Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood

[Kittahsmash]

Can't wait to start datamining SB during the 24hour maintenance before Early Access \o/

[The Casualty]

Spells that are just boring stims are likely on the chopping block or getting rolled into one cooldown (so blood for blood, inner release, ect.), I'm not sure what that would crop out from Ninja, a lot of it are things that are useful like smoke screen so Nin's in an odd place there

Also, to sorta call out the discussion earlier in the post, Samurai could well be flashier than we're showing, the context has been different, but we've only seen two of their spells and their LB (the charged sorta blade beams and the one that makes a crescent), I imagine they're holding back the really crazy looking spells for the wow factor

They could get rid of Mug for all I care. I mean I hit it on CD, but at 1.5pps, its effect on overall dps or combat outcome is pretty negligible. They could also drop dancing edge and roll it's effects into a trait of Aeolian Edge. If you have a WAR in your party you haven't been using that ability outside of the rare instance where you can ONLY hit the front or you are at your 3rd tier combo during a target swap.

Trick Attack could just be a trait off of Sneak Attack, or vice versa.

The poisons maybe? I mean really all they do aside from a static buff that could already be baked into the class is change whether you can stun or silence with Jugulate, I'm not even counting that crappy heal from Mug.

Aside from condensing cross class abilities, I can't think of anything else. There are other abilities that I wouldn't necessarily keep on my bars, but I wouldn't want them removed, nor would it solve the issue of bloat.

[Wrecktangle]

Most of the player base for FF 14 isn't long time mmo players. It's catered more towards the final fantasy fan. And it's also available on console. If you make the content more difficult for the max level players running roulettes, you push out the newer players that are trying to learn the game. You are correct, it does suck getting the dungeons especially the dungeons under 30. But the entire point of the roulette is to get higher level players helping the new ones. I have no issues running these, getting my reward, and helping new players out.

I don't think its fair for you to assume the actual break up of the FF14 playerbase unless this data was published somewhere (if you have it a link would be great).

I just wish there was a way to make these things more exciting for max level players. I know that if the SYNC system was a little more on the conservative side, rather than overtuning you.

And yes, it does break up the monotany. I rarely run ex roulette, because seeing the same two dungeons bores me. Nothing to do with the difficulty, the environment wares me down. Seeing the same zone each day wares me down. People are stimulated by different things, and for me, the visuals killing the same mobs, doing the same mechanic dance every day is more disengaging then anything. It's why I quit legion after four months. I got bored of seeing the same dungeons, emerald nightmare, and then nighthold repeatedly. I need variety.

Fair enough, you and I share that sentiment.

The rewards I'm referring to are different depending on if you're running the dungeon as a max level character or not. For max level characters the reward is the tomes, which can be used to purchase max level gear, items for your anima weapon grind (which you need a TON of), or tokens for weapons. Tome acquisition can occur in many areas, so running the leveling roulette is just one of many options to acquire them. Whether you feel the reward is enough is a personal feeling, but the fact remains that IF you decided to do the roulette you would get tomes which are a relevant and level appropriate rewards that a max level character can use.

If you're not yet max level then you get an xp reward that is appropriate for your level when running the leveling roulette, that can be anywhere from ~15% to 50+% of a level, and the base enemy kill xp coupled with that bonus can be worth up to an entire level or more depending on what level you are and what dungeon you run. Again, whether you fell this reward is worth running the dungeon is another discussion, my point is IF you decided to run it you would get a reward towards character progression that is appropriate for your level.

Ah yes I do remember that now.

[Resiak]

I don't think its fair for you to assume the actual break up of the FF14 playerbase unless this data was published somewhere (if you have it a link would be great).

I just wish there was a way to make these things more exciting for max level players. I know that if the SYNC system was a little more on the conservative side, rather than overtuning you.

Your right. I'm making an assumption based on anecdotal evidence from the fc's i've been in. But, my message is still the same. You can't develop with the idea that people are experienced mmo players. You will turn off true new players trying to learn the mechanics. As a developer myself (not game), I have to develop my applications as if the user has never touched a computer in their life. It's the same thing here, if you cater the lower level dungeons to people syncing down for roulettes, you stand the chance of chasing off new players still learning.

