Women fighting to wear a hijab?

[Varitok]

But the law disagrees. Unless a practice, such as not using proper medical care to treat a illness, parents have the legal and Constitutional right to teach their kids what their religious convictions are. He can feel all he wants. Not going to change what will happen however.

I'm not arguing laws, a lot of the law makers are good little christians anyways. Why even respond? The guy I was responding to was clearly strawmanning.

[rogueMatthias]

I've never seen a big deal with people wearing a hijab. If they want to wear something for their faith let them. It's not really any different to people wearing a cross or a Kippah or nuns wearing a habit.

The problem is that when you try to argue wearing of Burkas/Niqab and full face veils (Which really are a bigger issue) people conflate them with hijabs and the whole argument becomes convoluted virtue (or lack of) signalling.

[Lady Dragonheart]

It's about the option to wear them. Some women want to wear them, but not be oppressed from either side into being forced to or not to wear them. That is all.

[Varitok]

I'm not. He considers it abuse just because he doesn't agree with the religion. Parents force their children to go Church on Sunday every day and practice certain religious practices such as praying and getting baptized yet no one bats an eye at it being abusive. It's a perfect example to why you can't call it abusive for parents to push wearing a piece of children out in public onto their children. Parents of all religions (and non religions) force their kids to wear certain clothes out in public all the time.

I don't agree with religion being forced on children, but it's still not abuse.

Mentally so, it is. Is it not abusive to tell to your children that if you touch yourself, you will literally burn in hell for all eternity? How the fuck is that not abusive?

Telling a muslim to wear this piece of cloth on your head and don't be gay or you will suffer death or eternal damnation?

how is that not mentally and emotionally abusive and manipulative?

[Donald Hellscream]

Its not really oppression if she wants to wear it.

[Arbiter]

Mentally so, it is. Is it not abusive to tell to your children that if you touch yourself, you will literally burn in hell for all eternity? How the fuck is that not abusive?

Telling a muslim to wear this piece of cloth on your head and don't be gay or you will suffer death or eternal damnation?

how is that not mentally and emotionally abusive and manipulative?

Pretty shitty examples.

A) Masturbating isn't even a sin. That's just ignorant parenting. I've seen it all the time. If a pastor tells you it's a sin then he's ignorant as well. Also not the first time I've seen it. There are shitty church's everywhere.

B) It's a sin to be gay in both religions. I don't agree with it, but pointing it out for one religion and not the other is useless.

C) There are Muslim women who don't wear hijabs out in public and there are even some that choose to wear them at times and not at others. You're also assuming that Muslims as a whole will tell that to their children. Don't mistake the oppression and extremism in certain countries for a generalization of an entire religion. A hijab is not specifically religious either. It's also cultural for Islamic countries.

Either way your opinion of what is mentally and emotionally abusive is just your opinion. Manipulative? Sure, it can be seen that way. I've seen manipulative tactics used in all religions (and is part of the reason why I no longer practice Christianity) and again while I don't agree with it, it's still not abuse. I also don't agree with telling kids that you're going to hell or suffer eternal damnation, but that's also not how most people carry their religions. It's an extremist view of either side to tell children "if you don't do this you're going to go to hell" and luckily it's not something that happens as a whole. Only ignorant extreme religious followers.

[HordeFanboy]

Hijab looks cool thats all.

[Fonduset]

It is just a magical rape shield, let them wear it if they want

[ati87]

So you're saying that the basis for wearing this piece of clothing is a set of ideas that's somehow conducive to human well-being, tolerance and an overall productive society? Right...


I never said anything about about these particular women being oppressed. I said it was a symbol of an oppressive set of ideas, which you're absolutely free to dispute.

But you are making that argument the moment you call it a symbol of oppression, everything else ''I didn't call these specific women'' is nothing but semantics.

rest is bullshit I won't respond to

[anaxie]

I don't understand this logic. They want to fight to be oppressed?

Just a recent boxing article I read concerning head gear.



Why would you make this a fight? I would be fighting to not have to wear some bullshit on my head 24/7. It seems so damn oppressive to me.

Someone please school me on this fight please.

http://www.excellesports.com/news/boxing-muslim-hijab/

Saw the hijab. Distracted by her horrible complexion. Go see a dermitologist wtf

[ati87]

Pretty shitty examples.

A) Masturbating isn't even a sin. That's just ignorant parenting. I've seen it all the time. If a pastor tells you it's a sin then he's ignorant as well. Also not the first time I've seen it. There are shitty church's everywhere.

B) It's a sin to be gay in both religions. I don't agree with it, but pointing it out for one religion and not the other is useless.

C) There are Muslim women who don't wear hijabs out in public and there are even some that choose to wear them at times and not at others. You're also assuming that Muslims as a whole will tell that to their children. Don't mistake the oppression and extremism in certain countries for a generalization of an entire religion. A hijab is not specifically religious either. It's also cultural for Islamic countries.

Either way your opinion of what is mentally and emotionally abusive is just your opinion. Manipulative? Sure, it can be seen that way. I've seen manipulative tactics used in all religions (and is part of the reason why I no longer practice Christianity) and again while I don't agree with it, it's still not abuse. I also don't agree with telling kids that you're going to hell or suffer eternal damnation, but that's also not how most people carry their religions. It's an extremist view of either side to tell children "if you don't do this you're going to go to hell" and luckily it's not something that happens as a whole. Only ignorant extreme religious followers.

Hell guys in ME countries wear something similar to women....they don't do so in the west (unless tourist) but so yes it has allot of culture to it.

[Kujako]

Every country on this god damn earth is telling people what they can and can't wear.

