Soldiers injured more in mixed units than in all male ones

[Deleted]

'Boys carry equipment for girls and are injured'



http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/228996

Col. (Res.) Raz Sagi, chairman of the Forum for IDF Strength, noted in Channel 20's Patriot discussion program that young women are not the only ones in mixed combat units who are injured at a higher rate than the male soldiers in separate units like Golani. The male soldiers also have a higher rate of injury in mixed units as compared to all male units.

He mentioned a study published by Kalman Liebeskind, according to which 24% of the male soldiers are defined as injured at any given moment in the mixed Bardelas unit, compared with 8% in Golani.

Sagi explained that because the female soldiers cannot carry the heavy equipment, the task falls on the male soldiers, who have to carry more than they would carry if the unit was comprised only of young men.

He categorically rejected the claim that the IDF has no choice but to recruit girls for the combat units because of a shortage of male manpower, and recalled that the IDF had recommended reducing men's length of service before the Shaked Committee.

Sagi rejected the argument that the units involved were "light infantry," whose sole function was to patrol the borders during peacetiime because there were already ISIS penetrations and that elite units were called in to eliminate them.

The discussion panel tried to understand why the IDF insists on continuing to experiment with introducing women into combat units, if the army's own research data shows enormous problems as a result, and Sagi said only, obviously referring to pressure from radical feminist organizations, that there is an "agenda in control of the army."

[Independent voter]

Yeah, women in combat roles would have positives and negatives, you need bodies in combat roles so opening those jobs up to women give you more bodies, but women can't do as much as most men so there's that too.

It's kind of like how they let some women become fire fighters even though they can't carry a unconscious body like a man can. Well maybe it's not as bad cause I don't think Israelis are letting women into combat roles because they want to, they have to.

[Puupi]

Having women in the army is completely retarded unless she is as strong as an average male soldier.

Women cannot do somethings as effecient as men just like how men can't do things as effecient as women.

What would that be which men can't do as efficient as women?

[I Push Buttons]

Having two different standards (a lower standard for women) be detrimental to combat/unit effectiveness would seem like common sense... But alas.

[Azadina]

What would that be which men can't do as efficient as women?

Becoming a mother?

[Very Tired]

Is there a link to an actual source? I see none. Without knowing the sample size and where the sample came from, this is a meaningless statistic.

They also spelled the guys name wrong.

Why the fuck do you use these shit sources in every post you make?

Gotta go reaching for those articles that support your agenda!

And seeing how far he had to grasp for this particular topic, it only serves to support women in the army.

[Zython]

"Alas, after a series of deadly blunders caused by distracting low-cut fatigues and lots of harmless pinching, the Army decided women weren't fit for service. Not when I'm in charge."

/10character

[Kalis]

In creased incidences of groin strain.

[I Push Buttons]

Yeah, I can't even find the actual study with various google searches using the guys name. Just other people referencing "A study published by blah blah blah says this." Well where the fuck is the study? I hate blog posts like this.

Not that study, but some different figures referenced in a different article:

Though more women are serving in combat roles, positions in infantry and armored brigades have been deemed too physically demanding for female soldiers.

The equipment they have to be able to carry is too heavy, the distances the soldiers have to be able to travel are too far. At least this is what the IDF’s Medical Corps and the army’s gender affairs adviser to the chief of staff have determined.

These are not decisions based on women’s intellect, determination, or desire to serve. They are based on simple equations of body mass, muscle type, bone density and other physiological attributes, Lt. Col. (res.) Dr. Yuval Heled, head of the Institute for Military Physiology at Tel Hashomer’s Sheba Medical Center, told The Times of Israel.

“You need to be at this weight; you need to be able to run such and such a distance at a specific speed; you need to be able to evacuate a wounded soldier to such and such a distance; your muscle power needs to be that,” he explained.

Female soldiers have been shown time and again to excel in a variety of military and combat fields, including marksmanship and team building, but carrying a stretcher with an injured soldier on it 50 kilometers (30 miles) is not one of them.

“Physiologically, a woman is not necessarily suited for every position that a man is,” Shavtai said.

“We’re not prepared to open every position no matter the cost,” she added.