As for making things more interesting for max level players. I'm not sure what the answer is. Syncing down to tam tara level content will never be all that fun. I personally think leveling roulette needs broken up. 15-29, 30-49, 50, 51-59, 60, and finally Ex which would be the last two patches...not just the last patch. The power gamers can have more roulettes to keep them busy, and if people dont want to sync too far back, they have options...i personally am not a fan of playing below 30 as the jobs are more interesting to me then the early classes.

I'm still ok with the idea of keeping all abilities, just synced down. Someone argued that it would cause people to reject lower level players because it happened in GW2, but i dont think it would be as much an issue here. The games are vastly different. When I played GW2, the dungeons where pretty hard, so i could see people trying to maximize their chances. You could also control this by putting extra controls on the kick option. Not totally sure how to manage that off hand, but there are ways.

[Faroth]

Everyone we've added to our FC since Heavensward launched are experiencing FFXIV as their first ever MMO as well. Yoshida frequently talks about designs in 2.x having been built with "first ever MMO" in mind as well as crafting a Final Fantasy main-entry worthy story as focal points of the design philosophy.

[Katchii]

Your right. I'm making an assumption based on anecdotal evidence from the fc's i've been in. But, my message is still the same. You can't develop with the idea that people are experienced mmo players. You will turn off true new players trying to learn the mechanics. As a developer myself (not game), I have to develop my applications as if the user has never touched a computer in their life. It's the same thing here, if you cater the lower level dungeons to people syncing down for roulettes, you stand the chance of chasing off new players still learning.

As for making things more interesting for max level players. I'm not sure what the answer is. Syncing down to tam tara level content will never be all that fun. I personally think leveling roulette needs broken up. 15-29, 30-49, 50, 51-59, 60, and finally Ex which would be the last two patches...not just the last patch. The power gamers can have more roulettes to keep them busy, and if people dont want to sync too far back, they have options...i personally am not a fan of playing below 30 as the jobs are more interesting to me then the early classes.

I'm still ok with the idea of keeping all abilities, just synced down. Someone argued that it would cause people to reject lower level players because it happened in GW2, but i dont think it would be as much an issue here. The games are vastly different. When I played GW2, the dungeons where pretty hard, so i could see people trying to maximize their chances. You could also control this by putting extra controls on the kick option. Not totally sure how to manage that off hand, but there are ways.

I don't know for sure, as Yoshi-P hasn't ever said it to my knowledge, and there aren't really any metrics for it...but my assumption is that the game overall is designed from the aspect of inclusion, to ensure lower level/ new players are able to experience the game the same way (for the most part) as experienced players did back when they experienced it. The leveling roulette including all dungeons and trials from 16-59 (Sastash to the Vault currently) is to ensure the players running through the story for the first time are able to get a group for the story required dungeons in a reasonable amount of time (or at all). I think it also helps breed the kind of community FFXIV has, which admittedly still has it's fair share of douchebags (just like any online community), but because players of all types and experiences are thrown together so often to accomplish the same goal and are actively discouraged from dismissing a group member unless they're harassing you, AFK, Offline or cheating, it's in the best interest of everyone involved to work together, give guidance and feedback, accept that guidance and feedback and actually interact with your group members in a meaningful supportive way rather than just kicking the person that may not be doing well for whatever reason.

You'll still find assholes who disregard advice and are downright hostile about it, but in those instances I'd vote dismiss them for harassment. I just wish FFXIV took a page from WoW book of dungeon finder and allowed players to exit and re-enter the dungeon while in queue for new players to repair, quest, etc...anything but just sit in the freakin dungeon waiting.

[Kazgrel]

Your right. I'm making an assumption based on anecdotal evidence from the fc's i've been in. But, my message is still the same. You can't develop with the idea that people are experienced mmo players. You will turn off true new players trying to learn the mechanics. As a developer myself (not game), I have to develop my applications as if the user has never touched a computer in their life. It's the same thing here, if you cater the lower level dungeons to people syncing down for roulettes, you stand the chance of chasing off new players still learning.

