Destro vs. Affliction in 7.2.5/ToS

[Coldfire989]

inb4 ring of royal grandeur

Lol exactly what I was thinking but more like the Hellfire Amulets they do seem to like pulling stuff from D3 so would not surprise me to see a legendary that gives a talent to you without selecting it.

[Deleted]

With this thread I must ask, they not nerfing Affli to hell anymore? With some previous PTR notes, not gonna search them up they nerfed them really hard and with the cleave bosses in TOS + the rework of Destruction it was clearly better to switch to Destro.

Now I am getting confused. I took the decision to change to Destro, so now I am 51 destro 46 affli and 40 demo and I plan to be 58 or whatever when the TOS is out.

Any retraction of the nerf or why do you think affli still will be so good?

[Beazzles]

With this thread I must ask, they not nerfing Affli to hell anymore? With some previous PTR notes, not gonna search them up they nerfed them really hard and with the cleave bosses in TOS + the rework of Destruction it was clearly better to switch to Destro.

Now I am getting confused. I took the decision to change to Destro, so now I am 51 destro 46 affli and 40 demo and I plan to be 58 or whatever when the TOS is out.

Any retraction of the nerf or why do you think affli still will be so good?

I am not sure why you would have completely changed specs based on some early PTR patch notes lol...

The changes they have made so far to Affliction will have it right in line with everyone else. Play the spec you enjoy most

[refire]

With this thread I must ask, they not nerfing Affli to hell anymore? With some previous PTR notes, not gonna search them up they nerfed them really hard and with the cleave bosses in TOS + the rework of Destruction it was clearly better to switch to Destro.

Now I am getting confused. I took the decision to change to Destro, so now I am 51 destro 46 affli and 40 demo and I plan to be 58 or whatever when the TOS is out.

Any retraction of the nerf or why do you think affli still will be so good?

I just hit 52 with Aff playing casually doing my mythic NH progression, heroic clear, and getting a 10 a week plus world quests. With AK scaling I'll easily be 52 in all the weapons before ToS. After 52 the concordance gain is very very minimal (hell with it it's minimal, a 4% intellect proc up 30% of the time). If you have 51k intellect which is around where most people doing mythic content are the 1.1 billion AP required for trait 55 equates to a .3% intellect gain on an intellect proc that is up somewhere close to 30% of the time. Essentially it's not even close to a deal breaker having 52 or 56 or 58. Being 51 in a weapon now doesn't mean you've committed to it and are screwed if they make changes. If you only enjoy one spec, play that spec. If you want to bring what will help the raid the most, being 52 in everything will be relatively simple and having decent legendaries isn't to hard either with them dropping about one a week if not more with casual play.

It seems like if you took the PTR and put it on live right now, Demo would have a very slight edge in single target but still be more punished than the others with movement. Affliction kind of does everything well, not that far behind demo single target, not that far behind destro in cleave, the best in multi target and a pretty enjoyable spec that lets you have a cooldown now with the soul harvest change. Destro had it's super niche removed with the havoc changes but for progression it will still be the spec that can burn a priority add the best and it isn't to far behind in single target.

[Baconeggcheese]

With this thread I must ask, they not nerfing Affli to hell anymore? With some previous PTR notes, not gonna search them up they nerfed them really hard and with the cleave bosses in TOS + the rework of Destruction it was clearly better to switch to Destro.

Now I am getting confused. I took the decision to change to Destro, so now I am 51 destro 46 affli and 40 demo and I plan to be 58 or whatever when the TOS is out.

Any retraction of the nerf or why do you think affli still will be so good?

Affliction wasn't "nerfed to hell", they just shifted damage around to push it back to being a multi-dot spec instead of just being a 2nd ST sustained turret that was stepping hard on demo's toes.

Fair warning for the future, never go along with peoples kneejerk reactions to an early PTR build. Things are always constantly changing during PTR and tend to happen over the course of many builds. Not to mention they *still* haven't done fine tuning. So much could still change from one build to the next, so the best advice is play what you enjoy.

[Lucrece]

Play what you enjoy, period. Destro was most definitely not as strong as aff in NH and I still mained it because it's so much more fun. You'll still get kills.

[ComputerNerd]

I too was primarily destruction and have been since Legion drop because of the priority burst damage/spread cleave it offers... I also swapped to affliction and have been looting it for the last 2ish months and it looks like the aff helm will be the LAST legendary I loot in the spec. I still do not have Space-Time in destruction (have feretory, bracers and trinket - same as you)... I've been primarily leveling affliction (will be 51 in the next day or so) and have 44 into destruction - will go back once I have concordance in affliction. We still have quite a lot of time left until ToS and AK levels are increasingly beneficial as time goes on. Legendary items are acquired so frequently at this point in time... You can safely expect one to drop every week/two weeks tops if you play the game on an average level (emissaries, broken shore caches, raids, some M+ and dungeons).

At the end of the day, if you only have the time to raid log... Legion isn't as friendly to you relatively speaking but if you can at least put time in on the weekend I wouldn't worry too much. Soon enough, everyone will have their BIS legendaries and enough AP to play more than one spec at a viable level. If I were you, I'd play what makes you happy because all three of our specs are viable and competitive.

What is defined a "viable level" isn't something blizzard defines, but the community.
Pretty soon I expect that is going to be unnecessarily decided to be at least first Concordance.

[Deleted]

I did the lfr once with affli at ptr and won 2/3 bosses at dps. Might have been bad players against me, but everyones gear was atleast scaled on same ilvl

[Gaidax]

I did the lfr once with affli at ptr and won 2/3 bosses at dps. Might have been bad players against me, but everyones gear was atleast scaled on same ilvl

And I "won" all bosses as Destro, then I looked at log and one glance was enough that people played with their feet because it's still LFR and nobody gives a shit.

