Trump Fires FBI Director Comey

[Truhan]

"Voting week" is just further extending early voting that some states offer, but yes, every state should have early voting like that.

Also more mail in ballots. People are more likely to vote if they can do it at their leisure.

Yeah, I don't know how to put it, but early voting isn't marketed as well as voting day. If you had a three day series where results were being reported in real time that ended on a Sunday, it might drive up turnout. And yes, standardizing early voting across all states and more mail-in voting (which, again, needs more awareness/education to help voters utilize it) would be very good. But again, this is getting quite a ways off topic and it's not like any of it will ever happen.

[Ripster42]

We already have a 2-round system -- it's called the primaries. Granted, the American primary system also failed in 2016, but it wasn't sudden and it wasn't because of some flaw in the system.

Primaries are great in theory because you don't have to vote for a lesser evil. For example, as a Republican at the GOP primary, you have the opportunity to vote for the Republican among a field of Republicans who best fits your priorities. In the Democratic primary, I had the option of voting for Bernie Sanders without fear that doing so would be a vote for a Republican, and specifically Donald Trump. In theory, mind you.

The problem is that participation in our elections, and particularly in our primaries, has been pitifully low. At the end of the day, Democrat and Republican are both clubs that make their own rules and run their own shows. But membership in those clubs is free and open to anyone. Because people chose not to show up for these things, long-established party figures are better able to institute themselves and consolidate political power. Instead of choosing responsible, accountable Democrats to represent our ideas, we allowed corrupt elites like Hillary to helps themselves to our representation. She made us look bad and we paid for it.

Maybe I could agree on 2-round primaries with a final winner-take-all vote, but I don't see how you get Americans to show up to more than 1 election when voter turnout is already in the low 40s%

Primaries are not part of governmental elections. They're private, organizational polls to decide who those organizations are going to put resources behind. Members of the general public don't get to vote in primaries. You have to be a member of those organizations to vote in those polls. It feels like you've got 1/2 an idea of the difference between party elections and governmental elections, but are kinda confused on the specifics.

An actual 2 round system would allow people to have their "protest vote" to vote whatever party they want, including 3rd parties, and still have a say in the final outcome.

[NYC17]

Manafort's probably not sleeping much...

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...-n-y-s-top-cop

[Ghostpanther]

We already have a 2-round system -- it's called the primaries. Granted, the American primary system also failed in 2016, but it wasn't sudden and it wasn't because of some flaw in the system.

Primaries are great in theory because you don't have to vote for a lesser evil. For example, as a Republican at the GOP primary, you have the opportunity to vote for the Republican among a field of Republicans who best fits your priorities. In the Democratic primary, I had the option of voting for Bernie Sanders without fear that doing so would be a vote for a Republican, and specifically Donald Trump. In theory, mind you.

The problem is that participation in our elections, and particularly in our primaries, has been pitifully low. At the end of the day, Democrat and Republican are both clubs that make their own rules and run their own shows. But membership in those clubs is free and open to anyone. Because people chose not to show up for these things, long-established party figures are better able to institute themselves and consolidate political power. Instead of choosing responsible, accountable Democrats to represent our ideas, we allowed corrupt elites like Hillary to helps themselves to our representation. She made us look bad and we paid for it.

Maybe I could agree on 2-round primaries with a final winner-take-all vote, but I don't see how you get Americans to show up to more than 1 election when voter turnout is already in the low 40s%

55.3% voted in 2016, which was a higher percentage than in 1996 when it was 53.5%. So it was higher than 40s%. :P

[Slybak]

We already have a 2-round system -- it's called the primaries. Granted, the American primary system also failed in 2016, but it wasn't sudden and it wasn't because of some flaw in the system.

Both the Democratic and Republican primaries produced the outcome desired by a majority of the people who participated in them. I don't see how a nominally democratic system that produces a factually democratic result can be described as a failure.

Maybe I could agree on 2-round primaries with a final winner-take-all vote, but I don't see how you get Americans to show up to more than 1 election when voter turnout is already in the low 40s%

The number one cited reason by non-voters as to why the don't vote, in survey after survey, is some variation of "I couldn't get to a polling place." Work, illness, disability, lack of transportation, etc. Second-most cited reason is "I forgot to register." Third-most cited reason is usually "I didn't know there was an election.

To fix this, we can do four things

1) Hold every election on a Saturday or Sunday, and provide a period of one month for early voting by mail.

2) Enshrine into law nation-wide legal protections for people who need to take off work in order to vote - for those who work weekends - and mandate that this time off be paid.

3) Automatically and permanently register every citizen to vote on their 18th birthday.

4) Allow Same Day voter registration in all jurisdictions nation-wide, provided the applicant can provide documentary proof of primary residence.

Several states already do most of these already (moving the actual day of voting for President/VP/Congress requires a change in Federal law), so just make them nationwide. It's why Minnesota had a ~75% voter turnout rate and West Virginia had a ~50% turnout rate in the last election.