As for making things more interesting for max level players. I'm not sure what the answer is. Syncing down to tam tara level content will never be all that fun. I personally think leveling roulette needs broken up. 15-29, 30-49, 50, 51-59, 60, and finally Ex which would be the last two patches...not just the last patch. The power gamers can have more roulettes to keep them busy, and if people dont want to sync too far back, they have options...i personally am not a fan of playing below 30 as the jobs are more interesting to me then the early classes.

I'm still ok with the idea of keeping all abilities, just synced down. Someone argued that it would cause people to reject lower level players because it happened in GW2, but i dont think it would be as much an issue here. The games are vastly different. When I played GW2, the dungeons where pretty hard, so i could see people trying to maximize their chances. You could also control this by putting extra controls on the kick option. Not totally sure how to manage that off hand, but there are ways.

Even though I grit my teeth every time I queue leveling roulette, I do it minimum 3 times per week for the weekly singing cluster quest. Course, I end up running it more than that as of late, since I'm helping some friends level their alt jobs.

Splitting up the leveling roulette in such a manner, especially if each were to have a max level reward tied to them, would be nothing short of exhausting for folks trying to maximize the amount of tomes they get per day. I don't see them splitting it up like that; I personally know I would avoid any of them below 40 for sure...especially that 30-35 roulette, because Brayflox NM can go eat a dick with it's level 34 cap...and Sunken Temple with it's 37 cap was the bane of my BLM existence.

I'm not opposed to being able to use all the abilities at lower levels; personally I'd rather have that, even if it is unfair to the player(s) who are actually leveling up jobs so they don't have all those nice abilities from higher level. Nothing is more grating than going to use an ability, only to realize "Oh, I don't have that cause I'm synced to level whatever". Had 2 moments yesterday running leveling roulette (as WAR) with my friend in the Aery, one where I wanted to Decimate, the other where I pointed out I don't have Equilibrium. I get why they do it, which is why I brought up my example from GW2. Doesn't mean I particularly like it.

[dope_danny]

as well as crafting a Final Fantasy main-entry worthy story as focal points of the design philosophy.

Thats the key thing i never get about the folks that don't like the story. When its specifically called "Final Fantasy 14 Online" thats an online direct mainline numbered sequel in the series. The none shit middle child between 13 and 15's high budget mediocrity riding a brand to cover an unfinished product. Story is kind of the point.

Its a weird situations for mmos which by and large people treat nowadays as a race to make level where the world is a lobby for one relevant thing you chase for 6 months to a year till the next one. But of course the argument -and its always an argument- is there are so many alternatives for the story hating mmo player but no other high production level mmorpg where it is a group based story. And then it turns into the usual jrpg story heavy fans vs the western rpg power fantasy fans arguing over something thats clearly one type of game.

[Resiak]

I don't know for sure, as Yoshi-P hasn't ever said it to my knowledge, and there aren't really any metrics for it...but my assumption is that the game overall is designed from the aspect of inclusion, to ensure lower level/ new players are able to experience the game the same way (for the most part) as experienced players did back when they experienced it. The leveling roulette including all dungeons and trials from 16-59 (Sastash to the Vault currently) is to ensure the players running through the story for the first time are able to get a group for the story required dungeons in a reasonable amount of time (or at all). I think it also helps breed the kind of community FFXIV has, which admittedly still has it's fair share of douchebags (just like any online community), but because players of all types and experiences are thrown together so often to accomplish the same goal and are actively discouraged from dismissing a group member unless they're harassing you, AFK, Offline or cheating, it's in the best interest of everyone involved to work together, give guidance and feedback, accept that guidance and feedback and actually interact with your group members in a meaningful supportive way rather than just kicking the person that may not be doing well for whatever reason.

You'll still find assholes who disregard advice and are downright hostile about it, but in those instances I'd vote dismiss them for harassment. I just wish FFXIV took a page from WoW book of dungeon finder and allowed players to exit and re-enter the dungeon while in queue for new players to repair, quest, etc...anything but just sit in the freakin dungeon waiting.

