So what replaced Thal'dranath?

[potis]

Since there seem to be a few people that think this is another thred to shit on Blizzard - No, it is not. As I've said already, I don't care wheter things get cut or not. Even if those things have been announced already.

This is just to speculate/guess what was changed to remove Thal'dranath - which most people in here understood, thankfully.

Pretty sure its exactly as they said.

You already have broken shore as an "island with elven ruins" and "Suramar" as more Elves, so Argus was a better idea.

[huth]

Who said Argus was planned?

They cut Thal'dranath and announced Argus, so it's safe to say that they replaced it with Argus.

And Argus is much cooler ..

Anybody with half a clue how long things take. Switching from Thal'dranath to Broken Shore is relatively simple since most of it existed already and had to be done anyway. Argus is a completely seperate map. That takes way longer to do.

They also had to have at least the basic ideas of the raids set before they even went into alpha to make sure the artists create the right artwork, which is one of their biggest bottlenecks. They can't afford to waste art time. So Argus was set as a part of Legion long before Thal'dranath was scrapped.

[Tharkkun]

Yes, Blizzcon was pre-alpha too, sorry. I meant that Thal'dranath wasn't on the first map we got to see. However, it was on the Blizzcon map after that, and there was a lot of discussion about them adding it to the map when it was shown, and Blizzard clarified in a Q&A (might not have been the Blizzcon Q&A, but it was pretty soon afterward if not) that it was going to be patch content. Then alpha came out, the island remained a flat, blank area for a while, and then it was removed and Blizzard said it was being replaced with something better. There was a lot of threads here about it for a while and a lot of outrage when it was removed, because it was announced as patch content and people thought it was being cut before Blizzard announced Argus. Sorry if you missed all of that, but it did happen.

Nah your timelines are really out of order here. It showed up in Alpha as an empty island. Got cut. Internet went crazy. Blizzard put a quick blurb out about them doing something cooler instead. It was still never announced or talked about up to this point. It was then covered in the Q&A with Watcher months later.

We still don't know what it was actually replaced by. That hasn't been made clear and probably never will be. It could be Argus. It might be the broken shore we have now.

[Lillyth]

What is it with Blizzard and always showing some god forsaken island on a map for the new expansion. Then cutting it out which in turn creates a shit storm.

Planning. They have to allocate the space they planned with it prior to it actually being finalized or getting the detail work. Same happened to Suramar during the alpha/beta

[Deleted]

ocean.

[SirCowdog]

That's not how blizzard works, if anyone watched blizzcon during the announcement of D3 or were there to try out the arenas you would know that Blizz can change whatever you're seeing on the big screen or at the booths. PvP was added like a year after D3's release and was not even the promised arenas that was advertised on the physical box.

I'm not talking about how they do work. We all know how they actually conduct themselves. I'm talking about how they SHOULD work. Game companies in general get away with things that other businesses would be crucified for. All I'm suggesting is that consumers hold them to the same standards they would any other business or company instead of just brushing it off as "Oh it's just Blizzard's way of doing things!"

[TheFirstOnes]

ocean. blizzard doesnt care this game.

Or...OR...OR!

Thal'dranath was re-named as the former Broken Shore, and that the reasoning for why it was replaced, was for Argus to happen?!

I mean, it also really wasn't replaced....

So...they kind of delivered. Even if it costed us another isle. Thal'dranath/The Broken shore are of the same isle, and we're also getting Argus along with it....

Pretty smart move on Blizzard's part, actually.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Or...OR...OR!

Thal'dranath was re-named as the former Broken Shore, and that the reasoning for why it was replaced, was for Argus to happen?!

I mean, it also really wasn't replaced....

So...they kind of delivered. Even if it costed us another isle. Thal'dranath/The Broken shore are of the same isle, and we're also getting Argus along with it....

Pretty smart move on Blizzard's part, actually.

Umm... no. In the original preview, they were separate islands. In the current incarnation, they're the same. Regardless, the discussion is centered on the removal of the highlighted island.

[Niwes]

Hey there,

we've known for a while that Thal'Dranath, an island west of Stormheim, got scrapped during development. Since it was as big as a normal zone, it's safe to assume that it was going to be the center of a big content patch.

The reasoning for the removal was "We replaced it with something that's not another isles with elven ruins"

That was almost a year ago. With Patch 7.2 being released and 7.3 to be confirmed as Argus, I can't wrap my head around this "replacing" argument. Both Argus and the Broken Shore seemed to be safe bets for content from the get go, so I don't think they meant either of those options when talking about the replacement. But there was always that one content patch, that slightly shifted away from the main baddie of the expansion. ( Very slightly! )
Ulduar, Firelands, Throne of Thunder, that sort of thing. Thal'dranath would have fit perfectly in there, I think. But since Argus seems to be very final for Legion, I doubt we're going to see this "replacement" at all.