As it is, female combat soldiers suffer from stress fractures and other injuries at a dramatically higher rate than their male counterparts. In the IDF’s mixed-gender Caracal Battalion, 40 percent of the female soldiers had some kind of injury, and in the Artillery Corps, that number was close to 70%, the IDF revealed this summer in the army’s Bamahane magazine. Female soldiers suffered about twice as many injuries as the male soldiers in the same units did.

“The balance here is between, on the one hand, allowing women to serve in the best combat positions that exist, while on the other, fulfilling our primary duty, which is protecting the health of that human being,” explained Dr. Heled.

As such, the IDF is working to better prepare its female recruits for the physical tasks that await them in the army, giving them nutritional and fitness advice before they begin their service, Heled said.

However, some of those efforts to find only the most physically fit and suitable candidates are limited by budgetary and manpower restrictions, Shavtai said.

“Equality costs money,” Shavtai said simply.

While they are in the army, the IDF has begun providing female combat soldiers with lighter, better-fitting equipment — like helmets and bulletproof vests — that both better protect them and prevent some of the bone and joint stress injuries that plague female soldiers.

“You know what happens?” Shavtai asked rhetorically.

“When there are extras, the male combat soldiers ask for them. Because they are better than their old vests, they argue over who gets them,” she said with a laugh.

But the amount of specialized equipment the IDF can provide to female soldiers is limited by its expense.

In recent years, added Heled — who was involved in the research — the IDF has also reevaluated what exactly the fitness requirements for each unit are, in order to determine if women could serve in those positions.

“In 2008 or 2009 we started taking a list of professions — combat soldier, tank operator, infantry soldier, etc. — and we were asked to give a professional opinion on if it is possible [to integrate women],” Heled said.

“We took each of the professions and we did an analysis for each of the positions. None of them disqualified women, none of them. What it said was this: Here’s the criteria, not for a female combat soldier, but for any combat soldier in Golani, the requirements are X, Y, Z,” Heled said, using the Golani Infantry Brigade as an example.

While some of those positions were opened up to women, in light of those findings, others could not be.

“We gave them all the criteria. And anyone who can stand up to those criteria, can be a Golani soldier. The reality is that we don’t have any female combat soldiers in Golani. Maybe in the future there will be, but they’ll need to fulfill those criteria,” Heled said.

That a woman may never serve in — or lead — the Golani Brigade may seem insignificant, but those infantry and armored brigades are almost always the starting points of IDF generals’ careers.

[minteK917]

What would that be which men can't do as efficient as women?

Ultramarathon women are actually often better or equal when it comes to 200 km and 1000km. At those running distance the average women is actually better then men. While 10-50 KM men dominates.

Plus theres always gymnastic.

[shrunken]

Women are in many cases less valuable members of the team in a combat environment. This is no great stretch of the imagination but it's something that we have to reconcile when we're deciding where the draw the line between equality and practicality.

I think that so long as we're a society devoted to providing women the opportunity to participate in combat roles, then women should also be subject to mandatory enrollment in the selective service system. I'm not pro-hobbyism in this regard.

[Deleted]

Women are better at multitasking. It's actually proven.

I don't think being capable of cooking dinner and watching tv at the same time is all that necessary in the military. Especialyl when does type of skills is mostly needed in high stress situations, where men are more favored.

[Deletedaccount1]

Most men in the military are not that strong anyway. Military PT tests don't have a strength requirement, they are endurance based.

[Deleted]

Having women in the army is completely retarded unless she is as strong as an average male soldier.

First what troll logic are that? Do you judge males at the same standard? If a male is not as strong as a average soldier its completly retarded? You know average... if there shall be a average it must be a number of individuals over and under the average.

Make relevant requirement and have them same for both sexes, if the individual make it that individual have ern the postion....

[Zeek Daniels]

Ultramarathon women are actually often better or equal when it comes to 200 km and 1000km. At those running distance the average women is actually better then men. While 10-50 KM men dominates.

Plus theres always gymnastic.

Good so when the retreat is called the women will be able to run 200km or 1000km away faster. But if its a short retreat well, bye bye women.