Yeah, I understand why it is the way it is. I'm a big supporter of the roulette system because it's a big part of the reason the old group content stays alive. But sometimes it's frustrating. Since your only options after your first 60 (maybe 2nd if you saved all of the side quests) to level are leveling roulette and potd, the grind gets a bit stale. And getting Sastasha, halatali, and tam tara all the time makes it even worse. I'm not a huge fan of the classes. You don't really get much except your base rotation and a couple cool downs before 30. So my idea is just trying to figure out how to give people more options, but I also wouldnt want to take away from the new players that need us helping them.

- - - Updated - - -

Even though I grit my teeth every time I queue leveling roulette, I do it minimum 3 times per week for the weekly singing cluster quest. Course, I end up running it more than that as of late, since I'm helping some friends level their alt jobs.

Splitting up the leveling roulette in such a manner, especially if each were to have a max level reward tied to them, would be nothing short of exhausting for folks trying to maximize the amount of tomes they get per day. I don't see them splitting it up like that; I personally know I would avoid any of them below 40 for sure...especially that 30-35 roulette, because Brayflox NM can go eat a dick with it's level 34 cap...and Sunken Temple with it's 37 cap was the bane of my BLM existence.

I'm not opposed to being able to use all the abilities at lower levels; personally I'd rather have that, even if it is unfair to the player(s) who are actually leveling up jobs so they don't have all those nice abilities from higher level. Nothing is more grating than going to use an ability, only to realize "Oh, I don't have that cause I'm synced to level whatever". Had 2 moments yesterday running leveling roulette (as WAR) with my friend in the Aery, one where I wanted to Decimate, the other where I pointed out I don't have Equilibrium. I get why they do it, which is why I brought up my example from GW2. Doesn't mean I particularly like it.

Oh, I know the burn out it could cause a power gamer trying to use them all to grind. It's not my ideal fix. I prefer the synced down ability approach. One thing i think about is less experienced MMO players. Ones that may not be able to take to a rotation easily. POTD doesnt let you learn rotations very well. The dungeons are the best place to learn, but if the only zones you ever get are the bottom 3 or 4, your never going to get used to your higher level abilities.

[Katchii]

Yeah, I understand why it is the way it is. I'm a big supporter of the roulette system because it's a big part of the reason the old group content stays alive. But sometimes it's frustrating. Since your only options after your first 60 (maybe 2nd if you saved all of the side quests) to level are leveling roulette and potd, the grind gets a bit stale. And getting Sastasha, halatali, and tam tara all the time makes it even worse. I'm not a huge fan of the classes. You don't really get much except your base rotation and a couple cool downs before 30. So my idea is just trying to figure out how to give people more options, but I also wouldnt want to take away from the new players that need us helping them.

I just wish you could still use the abilities just scaled down to be level appropriate in power, like what SW:ToR does. I don't think this game would have the problem with kicking lower level players without those skills due to how it actively discourages and goes after people who abuse the system. I just see that making the already boring and trivial lower level dungeons even more trivial...just maybe a little less boring, and making the experience for new players in those dungeons pretty pointless since if they get grouped with higher level characters with all the abilities they wouldn't be contributing much.

There's no perfect solution, but I'm with you on the fact that getting the lower level dungeons as a max level character is not very fun, fulfilling or challenging. I'm just glad I get something worthwhile at the end of it when done through the roulete, which this is the first game I've ever played that at least has that going for it.

[Resiak]

I just wish you could still use the abilities just scaled down to be level appropriate in power, like what SW:ToR does. I don't think this game would have the problem with kicking lower level players without those skills due to how it actively discourages and goes after people who abuse the system. I just see that making the already boring and trivial lower level dungeons even more trivial...just maybe a little less boring, and making the experience for new players in those dungeons pretty pointless since if they get grouped with higher level characters with all the abilities they wouldn't be contributing much.

There's no perfect solution, but I'm with you on the fact that getting the lower level dungeons as a max level character is not very fun, fulfilling or challenging. I'm just glad I get something worthwhile at the end of it when done through the roulete, which this is the first game I've ever played that at least has that going for it.

