Eurovision Song Contest 2017 - Grand Final

[hellhamster]

You forgot their kin in Aegean Macedonia which was but most of them were ethnic cleansed or assimilated by greeks who needed land after getting kicked out of Turkey so they settled in macedonia/europe where they have lived for barely a century n now they haf the nerve to tell people who have lived there for at least ca 1400 years if not a lot longer that Macedonia isn't theirs.

Go back to asia, turkey with you, where u belong.

History is supposed to be objective, not a concoction of propaganda aimed at giving a country (FYROM) a national identity. It's saddening to see your kin getting brainwashed by a guy who was grasping at straws after the Yugoslavia split. Here's some actual history:

2000 - 146 BC: Peninsula of Greece is populated by a bunch of different states (city-states), each speaking Greek (the language first derived from Egyptian in the form of Linear A and B and later from Phoenician after the Mycenaean dark age of ~800 BC), each believing in the same Olympic gods, sharing the same culture and customs, each however competed and often warred with each other. Being allowed to participate in the Olympic games, a form of ceasefire during continuous warring, was a form of confirmation of Greek identity. Notable examples: Mycenaean, Minoan civilizations, Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Corinth, Macedonia.

146 BC - 324 AD: The Greek city states are at an all time low after centuries of constant war. The Roman Empire is at an all time high, conquering Greece relatively quickly. Greek city states become vassals of Rome, like pretty much the entirety of Europe, north Africa and middle east.

324 AD: Constantine, a Roman emperor, shifts power to the east, creating a new center of his empire in Constantinope, thus creating a "second Rome". The empire is inherently Roman with Latin being the lingua franca, but the relationship with the west is starting to deteriorate, creating a new empire separated from the west.

620 AD: Emperor Heraclius changes the official language to Greek, being the predominant language in the empire. The empire achieves multicultural status, with Greeks, Latins, Jews, Kurds, Armenians being the dominant ethnicities, each living in segregation. The religion switches from Greek polytheism to Christianity In the meantime, Slavics descend to the south and amass behind the northern border in the Balkan. A few of them settle in Macedonia and live together with the Greek-speaking settlers who have been there since the Bronze Age.

700 - 1200 AD: Arabs/Muslim attack the eastern lands while Slavics (under Bulgarian rulers) attack the northern. The Arabs are mostly repelled but the Bulgarians are starting to gain territory. Eventually they are driven back to their lands north of the border. Orthodoxy as well as literacy spreads to the north to the Slavic tribes and reaches modern Russia. Relationship with the west is becoming hostile, after the Schism of the 2 churches (Orthodox and Catholic) and massacre of the latins in Constantinople. The fourth Crusaders, which were supposed to reconquer the middle east, stop by Constantinople and sack it as a means of collecting debt. The empire is at an all time low and will never recover.

1200 - 1453 AD: The Ottomans start to raid the west, slowly but surely advancing to the heart of the empire. Constantinople is sieged from all sides and falls. A lot of people fled and settled to the west, most in Italy and the area around Thessaloniki.

1453 - 1900 AD: The Ottomans invade Europe from Constantinople and reach Vienna, where they are eventually repelled back. Slowly, the Balkan region gains independence from the Ottoman regime, which is losing power and territory each year. There is a population exchange between newly founded nations of the Balkan and neo-Ottoman Turkey.

1900-1920 AD: Balkan wars about the disputed territory of northern Greece which was reclaimed from the Ottomans, with Greece being the victors.

I hope you gained some knowledge, now peace be with you.

[ovm33]

I think the main reason is something like... they liked it and joined the Broadcasting Union that's organizing the event and thus meet the requirements to participate. Or something like that.

You are right, most of the songs are pretty trashy pop, though there always have been some exceptions. I vividly remember watching the ESC with my parents back in 2006 and how shocked they were when Lordi won, haha.

Australia is a guest contestant.

Why Israel? Well:

Eligible participants include primarily Active Members (as opposed to Associate Members) of the EBU. Active members are those who are located in states that fall within the European Broadcasting Area, or are member states of the Council of Europe.^[26]
The European Broadcasting Area is defined by the International Telecommunication Union:^[27]

The "European Broadcasting Area" is bounded on the west by the western boundary of Region 1, on the east by the meridian 40° East of Greenwich and on the south by the parallel 30° North so as to include the northern part of Saudi Arabia and that part of those countries bordering the Mediterranean within these limits. In addition, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Ukraine and those parts of the territories of Iraq, Jordan and Syrian Arab Republic lying outside the above limits are included in the European Broadcasting Area.^[a]

Interesting.