The difference is the reasoning.

Same reason. Their tits or their hair, both covered for religious puritanism.

[Deleted]

But you are making that argument the moment you call it a symbol of oppression, everything else ''I didn't call these specific women'' is nothing but semantics.

rest is bullshit I won't respond to

My argument isn't about these women, it's about what the hijab represents. And what it represents is subscribing a totalitarian ideology that preaches death to basically anything that doesn't assimilate and submit. You can choose to believe about that what you will, but it seems to me you have a pretty high wall to scale if you somehow have to turn the tenets of Islam into something positive, but go right ahead. Honor killings, bombing of infidels, lately a new affinity for trucks, throwing homosexuals off rooftops, stoning, beheadings in a public, charging rape victims with adultery, calling for the death or imprisonment of apostates, calling for the death of women who won't wear the hijab, calling for the death and subsequent attempted murder of someone who drew a fucking cartoon ,refusing to shake hands with women etc. The list is infinite. And no, we're not talking about isolated individuals here, we're talking about entire countries.

And no, the problem isn't "fundamentalism." We needn't worry about fundamentalist Buddhists, Sikhs or Hindus. The only problem with Islamic fundamentalism is the fundamentals of Islam. These things "might" occur singularly in other places and settings, but they're uniquely gathered as a part of the "righteous" Islamist.

Now please try to tell me these things are just figments of our collective imagination...


[Infracted - Religion-bashing]

[Arbiter]

And no, we're not talking about isolated individuals here, we're talking about entire countries.

1.6 billion Muslims in this world and you somehow think that the problems isolated to select countries in addition to groups of Muslim extremists such as ISIS speak for the entire 1.6 billion people who follow Islam. Damn you watch too much news.

I don't think anyone would disagree that the shit going on in the middle east is fucked up but it's pretty ignorant to relate that to a piece of clothing or even an entire religion for that matter.

[ati87]

My argument isn't about these women, it's about what the hijab represents. And what it represents is subscribing a totalitarian ideology that preaches death to basically anything that doesn't assimilate and submit. You can choose to believe about that what you will, but it seems to me you have a pretty high wall to scale if you somehow have to turn the tenets of Islam into something positive, but go right ahead. Honor killings, bombing of infidels, lately a new affinity for trucks, throwing homosexuals off rooftops, stoning, beheadings in a public, charging rape victims with adultery, calling for the death or imprisonment of apostates, calling for the death of women who won't wear the hijab, calling for the death and subsequent attempted murder of someone who drew a fucking cartoon ,refusing to shake hands with women etc. The list is infinite. And no, we're not talking about isolated individuals here, we're talking about entire countries.

And no, the problem isn't "fundamentalism." We needn't worry about fundamentalist Buddhists, Sikhs or Hindus. The only problem with Islamic fundamentalism is the fundamentals of Islam. These things "might" occur singularly in other places and settings, but they're uniquely gathered as a part of the "righteous" Islamist.

Now please try to tell me these things are just figments of our collective imagination...

Pretty sure their are extremist in ever religion, you just choice to ignore...ask the Chinese for example of what they think about Tibet.

But yea you don't like Muslim, with that drunk raving of yours in pretty cleaR you just hate Muslims and aren't that pro freedom for women. Did a Muslim guy steal your wife? Or did you lose to him in a competition...any case issues.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure their are extremist in ever religion, you just choice to ignore...ask the Chinese for example of what they think about Tibet.

But yea you don't like Muslim, with that drunk raving of yours in pretty cleaR you just hate Muslims and aren't that pro freedom for women. Did a Muslim guy steal your wife? Or did you lose to him in a competition...any case issues.

And queue the pointless quips as expected. I'll take that as a lack of any sort of intelligible answer. No, I don't hate Muslims. But I do recognize that there's a problem with a backwards, violent, bigoted, oppressive ideology, and we need to address that. That doesn't mean I hate the people who are indoctrinated - there's still hope for them to see reason - and many people do. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings or doesn't fit with your world view, but fact of the matter is that these things are going on quite openly, and you know it.

And the root of the cause for the tension between China and Tibet is a question of sovereignty, not religion.

[Darkeon]

Indoctrination makes people do the darnest things.

[Deleted]

1.6 billion Muslims in this world and you somehow think that the problems isolated to select countries in addition to groups of Muslim extremists such as ISIS speak for the entire 1.6 billion people who follow Islam. Damn you watch too much news.

I don't think anyone would disagree that the shit going on in the middle east is fucked up but it's pretty ignorant to relate that to a piece of clothing or even an entire religion for that matter.

Quite a few Muslims seem to agree with what I'm saying. http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...Shariadolikeit

[cubby]

I don't understand this logic. They want to fight to be oppressed?

Just a recent boxing article I read concerning head gear.



Why would you make this a fight? I would be fighting to not have to wear some bullshit on my head 24/7. It seems so damn oppressive to me.

Someone please school me on this fight please.

http://www.excellesports.com/news/boxing-muslim-hijab/

Something like 65-75% of people's religion comes from their parents religion. This is an example of that - or that, as someone else said, freedom runs both ways. They want the right to do it, just as they/others want the right NOT to have to do it.

I get what you're saying, though, and I personally agree. But that's another entirely different discussion.

[derpkitteh]

It's about the option to wear them. Some women want to wear them, but not be oppressed from either side into being forced to or not to wear them. That is all.

either you're not oppressed and don't wear it, or you're oppressed and do wear it.

there is no option where wearing it is not oppression, because it is one of the most sinister amalgamations of oppression just by the very fact that it exists.