Thats pretty much where i'm at with my second idea. Let us keep our abilities. Let newbies keep practicing their skills and not taking them away. Let me have fun jumping all over the place.

[Kazgrel]

I just wish you could still use the abilities just scaled down to be level appropriate in power, like what SW:ToR does. I don't think this game would have the problem with kicking lower level players without those skills due to how it actively discourages and goes after people who abuse the system. I just see that making the already boring and trivial lower level dungeons even more trivial...just maybe a little less boring, and making the experience for new players in those dungeons pretty pointless since if they get grouped with higher level characters with all the abilities they wouldn't be contributing much.

There's no perfect solution, but I'm with you on the fact that getting the lower level dungeons as a max level character is not very fun, fulfilling or challenging. I'm just glad I get something worthwhile at the end of it when done through the roulete, which this is the first game I've ever played that at least has that going for it.

I suppose it can be viewed as a manner of previewing high level abilities to new players, too. I recall being a sprout THM and my friend, who was level 50 on BLM, demonstrated Flare for me. That helped solidify my choice of having decided to level up BLM all the way back then, just so I could nuke things to smithereens with that spell.

[Wrecktangle]

Your right. I'm making an assumption based on anecdotal evidence from the fc's i've been in. But, my message is still the same. You can't develop with the idea that people are experienced mmo players. You will turn off true new players trying to learn the mechanics. As a developer myself (not game), I have to develop my applications as if the user has never touched a computer in their life. It's the same thing here, if you cater the lower level dungeons to people syncing down for roulettes, you stand the chance of chasing off new players still learning.

Ok I'll bite. I might have gotten way off topic previously. I don't mind low level dungeons being a good tutorial for new to MMO players. I'm actually 100% ok with this. In fact, I encourage it and thought that the level 1-50 "tutorial" actually did a better than half decent job at teaching me the ropes of the world.

The issue I have with the system is the scale down piece for max level players. I don't like being sync'd down to overpowered levels because what little engagement these dungeons provide is even further muddied at this point. While I absolutely abhor losing abilities, I think if FF14 followed the WoW timewalking approach (scaled down abilities) it'd be just as much of a snore as TW is. I mean, I stated earlier that I LITERALLY fell asleep in TW once. That's how boring that stuff was with how little danger/engagment was present that it literally put a player to sleep.

I don't have a good solution. I really don't. I think really you just need to give outstanding rewards to keep people doing it, which after some discussions/analysis I agree the tomes really are the best fit for that.

As for making things more interesting for max level players. I'm not sure what the answer is. Syncing down to tam tara level content will never be all that fun. I personally think leveling roulette needs broken up. 15-29, 30-49, 50, 51-59, 60, and finally Ex which would be the last two patches...not just the last patch. The power gamers can have more roulettes to keep them busy, and if people dont want to sync too far back, they have options...i personally am not a fan of playing below 30 as the jobs are more interesting to me then the early classes.

I don't think breaking up roulettes like that is a good idea. FF14 already throws way too much mundane content at our way. I desperately think it needs more robust content, not more quantity of content.

but because players of all types and experiences are thrown together so often to accomplish the same goal and are actively discouraged from dismissing a group member unless they're harassing you, AFK, Offline or cheating, it's in the best interest of everyone involved to work together, give guidance and feedback, accept that guidance and feedback and actually interact with your group members in a meaningful supportive way rather than just kicking the person that may not be doing well for whatever reason.

When you say 'actively discourage' what exactly are you referring to? I don't recall seeing any systems to discourage that type of behavior. Everything else makes sense and I agree with for the most part.

Thats the key thing i never get about the folks that don't like the story. When its specifically called "Final Fantasy 14 Online" thats an online direct mainline numbered sequel in the series. The none shit middle child between 13 and 15's high budget mediocrity riding a brand to cover an unfinished product. Story is kind of the point.

Actually if you want to get technical, based STRICTLY on the title, it sounds like Online is the main point not anything to do with a story. Key features of an online game? Collaborative team play or player vs. player. FF14 is severely lacking in its early game collaboration QoL features.