[Stormspark]

Both the Democratic and Republican primaries produced the outcome desired by a majority of the people who participated in them. I don't see how a nominally democratic system that produces a factually democratic result can be described as a failure.


The number one cited reason by non-voters as to why the don't vote, in survey after survey, is some variation of "I couldn't get to a polling place." Work, illness, disability, lack of transportation, etc. Second-most cited reason is "I forgot to register." Third-most cited reason is usually "I didn't know there was an election.

To fix this, we can do four things

1) Hold every election on a Saturday or Sunday, and provide a period of one month for early voting by mail.

2) Enshrine into law nation-wide legal protections for people who need to take off work in order to vote - for those who work weekends - and mandate that this time off be paid.

3) Automatically and permanently register every citizen to vote on their 18th birthday.

4) Allow Same Day voter registration in all jurisdictions nation-wide, provided the applicant can provide documentary proof of primary residence.

Several states already do most of these already (moving the actual day of voting for President/VP/Congress requires a change in Federal law), so just make them nationwide. It's why Minnesota had a ~75% voter turnout rate and West Virginia had a ~50% turnout rate in the last election.

Election day just needs to be a mandatory national holiday. You know, like it is in civilized countries.

[Slybak]

Yeah, I don't know how to put it, but early voting isn't marketed as well as voting day.

If you think early voting isn't marketed well, wait until you find out how many states allow you to take paid time off from work to get to a polling place.

Hint: It's slightly less than half of them.

[callipygoustp]

Election day just needs to be a mandatory national holiday. You know, like it is in civilized countries.

Certainly a worthy event to celebrate with a day off.

[Blur4stuff]

It's gonna be really hard to expand voting in red states, though. When you expand voting days and put up less barriers for citizens to vote it means republicans do worse.

One upside of a Trump presidency is that things are going to be such a huge mess (like with Comey) that it could potentially give one of the biggest blue waves in history in 2020. Taking control back in some states will make things a lot more fair compared to the lopsided tragedy that currently exists.

[Wyrt]

Election day just needs to be a mandatory national holiday. You know, like it is in civilized countries.

Of course. Still needs early voting for people who work in jobs where you can't get the day off. Like cops, fire fighters, ER doctors, etc.

[vondevon]

A bit off topic, but a good start would probably be to move election day from fucking Tuesday to a weekend. Another idea I've mentally toyed with is the idea of a "voting week" (which would actually just be three or so days of voting) because some people have jobs that don't give them the traditional Saturday/Sunday off --snip--

Yeah, I don't know how to put it, but early voting isn't marketed as well as voting day. If you had a three day series where results were being reported in real time that ended on a Sunday, it might drive up turnout.

Agreed. And as someone further down notes, election day is not the only problem. There was a movement recently to have our election system considered critical infrastructure, which I could get behind to some degree. I don't believe in a centralized voting system (the decentralized and disparate nature of our election process makes it nearly impossible to commit large-scale, coordinated voter fraud; despite what the Don says) but I think a federally regulated and maintained voter registration process might be a good step, because it allows us to funnel get-out-the-vote resources in a way that isn't inherently partisan or impacted by local economics/infrastructure.

In short though, agree on better messaging and more time to vote.

Primaries are not part of governmental elections. They're private, organizational polls to decide who those organizations are going to put resources behind. Members of the general public don't get to vote in primaries. You have to be a member of those organizations to vote in those polls. It feels like you've got 1/2 an idea of the difference between party elections and governmental elections, but are kinda confused on the specifics..

Please read my whole post before deciding I'm wrong. I did address this in my post.

"At the end of the day, Democrat and Republican are both clubs that make their own rules and run their own shows. But membership in those clubs is free and open to anyone. Because people chose not to show up for these things, long-established party figures are better able to institute themselves and consolidate political power."

Both the Democratic and Republican primaries produced the outcome desired by a majority of the people who participated in them. I don't see how a nominally democratic system that produces a factually democratic result can be described as a failure.

I was specifically replying to someone else's comment about the electoral college system and how it failed to stop a demagogue, by which they meant the successful election of Donald Trump to the office of President.

The number one cited reason by non-voters as to why the don't vote, in survey after survey, is some variation of "I couldn't get to a polling place." Work, illness, disability, lack of transportation, etc. Second-most cited reason is "I forgot to register." Third-most cited reason is usually "I didn't know there was an election.

To fix this, we can do four things

1) Hold every election on a Saturday or Sunday, and provide a period of one month for early voting by mail.

2) Enshrine into law nation-wide legal protections for people who need to take off work in order to vote - for those who work weekends - and mandate that this time off be paid.

3) Automatically and permanently register every citizen to vote on their 18th birthday.

4) Allow Same Day voter registration in all jurisdictions nation-wide, provided the applicant can provide documentary proof of primary residence.

Several states already do most of these already (moving the actual day of voting for President/VP/Congress requires a change in Federal law), so just make them nationwide. It's why Minnesota had a ~75% voter turnout rate and West Virginia had a ~50% turnout rate in the last election.

See above about voter turn-out

[atlings]

Wow, 166 pages. And Trumpists say people don't care about this.