Thank you for the answers.

[caervek]

The contest was hosted in Ukraine because Jamala's song was objectively the best in 2016 if you have any kind of a decent taste in music

Oh it was a good song, but it was also against the rules of Eurovision and giving her an exemption purely because Russia were in the dog house was comical and against the spirit of the competition.

And Ukraine didn't ban russia

They refused to let their entrant compete in the competition (nor enter the country) because they had recently been to part of Russia that Ukraine claims. That's called banning.



Like I said though thankfully Portugal's victory means an end to the controversy of the the last two years politically dominated contests, 2018 should be a great return to form

[Lolgo]

Oh it was a good song, but it was also against the rules of Eurovision and giving her an exemption purely because Russia were in the dog house was comical and against the spirit of the competition.

The song wasn't against the rules of Eurovision. That's what russians wailed. There's nothing wrong about historical songs. You can't ban a song telling you a ~70 y.o. story cause it's so easy to draw parallels with the current russia.

They refused to let their entrant compete in the competition (nor enter the country) because they had recently been to part of Russia that Ukraine claims. That's called banning.

No, that's not what happened. She was banned from entering the country, as were lots of other russian "artists" that broke the law. She was never banned from competing per se and was even offered to perform on an off-site venue.

[Deleted]

Hellhamster, thx for admitting that SLAVS SETTLED IN MACEDONIA N MIXED WITH BYZANTINES, now plz explain how land doesn't belong to them even though Slavic side been around at leadt 1400 years n from 'Byzantine' balkan local side for several millenia? How does land instead belong to "Greeks" who a century ago resided in turkey in fucking ASIA? You lost war against Turkey n were driven out of Smyrna etc n went to Europe n stole land n homes from those who have basically always been there n now u claim u were always there? What a joke...

Just because someone took ur homes don't mean u can go do the same to others who didn’t even have anything to do with it n now u want to forbid them to use the name macedonia even though thier ancestors are buried there while yours is in anatolia...in Asia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Smyrna

You want some exclusive right to name macedonia n considering ur past crimes, you can simply forget it. Btw how is this any different than Turks trying to deny crimes against Armenians? U don't simply complain about a name but want people to forget ur crimes. Sorry history won't be rewritten to suit ur ego, it's laughable for u to think this could ever happen.

Maybe name Europe is of greek origin n next u will demand everyone who isn't greek to stop calling themselves European? Do you people have a clue how ridiculous u sound with ur whining about macedonia? Don't u greeks have better things to do like paying ur debts back to eu?

[hellhamster]

Hellhamster, thx for admitting that SLAVS SETTLED IN MACEDONIA N MIXED WITH BYZANTINES, now plz explain how land doesn't belong to them even though Slavic side been around at leadt 1400 years n from 'Byzantine' balkan local side for several millenia? How does land instead belong to "Greeks" who a century ago resided in turkey in fucking ASIA? You lost war against Turkey n were driven out of Smyrna etc n went to Europe n stole land n homes from those who have basically always been there n now u claim u were always there? What a joke...

Just because someone took ur homes don't mean u can go do the same to others who didn’t even have anything to do with it n now u want to forbid them to use the name macedonia even though thier ancestors are buried there while yours is in anatolia...in Asia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Smyrna

You want some exclusive right to name macedonia n considering ur past crimes, you can simply forget it. Btw how is this any different than Turks trying to deny crimes against Armenians? U don't simply complain about a name but want people to forget ur crimes. Sorry history won't be rewritten to suit ur ego, it's laughable for u to think this could ever happen.

Maybe name Europe is of greek origin n next u will demand everyone who isn't greek to stop calling themselves European? Do you people have a clue how ridiculous u sound with ur whining about macedonia? Don't u greeks have better things to do like paying ur debts back to eu?

Errrrrrrhm, what are you talking about, Greeks lived in Greece for thousands of years. We didn't just "live in Turkey and came back to reclaim our lands". Greeks had colonies everywhere in Anatolia, but the origin is Greece. You are saying the equivalent of Britain being Polish or whatever because some British immigrated to America. I'm scratching my head in utter amazement right now. I'm just bewildered, are all people from your country like that?