Its a weird situations for mmos which by and large people treat nowadays as a race to make level where the world is a lobby for one relevant thing you chase for 6 months to a year till the next one. But of course the argument -and its always an argument- is there are so many alternatives for the story hating mmo player but no other high production level mmorpg where it is a group based story. And then it turns into the usual jrpg story heavy fans vs the western rpg power fantasy fans arguing over something thats clearly one type of game.

You assume everything in absolutes as if there are only 2 types of players. People who want to raid only and people who only want a MSQ. The fact of the matter is that there are an endless number of gamer types who want all differing combinations of features in between that make up the majority of the playerbase.

You always go on about this concept of a "power gamer" as if they're the bad guy because you don't agree with them. I love becoming more and more powerful. Does that somehow mean that I don't care about story? No I happen to care very much so about the story. I also care about side content.

It's because I care that I want the game to strive to do better. You can hide behind your little safe space and cry foul when someone asks more of you, but the fact is the game can do better, and if you're truly as passionate about it as you pretend to be, you'd be less dismissive and condescending and more engaged.

[Faroth]

You assume everything in absolutes as if there are only 2 types of players. People who want to raid only and people who only want a MSQ. The fact of the matter is that there are an endless number of gamer types who want all differing combinations of features in between that make up the majority of the playerbase.

You always go on about this concept of a "power gamer" as if they're the bad guy because you don't agree with them. I love becoming more and more powerful. Does that somehow mean that I don't care about story? No I happen to care very much so about the story. I also care about side content.

It's because I care that I want the game to strive to do better. You can hide behind your little safe space and cry foul when someone asks more of you, but the fact is the game can do better, and if you're truly as passionate about it as you pretend to be, you'd be less dismissive and condescending and more engaged.

Probably becasue the only thing that's ever brought up is "the content needs to be more challenging and harder to be more engaging" 90% of the time.

There's never any suggestions for new Gold Saucer games, new ideas for content that doesn't somehow alter abilities, gameplay, or power level or isn't connected to harder content (usually raids 98% of the time) when a "power gamer" is talking about how the game can improve. Nothing about what new ideas could FC crafting be used for. Never even any talk of how to expand the intricacies of gathering/crafting and what would strengthen that. And heaven forbid anyone talk about RP encouraging elements (a topic so low on the priority list, people get ENRAGED if you dare suggest such a thing... until it becomes standard and expected *cough*transmog*cough*).

You expect a "power gamer" to have suggested expanding on the Eternal Bond ceremony to have anniversaries? HELL NO, but someone did ask about it and the team actually has some ideas in the works for Eternal Bond anniversaries and special additions on Valentine's event.


I've held back posting today because every time I've started it's come across nastier than I want it to, but gosh h*cking darn it, there's nothing but negative "FFXIV is total shit" coming off real h*cking strong today across two active threads so I've been too foul mooded to take the time to chime in.


And no, Wreck, I'm not laying this all on you. I just know you won't take it personal if this post also seems a little spicey, so I chose your post to actually respond to before I head home for the day.

Also I had to skip lunch and really want some WingStop so that might be adding to my foul mood.



......gosh h*cking darn it.

[Katchii]

When you say 'actively discourage' what exactly are you referring to? I don't recall seeing any systems to discourage that type of behavior. Everything else makes sense and I agree with for the most part.

"Actively discourage" may be a tad overstating, but there's a warning on the window that says "Unjustified usage of vote dismiss is a punishable act." Yoshi-P has also stated on at least one occasion, if not several, that they take complaints about that type of behavior very seriously due to how important the community is to them. So it's something SE does care about. I've never seen any systems that actually work to prevent people from abusing it, but I imagine the sheer threat of it being punishable helps deter some of the douchebagger. I'm under no delusions that it has that much of an effect, but it's still better than nothing.