Am I missing something here?

this is, imo, a horrible stupid question. bc cutted things dont get "replaced" in any way. they were cutted bc of time reasons or anything else. if it wouldnt so, they simply wouldnt be cutted. nearly in all sw projects i ever did, when things cutted, they were cutted. and that was it. some times later, when again is time, we did other things.

but there is nearly never such a thing as "we cut x for y". its just stupid to ask such shit that never happened like what the question implies.

[TheFirstOnes]

Umm... no. In the original preview, they were separate islands. In the current incarnation, they're the same. Regardless, the discussion is centered on the removal of the highlighted island.

.....

*Facepalms*

Idc about the Original preview. I care about the Now.

[deadman1]

Anybody with half a clue how long things take. Switching from Thal'dranath to Broken Shore is relatively simple since most of it existed already and had to be done anyway. Argus is a completely seperate map. That takes way longer to do.

2015 to late 2017 is plenty of time to make one raid and reuse some fel textures.

They also had to have at least the basic ideas of the raids set before they even went into alpha to make sure the artists create the right artwork, which is one of their biggest bottlenecks. They can't afford to waste art time. So Argus was set as a part of Legion long before Thal'dranath was scrapped.

They literally said that Thal'dranath was a blank island with a name and nothing else, even when they showed it at blizzcon 2015.

Somehow you don't think it's possible to make Argus and an Argus Raid, but you think it's possible to make Thal'dranath and a Thal'Dranath raid ... you literally contradicted yourself within your own statement.


Stop acting like you know what you're talking about if you don't actually know what you're talking about.

[Vichan]

Yes, it's Argus. My theory is that Legion also was planned as 1 year/2 tiers expansion. In this scenario Broken Shore would be too small for last patch zone, so Tal'dranath would be extension of that. But after Warlords fiasco they decided to add another tier.

Beside, long before Blizzcon I remember that me and many others was telling that we will go to Argus in patch, but most people believed that Legion will end in Tomb and Argus will be next expansion.

false. they already said they were no longer pushing for that well before legion ever happened

[Queen of Hamsters]

Broken Shore was in from the get go. My money is on Argus.

Won't stop people from coming up with all these theories on how superior Thal'dranath would've been and how lazy the devs were for cutting it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm not talking about how they do work. We all know how they actually conduct themselves. I'm talking about how they SHOULD work. Game companies in general get away with things that other businesses would be crucified for. All I'm suggesting is that consumers hold them to the same standards they would any other business or company instead of just brushing it off as "Oh it's just Blizzard's way of doing things!"

Probably because game development works much differently then other businesses. Shocker

[Deleted]

Argus, but i hate that they cut stuff. I'd rather azsuna island to the broken shore.

[Deleted]

"We replaced it with something that's not another isles with elven ruins"

"Here, have this black rock with green goo! It's so much more exiting than elven ruins!"


The sad thing is, you can't even tell if it's Broken Shore or Argus.

Also it's kinda weird to assume Broken Shore and Argus were not planned from the get go. They are very essential to the plot and Thal'Dranath was removed at a point where the basic outline of the expansion HAD to be finalized. They weren't like, 5 month before launch: "ey yo, dudes, let's add Argus!"


Also during BC I was so curious to see the Netherstorm pre-deloation. When they announced WoD I was so happy for that zone! And they explained it away with the same bullshit. "It wasn't exiting enough". Make it exiting! It's your job! It's not even hard! I would be more happy if they were a bit more honest: "We mismanaged and the workload got too big, so we had to cut something. Those things happen when developing video games."

[Relapses]

"We replaced it with something that's not another isles with elven ruins"

"Here, have this black rock with green goo! It's so much more exiting than elven ruins!"


The sad thing is, you can't even tell if it's Broken Shore or Argus.

Also it's kinda weird to assume Broken Shore and Argus were not planned from the get go. They are very essential to the plot and Thal'Dranath was removed at a point where the basic outline of the expansion HAD to be finalized. They weren't like, 5 month before launch: "ey yo, dudes, let's add Argus!"


Also during BC I was so curious to see the Netherstorm pre-deloation. When they announced WoD I was so happy for that zone! And they explained it away with the same bullshit. "It wasn't exiting enough". Make it exiting! It's your job! It's not even hard! I would be more happy if they were a bit more honest: "We mismanaged and the workload got too big, so we had to cut something. Those things happen when developing video games."

Or, more likely, they're developers who develop the game they want to make rather than adhering to whatever arbitrary pedestal players place early-concept content upon.

[Leodok]

I think it's Argus.
Maybe Blizzard intended to have Sargeras invade through a portal in Thal'dranah and then be killed. Maybe they just weren't planning to kill him.
We'll likely find out in a random Q&A by the end of the xpack.

[Paula Deen]

Obviously the Broken Shore.

[Coffeexbean]

legion was likely the nighthold tier, then thal dranath and then a finish at the broken shore with kiljaeden as the last boss of the expansion before it got scrapped for argus at the end