You are giving me gems like "I don't have anything better to do like paying debts back" when YOU are the one beginning with talking shit about Greeks with preposterous misinformation and complete historical revision.

[Shalcker]

The song wasn't against the rules of Eurovision. That's what russians wailed. There's nothing wrong about historical songs. You can't ban a song telling you a ~70 y.o. story cause it's so easy to draw parallels with the current russia.

So, you would see nothing wrong with "Sacred War" being played there, right? It's just historic song, after all...

No, that's not what happened. She was banned from entering the country, as were lots of other russian "artists" that broke the law.

..and were still allowed inside Ukraine.

[Cosmic Janitor]

it seems like this gets less and less important every year.. even the media barely gives a damn anymore, because the only place I find out about it is usually among crowds that would also read "The Sun" .

[Ermelloth]

Once fairly objective and exciting, during the last 15 years or so Eurovision became an absolutely disgusting contest, politicized to the bone.

Also, if you have a contender with any kind of disability, sickness or sexual identity problems, you get +500% chance to win or get a place in the top, regardless of actual quality of the stuff they sing.

In other words, Eurovision today - a SJW tool to promote LGBT and certain political agendas.

[DarkAmbient]

That would be Zlata Ognevich. Tell your friend that she doesn't have a lot of "researchable" photo-material though

My friend is very grateful

[Deleted]

Errrrrrrhm, what are you talking about, Greeks lived in Greece for thousands of years. We didn't just "live in Turkey and came back to reclaim our lands". Greeks had colonies everywhere in Anatolia, but the origin is Greece. You are saying the equivalent of Britain being Polish or whatever because some British immigrated to America. I'm scratching my head in utter amazement right now. I'm just bewildered, are all people from your country like that?

You are giving me gems like "I don't have anything better to do like paying debts back" when YOU are the one beginning with talking shit about Greeks with preposterous misinformation and complete historical revision.

"Greek colonies" what a joke, then why were they talking turkish many of them? You are talking about regions that were under the roman empire (italians) and who christened the empire, ur country is a collection of the remainder of the empire due to ur church thats why former arabs turks armenians kurds today call themselves "greeks" and that's they all flocked to greece after loosing to muslim turkey, you resettled them in aegean macedonia in former slavic towns villages homes, up until that point greeks had mainly lived in coastal areas while mainland was mostly slavs.

That region was lost due to the Balkan wars just recently before greece went to war solo against turkey n lost badly so u resettled a bunch of christians with very questionable origins but u had ur megali idea that u were going conquer all ancient lands n all slavic churches should be ruled by greece in order to be assimilated which in of itself questions what is an ethnic greek had u succeeded n also what are you now? You have "greeks" with grandparents who spoke only slavic turkish albanian etc
Didn't Athens speak mostly albanian n why are ur national guard there dressed in albanian garb?

You have created this national myth brainwashing that anyone who fell to the orthodox church was a greek or a greek who didn’t know he was greek yet...I wonder how many of you are actual greeks considering millenias of wars depopulations ethnic cleansings..Regardless, both macedonia n greece are brainwashed both with myths n excuses..like two drunks arguing that they are sober..

- - - Updated - - -

So, you would see nothing wrong with "Sacred War" being played there, right? It's just historic song, after all...

..and were still allowed inside Ukraine.

Ukrainians attack n beat up grannies who wear st george ribbons, they would have assaulted ur singer as well regardless that she's in a wheel-chair..

[Mackwiss]

"Greek colonies" what a joke, then why were they talking turkish many of them? You are talking about regions that were under the roman empire (italians) and who christened the empire, ur country is a collection of the remainder of the empire due to ur church thats why former arabs turks armenians kurds today call themselves "greeks" and that's they all flocked to greece after loosing to muslim turkey, you resettled them in aegean macedonia in former slavic towns villages homes, up until that point greeks had mainly lived in coastal areas while mainland was mostly slavs.

That region was lost due to the Balkan wars just recently before greece went to war solo against turkey n lost badly so u resettled a bunch of christians with very questionable origins but u had ur megali idea that u were going conquer all ancient lands n all slavic churches should be ruled by greece in order to be assimilated which in of itself questions what is an ethnic greek had u succeeded n also what are you now? You have "greeks" with grandparents who spoke only slavic turkish albanian etc
Didn't Athens speak mostly albanian n why are ur national guard there dressed in albanian garb?