[blackblade]

Yeah, I understand why it is the way it is. I'm a big supporter of the roulette system because it's a big part of the reason the old group content stays alive. But sometimes it's frustrating. Since your only options after your first 60 (maybe 2nd if you saved all of the side quests) to level are leveling roulette and potd, the grind gets a bit stale. And getting Sastasha, halatali, and tam tara all the time makes it even worse. I'm not a huge fan of the classes. You don't really get much except your base rotation and a couple cool downs before 30. So my idea is just trying to figure out how to give people more options, but I also wouldnt want to take away from the new players that need us helping them.

For levelling: You should only hit up levelling roulette for the bonus, then just queue your highest available dungeon. Beast Tribe quests are pretty solid, as are hunts. Not really grindable like roulettes or potd. You also have level 50 roulette (which awards xp for kills now) the MSQ roulette, and Trial roulette, both of which also drop poetics which you can use to kickstart other level 50 alts.

I'm hoping cross-role skills will make things a lot easier for lower level dungeon tank and healers. SCH not getting their esuna equivalent until 40 (barring a long CD on selene) and PLD not getting shield oath until 40 is kind of fucked up given how crucial those skills are (and how other classes get their equivalents much sooner). Some of the pruning will hopefully make things a bit nicer going down too, getting rid of redundant skills (Lightning 1/2/3 becoming one spell with traits that increase potency+duration with player level, for example) should make some of the pain of going back to low level dungeons a bit less hurty.

[Resiak]

Ok I'll bite. I might have gotten way off topic previously. I don't mind low level dungeons being a good tutorial for new to MMO players. I'm actually 100% ok with this. In fact, I encourage it and thought that the level 1-50 "tutorial" actually did a better than half decent job at teaching me the ropes of the world.

The issue I have with the system is the scale down piece for max level players. I don't like being sync'd down to overpowered levels because what little engagement these dungeons provide is even further muddied at this point. While I absolutely abhor losing abilities, I think if FF14 followed the WoW timewalking approach (scaled down abilities) it'd be just as much of a snore as TW is. I mean, I stated earlier that I LITERALLY fell asleep in TW once. That's how boring that stuff was with how little danger/engagment was present that it literally put a player to sleep.

I don't have a good solution. I really don't. I think really you just need to give outstanding rewards to keep people doing it, which after some discussions/analysis I agree the tomes really are the best fit for that.



I don't think breaking up roulettes like that is a good idea. FF14 already throws way too much mundane content at our way. I desperately think it needs more robust content, not more quantity of content.

Ok, this we can work with. I agree, there really isnt a great answer. The entire point of the leveling roulette is to encourage people to come down and help newer players, or people leveling new jobs, get dungeons down. It's a way to keep queue times down. In all reality, the reward is about all we can expect, it's not for max level players, it's to help the low level players.

And your correct. Breaking up the roulette is an ineloguent fix to a complicated issue. Its sort of a brainstorming idea.

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For levelling: You should only hit up levelling roulette for the bonus, then just queue your highest available dungeon. Beast Tribe quests are pretty solid, as are hunts. Not really grindable like roulettes or potd. You also have level 50 roulette (which awards xp for kills now) the MSQ roulette, and Trial roulette, both of which also drop poetics which you can use to kickstart other level 50 alts.

I'm hoping cross-role skills will make things a lot easier for lower level dungeon tank and healers. SCH not getting their esuna equivalent until 40 (barring a long CD on selene) and PLD not getting shield oath until 40 is kind of fucked up given how crucial those skills are (and how other classes get their equivalents much sooner). Some of the pruning will hopefully make things a bit nicer going down too, getting rid of redundant skills (Lightning 1/2/3 becoming one spell with traits that increase potency+duration with player level, for example) should make some of the pain of going back to low level dungeons a bit less hurty.

Yeah, i do leveling once a day. Do my hunts now that I am over 50 with my current job im leveling, and the vath and vanu quests. It can still feel a bit grindy once you level multiple classes. But I guess thats true in any mmo.

[dope_danny]

Starts off a bit slow but man theres some exciting stuff in it as it goes on.

Also Alisae changed that sword to a rapier, RDM confirmed

[Anzaman]

Wonder how long it takes before some people start to demand SE to add Lyse's outfit for players.

[dope_danny]

The slutglamour crowd started the moment they saw the boob tube