regular single target raid build (especially for tyrannical), but what do you think I should be running having sephuz, trinket, shoulders, feet (lol), prydaz?

[Phoera]

Where does these 40% crit come from? I simmed my dh with 44% crit (+eye of command set O_o) and 29% mastery and simc says crit is still highest valued stat for me

[Quag]

Where does these 40% crit come from? I simmed my dh with 44% crit (+eye of command set O_o) and 29% mastery and simc says crit is still highest valued stat for me

with your tier bonus you get 10% crit on Chaos Strike, which effectively puts you at 50% crit. After that Mastery tends to be worth more per point as it effects your crit dmg.

[Phoera]

with your tier bonus you get 10% crit on Chaos Strike, which effectively puts you at 50% crit. After that Mastery tends to be worth more per point as it effects your crit dmg.

But I don't get, who decided that? And why? Sim takes tier bonus in account, so basically it says that having 54%+ crit is nice. Or does it lie to us? -_-