[Ripster42]

Please read my whole post before deciding I'm wrong. I did address this in my post.

I did read the whole thing. Which is why I said it seems like you 1/2 way understand the difference between government and private organizations, but are confused on the specifics. An actual 2 round voting system has 2 rounds at the governmental level, not one decided by private organizations and one at the government level. You clearly don't understand why people want two rounds at the governmental level.

[atlings]

A bit off topic, but a good start would probably be to move election day from fucking Tuesday to a weekend. Another idea I've mentally toyed with is the idea of a "voting week" (which would actually just be three or so days of voting) because some people have jobs that don't give them the traditional Saturday/Sunday off and sometimes have you work an 18 hour shift because a co-worker's wife had to give birth and nobody else knows how to work the night shift (like my old security job). I dunno if it would work, but I think it would be a lot better than just having this one random day that most people will be too tired to drag their asses out of bed to go wait in line for several hours. At the very least, having multiple days all treated like election day might drive down some of the long lines on the last day.

I'm pretty sure this is done on purpose to keep poor people from voting. If you have a low status job, chances are you won't get time off to go vote or you'll be docked pay. The US election system is full of little impediments like this.

[Slybak]

I'm pretty sure this is done on purpose to keep poor people from voting. If you have a low status job, chances are you won't get time off to go vote or you'll be docked pay. The US election system is full of little impediments like this.

It was set to a Tuesday in 1845 because, due to the majority of the country living in rural areas and the time it took to travel by horse, putting election day on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday could conflict with church services. The more conservative minded were concerned people might skip church to vote, the more liberal minded were concerned that people might skip voting to go to church.

Before that, states could hold their elections at anytime within 34 days of the electors meeting in their respective state capitals. November was always ideal because it was the first month after the harvest season, when farmers (who were most people) weren't preoccupied with field work.

They shifted it to a uniform date so that some states couldn't hold their elections well before or well after other states in an attempt to have a bigger impact on the final results. It was made the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November because that will always be 29 days before the electors met, so there would never be a need to change that part of the law.

There's something of an urban legend that it was put on that day because it would never conflict with All Saints' Day, a Catholic feast day, which falls on November 1st, but mid-19th century Americans weren't especially fond of Catholics and likely preferred that they didn't vote because that might turn the Republic into a dominion of Papist heresy.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Ok, if that's your position then you add in all the people who didn't vote and get the same results. See, the people who voted gave us a certain result and if you assign the people who didn't vote according to that then you get the same results. Genius.

It'd be the same if the proportions of people that didn't vote were the same as the people that did. But they aren't. The largest group of non voters were young people...and as I have already stated...young people tend to vote democratic rather than republican. Genius.

[Wikko]

Election day just needs to be a mandatory national holiday. You know, like it is in civilized countries.

Or you could just have the election on sunday and if someone has to work then, they must be given the time to go and vote. It isnt rocket science

[Surfd]

It's gonna be really hard to expand voting in red states, though. When you expand voting days and put up less barriers for citizens to vote it means republicans do worse.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Give them enough time with Trump at the wheel distracting people from what is happening in the background, and it will be practically impossible to vote them out of office.

Fun fact that probably flew under the radar of most people who are too fixated on the Trump Circus: In the shadow of the Comey firing hoopla, the head of the Census Bureau resigned. If the republicans manage to replace him with a party stooge, there is a good chance they could fuck up your voting districts in pretty massive ways. EC vote weights are based on census data. If the republicans can manipulate the census, you may end up with shit like cali losing EC votes to red states. Federal level gerrymandering could literally become a thing.

[Mormolyce]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Give them enough time with Trump at the wheel distracting people from what is happening in the background, and it will be practically impossible to vote them out of office.

Fun fact that probably flew under the radar of most people who are too fixated on the Trump Circus: In the shadow of the Comey firing hoopla, the head of the Census Bureau resigned. If the republicans manage to replace him with a party stooge, there is a good chance they could fuck up your voting districts in pretty massive ways. EC vote weights are based on census data. If the republicans can manipulate the census, you may end up with shit like cali losing EC votes to red states. Federal level gerrymandering could literally become a thing.

Manipulating the census would be a lot of work for relatively little gain. The EC is already so fucked up by the two votes per state rule that gerrymandering the population-based votes wouldn't have much effect.

It's the WTA rule that really screws up the system though, next to that the disproportionate representation is small potatoes.

[Wyrt]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Give them enough time with Trump at the wheel distracting people from what is happening in the background, and it will be practically impossible to vote them out of office.

Fun fact that probably flew under the radar of most people who are too fixated on the Trump Circus: In the shadow of the Comey firing hoopla, the head of the Census Bureau resigned. If the republicans manage to replace him with a party stooge, there is a good chance they could fuck up your voting districts in pretty massive ways. EC vote weights are based on census data. If the republicans can manipulate the census, you may end up with shit like cali losing EC votes to red states. Federal level gerrymandering could literally become a thing.

California is already massively underrepresented by the electoral college and in the House.