You have created this national myth brainwashing that anyone who fell to the orthodox church was a greek or a greek who didn’t know he was greek yet...I wonder how many of you are actual greeks considering millenias of wars depopulations ethnic cleansings..Regardless, both macedonia n greece are brainwashed both with myths n excuses..like two drunks arguing that they are sober..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece

someone is very deeply drunk in alternaitve facts I see.

[M5290]

There are like 5 Scandinavian countries. The Slavic circle jerk is what...15+?

EDIT: Hang on, I'll count.
Russia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Czech rep, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Hungary, Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria, Poland, Armenia, Azerbaidzhan, Georgia.

Romania is not a Slavic country. Never was.

[hellhamster]

"Greek colonies" what a joke, then why were they talking turkish many of them? You are talking about regions that were under the roman empire (italians) and who christened the empire, ur country is a collection of the remainder of the empire due to ur church thats why former arabs turks armenians kurds today call themselves "greeks" and that's they all flocked to greece after loosing to muslim turkey, you resettled them in aegean macedonia in former slavic towns villages homes, up until that point greeks had mainly lived in coastal areas while mainland was mostly slavs.

That region was lost due to the Balkan wars just recently before greece went to war solo against turkey n lost badly so u resettled a bunch of christians with very questionable origins but u had ur megali idea that u were going conquer all ancient lands n all slavic churches should be ruled by greece in order to be assimilated which in of itself questions what is an ethnic greek had u succeeded n also what are you now? You have "greeks" with grandparents who spoke only slavic turkish albanian etc
Didn't Athens speak mostly albanian n why are ur national guard there dressed in albanian garb?

You have created this national myth brainwashing that anyone who fell to the orthodox church was a greek or a greek who didn’t know he was greek yet...I wonder how many of you are actual greeks considering millenias of wars depopulations ethnic cleansings..Regardless, both macedonia n greece are brainwashed both with myths n excuses..like two drunks arguing that they are sober

Ah yes spasiba blyat rush B, thank you for explaining to me how we are all Slavs or Armenians or whatever. I guess Greeks must have been abducted by aliens or something Lol.

Also, thank you for proving to the world what kind of brainwashed and completely assholic people we've been dealing with for the past hundred years.

Ignored.

[Xargoth6634]

As an American, I'm curious as to why Australia is participating in a European song contest. Is it open to all commonwealth nations as well?

EDIT: Also I didn't read the whole thread and I've never watched much of the music from the contest but agreed that it'd be cool if contestants sang songs in their own languages. Just watched "Gravity" by Zlata Ognevich and the English lyrics were super cringey. (TBH I couldn't understand her for parts of the song so I wasn't sure whether some of it WAS in Ukrainian or whether her accent was just too heavy while pronouncing English words.) She had a good voice though, seems like a waste to make her sing in English. (Not sure whether contest rules require English or whether people just wouldn't do as well in the votes if they didn't sing in English since I didn't read the whole thread)

[hellhamster]

As an American, I'm curious as to why Australia is participating in a European song contest. Is it open to all commonwealth nations as well?

Probably got confused with Austria by a drunk Swede.

[Deleted]

As an American, I'm curious as to why Australia is participating in a European song contest. Is it open to all commonwealth nations as well?

The Eurovision song contest was always fairly popular in Australia, so they decided to let them compete in an anniversary edition - and then just went with it. Israel is competing as well.

[ranzino]

The Eurovision song contest was always fairly popular in Australia, so they decided to let them compete in an anniversary edition - and then just went with it. Israel is competing as well.

their announcer said they will stop attending, at least until a new broadcaster can fill the gap.

[Deleted]

Ah yes spasiba blyat rush B, thank you for explaining to me how we are all Slavs or Armenians or whatever. I guess Greeks must have been abducted by aliens or something Lol.

Also, thank you for proving to the world what kind of brainwashed and completely assholic people we've been dealing with for the past hundred years.

Ignored.

So...ur pure greeks from Aristoteles to today? Thx for proving my point about living on myths, ironic since u admitted Slavs settled in Macedonia

[Lolgo]

So, you would see nothing wrong with "Sacred War" being played there, right? It's just historic song, after all...

..and were still allowed inside Ukraine.

"Sacred War" is an ~80 year old song. "1941" was a new song at that time.
No, they were not. Artists who obeyed Ukrainian law on Ukrainian soil, as they should, weren't banned at all.