[slickwilly]

And I "won" all bosses as Destro, then I looked at log and one glance was enough that people played with their feet because it's still LFR and nobody gives a shit.

Did mommy make you the wrong flavored pop tarts this morning. I think someone needs a timeout

Infracted - Woz

[Walrock]

Did mommy make you the wrong flavored pop tarts this morning. I think someone needs a timeout

What Gaidax said is simply right, whats wrong with you?

LFR is a horrible method to determine whats "good" and whats "viable", even worse in a ptr environment.

It's ok to run into to look at general encounter design.
Like "will there be small adds?" Which will make Aff strong.
"Is there spread prio target cleave?" Destro is your spec.
"Is it a council fight?" Aff changes will make it very strong there.

I could go on and on, but in the end is it encounter design what makes a spec "viable" in a tier.
I'm pretty sure you will have zero problems with either of the specs when it comes to ToS, play what you enjoy, you will have your strong and your semi strong encounters with your spec.

[Shandalar]

Neither affli or destro. Demon will reign supreme over warlocks at ToS.

[Lucrece]

Demo's a total gimmick spec that at best might be used for patchwerk fights. Affliction will probably still overshadow it in single target with any movement involved, especially now that damage has been shifted out of MG.

Demo can't spread cleave worth a shit, it can't do damage to priority adds, it has by FAR the worst ramp up of all warlock specs, and it has god awful aoe when targets aren't neatly clumped for your HoG imps demonwrath.

Demo needs a flat overhaul, because it's just a shitty version of an assassination rogue with far more ramp up and even worse target switching. I'd take a frost mage who can cleave far better and still do better aoe to boot, on top of being supremely more mobile.

[pappaslop]

What is defined a "viable level" isn't something blizzard defines, but the community.
Pretty soon I expect that is going to be unnecessarily decided to be at least first Concordance.

Of course the community defines it but I'd argue it essentially defines itself...

Obviously, much of this "definition" is subjective but at the end of the day - AP is extremely simple and continues to be even more easy every five days... I guess it doesn't bother me much because the grind in WOW has always been pretty soft and will always be soft in comparison to other games.

I got concordance in aff yesterday and am 45 in destruction (will easily be concordance before ToS comes out)... This is with primarily a "weekend" schedule and without tirelessly grinding M+. If people are smart with their time it's a nonissue (at least IMO).

[Deleted]

And I "won" all bosses as Destro, then I looked at log and one glance was enough that people played with their feet because it's still LFR and nobody gives a shit.

You can be as negative as you like, doesn't bother me, but most of the time it seems that if your spec doesn't do atleast 30% more dps than any other spec in game it is totally garbage.

Isn't it better still to be at the top if you play correctly yourself, than in the middle or bottom.

[Deleted]

Affliction wasn't "nerfed to hell", they just shifted damage around to push it back to being a multi-dot spec instead of just being a 2nd ST sustained turret that was stepping hard on demo's toes.

Fair warning for the future, never go along with peoples kneejerk reactions to an early PTR build. Things are always constantly changing during PTR and tend to happen over the course of many builds. Not to mention they *still* haven't done fine tuning. So much could still change from one build to the next, so the best advice is play what you enjoy.

Your right to a limit, I don't listen to random people. I listned to one officer in the guild that tried the PTR. Usually I dont take anything in advance from PTR's which has caused me 0 problems, don't know why I listned and did not do it this time. I will go 52 tomorrow and then fix 50-52 before it it hits on affli as well without a problem.

As TOS is qutie different and have some cleave bosses, I guess it will be good to have destro in the end as well without a doubt. Having gear and BIS for both does not hurt.

[ComputerNerd]

Of course the community defines it but I'd argue it essentially defines itself...

Obviously, much of this "definition" is subjective but at the end of the day - AP is extremely simple and continues to be even more easy every five days... I guess it doesn't bother me much because the grind in WOW has always been pretty soft and will always be soft in comparison to other games.

I got concordance in aff yesterday and am 45 in destruction (will easily be concordance before ToS comes out)... This is with primarily a "weekend" schedule and without tirelessly grinding M+. If people are smart with their time it's a nonissue (at least IMO).

What is required, and what players dictate is very different.
You could understand some pressure in the very highest tiers of content, but this is an attitude that spreads way further than that.
If it was defined, it would be a forced requirement, which it is not.

You have had the time to gain AK, which a newer player will not have had.
No matter their progression in terms of gearing, that will be something they can't rush.

[Livix]

Hopefully destro is gonna be good next patch.

[pappaslop]

You have had the time to gain AK, which a newer player will not have had.
No matter their progression in terms of gearing, that will be something they can't rush.

Very true but thankfully you can buy up to 25 instantly and do the quest for 26...

I've had a few friends come back since 7.2.5 and they are already raid ready and beyond. It could be a LOT worse, now is a pretty good time to start back up again.

[ComputerNerd]

Very true but thankfully you can buy up to 25 instantly and do the quest for 26...

I've had a few friends come back since 7.2.5 and they are already raid ready and beyond. It could be a LOT worse, now is a pretty good time to start back up again.

Requiring you to have at least AK30, unless I am missing something.
That is the point, a player who has not had that time sunk into the game for whatever reason will no matter their gear progression will have that barrier, one that at lower levels of AK simply isn't realistic to get.
Only time gives you that, nothing else.
So it is silly of players to have that expectation.