[Kryos]

There should be clear benchmarks what you must be able to do to be a combat soldier and if a woman meets this standard, she is in. The standard needs to be based on the reality and real needs on the battlefield and if the standard is so high only very few women are able to meet it, than that's ok. This isn't about gender, this is about survival of the group. I bet there are many jobs for mechanics, computer drone specialists and other things in the army that are "manly" but don't require high level physical power. That's where you can have the smart women that can't carry another soldier with gear for 30 minutes.

[mittacc]

Most men in the military are not that strong anyway. Military PT tests don't have a strength requirement, they are endurance based.

Are you really saying that the military doesn't have strength tests? What? I don't know about yours but ours do. I've done a few of them myself; one where you have a 25kg vest on you and have to do 75 step ups on a high box with each leg (75 with one and then 75 with the other, not alternating) without rest and another where you have to hold the highest position of a chin-up for one minute. Try these things yourself and you'll see that you have to be both strong and have endurance.

[Kryos]

Women are better at multitasking. It's actually proven.

No, that's a myth.

This theory is based on the fact that the left and right sides of the cerebral cortex (“the higher brain”) are more densely connected in a woman’s brain than a man’s, meaning that information can bridge the two hemispheres more effectively. In contrast, men tend to have more front to back connections within a hemisphere.

But in reality, no human brain performs very well when multi-tasking – we end up doing each task less well than we would if we tackled it individually. In one study of 120 men and 120 women, multitasking reduced performance by 77% in men versus 66% in women. Constant interruptions can also lead to increased stress and in some settings, such as driving or flying or surgery, to serious safety risks. It is better for us to shift away from multitasking altogether and focus on tasks fully and sequentially.

"On the contrary, the results of our study show that men are better at multitasking than women," Timo Maentylae, a psychology professor at Stockholm University, said. Men are sometimes better than women at handling multiple tasks simultaneously, but the performance gap is correlated to the female menstrual cycle, according to his study, to be published in US peer-reviewed journal Psychological Science.

In line with previous research, men and women with good so-called working memory were also better than others at multitasking.
However, Maentylae found that the ability to combine several different tasks at once was also linked to spatial ability which, for women, is linked to their menstrual phase.

"Previous studies have shown that women's spatial skills vary across the menstrual cycle with high capacity around menstruation and much lower around ovulation, when oestrogen levels are high," he said. "The results showed a clear difference in multitasking between men and women in the ovulation phase, while this effect was eliminated for women in the menstrual phase."

The participants, 160 men and women between 20 and 43 years of age, were instructed to keep track of three digital "clocks", or counters, that displayed different times at different speeds. While registering certain times displayed by the clocks, defined by a simple set of rules, they also had to watch a scrolling ticker featuring common Swedish names, pressing the mouse button when one of the names was repeated. Differences in spatial ability and working memory were based on separate tests.

[Dr Assbandit]

If I recall, women are far better at dealing with emotional and even internal physical stress compared to men. Some of histories best snipers have been women as well.

Men are naturally on average taller, have denser skeletons, and are physically stronger as far as strength goes due to testosterone and muscle mass.

I can see why they would prefer men over women on the front-lines, but as far as the medical profession goes I would argue that women make far better doctors than men ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[Deletedaccount1]

Are you really saying that the military doesn't have strength tests? What? I don't know about yours but ours do. I've done a few of them myself; one where you have a 25kg vest on you and have to do 75 step ups on a high box with each leg (75 with one and then 75 with the other, not alternating) without rest and another where you have to hold the highest position of a chin-up for one minute. Try these things yourself and you'll see that you have to be both strong and have endurance.

You don't need to do step ups for any military PT test I've ever heard of.

http://www.military.com/military-fit...c-training-pft

That is to graduate boot camp and all of those are relatively easy endurance exercises.

http://www.military.com/military-fit...rmy-ranger-pft

Even for Army Rangers, the hardest requirements they have are 6 pull ups and 49 push ups in 2 minutes which any healthy adult male could train for in a few months. Anyone who has been lifting consistently for a few years probably has more difficult work outs several times a week. A real strength test would be to bench 225 or squat 315 but obviously there wouldn't be many people in the military if that was a requirement.