Sanders v Kasich debate

[Karfal]

What is the point of the debate?

Watching two anti American losers is entertaining to some people.

[PACOX]

Its was decent except for Kaisch refusing to call Donnie a liar. Not actually a debate but a discussion about the current news stories. The debate there were supposed to have is being rescheduled I believe.

[Mihalik]

I wonder if it will be a slaughter like when sanders and cruz debated. Sanders got slammed wirh a cruz missle and showed the distain he has for small business.

I have no idea what debate you watched, but the one I have seen Cruz was trying to throw out the typical hallow talking points combined with a healthy dose of logical fallacies.

Cruz is a lawyer, and a fairly decent one too, so he is pretty good at making completely pointless things sound like they are meaningful for those who don't actually understand the lack of depth in his arguments.

And I'm saying this as an actual business owner. Cruz is cringe worthy and has nothing resembling a stance on any issue.

I really wonder, what alternate reality you have chosen to live in, if you walked away from that debate thinking Cruz said or done anything meaningful.

[Theinquisition]

I have no idea what debate you watched, but the one I have seen Cruz was trying to throw out the typical hallow talking points combined with a healthy dose of logical fallacies.

Cruz is a lawyer, and a fairly decent one too, so he is pretty good at making completely pointless things sound like they are meaningful for those who don't actually understand the lack of depth in his arguments.

And I'm saying this as an actual business owner. Cruz is cringe worthy and has nothing resembling a stance on any issue.

I really wonder, what alternate reality you have chosen to live in, if you walked away from that debate thinking Cruz said or done anything meaningful.

Typical hallow talking points?....Look, im not even a Cruz fan, but thats funny considering who he was debating.

Bernie...whats the bigest problem facing the nation today "the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Bernie...what do you think about healthcare...."the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Bernie, how do you think the AZ cardinals did in this years NFL draft....."the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

[DarkTZeratul]

These two guys should've been our general election candidates and instead we got Hillary and Trump

Watching them talk (in what was definitely more of a discussion than a debate), I thought this very same thing.

[Crissi]

Typical hallow talking points?....Look, im not even a Cruz fan, but thats funny considering who he was debating.

Bernie...whats the bigest problem facing the nation today "the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Bernie...what do you think about healthcare...."the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Bernie, how do you think the AZ cardinals did in this years NFL draft....."the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

and yet he managed to trip Cruz up when it came to being an actual empathetic human. SO...

I'll take the socialist over the sociopath anyday.

Although I'll take an empathetic Repub over Bernie.

[mvaliz]

Right now the Sanders v Kasich are debating. It got delayed and will only last an hour so there probably isn't going to be much debate.
[video=youtube;g4Q5GA6Dnhc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Q5GA6Dnhc[video]

Eow, I'll have to watch this later! My pick for pres vs my favorite Republican candidate for pres that doesn't stoop to fear tactics and hatred! ^_^

[kail]

Typical hallow talking points?....Look, im not even a Cruz fan, but thats funny considering who he was debating.

Bernie...whats the bigest problem facing the nation today "the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Bernie...what do you think about healthcare...."the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Bernie, how do you think the AZ cardinals did in this years NFL draft....."the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

You talking about his campaign now or the debate?

Sanders did fumble the question to the small business woman.


Funny enough his answer actually didn't match his main platform, single-payer health care system. Under that system, businesses large and small wouldn't have to worry about providing health insurance for their employees. Yet his answer is "You should provide your employees health insurance".

Beyond that he did stick with the platform. The hosts had to ask Cruz several times to answer a question when he constantly dances around them, specifically with pre-existing conditions and continual healthcare.

[Karfal]

You talking about his campaign now or the debate?

Sanders did fumble the question to the small business woman.


Funny enough his answer actually didn't match his main platform, single-payer health care system. Under that system, businesses large and small wouldn't have to worry about providing health insurance for their employees. Yet his answer is "You should provide your employees health insurance".

Beyond that he did stick with the platform. The hosts had to ask Cruz several times to answer a question when he constantly dances around them, specifically with pre-existing conditions and continual healthcare.

Jesus were so lucky this communist nut didn't stand a chance.

[kail]

Jesus were so lucky this communist nut didn't stand a chance.

What communist?

[Theinquisition]

and yet he managed to trip Cruz up when it came to being an actual empathetic human. SO...

I'll take the socialist over the sociopath anyday.

Although I'll take an empathetic Repub over Bernie.

Comon crissi.

Bernie basically told a small business owner that he'd rather see her lose her business and employees become unemployed than her not be able to afford to psy for her employees health coverage.

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You may not be a Cruz or Kasich fan, but you certainly are biased.

Against a deadbeat socialist....yes.

Btw i actually rooted for kasich this election

[Theinquisition]

If you have over 50 employees, and you can't find a way to get a co-pay going then yes you don't deserve to have a business!

I was rooting for Kasich too, well at least on the GOP side.

Im sure thats reassuring to the 50 people who would be unemployed.

Lets not pretend FDR was a nobel prize winning economist.

[Uoyredrum]

What communist?

There's a lot of conservatives who think everyone not on the extreme right are communists. Mostly because they have no idea what communism is.

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Im sure thats reassuring to the 50 people who would be unemployed.

Lets not pretend FDR was a nobel prize winning economist.

If you have 50 people working somewhere that's not offering them insurance, the employer is probably skirting laws to avoid giving them insurance (consistently making sure everyone is barely beneath full time status, etc.) and those 50 people could do a lot better elsewhere with a real employer. Company provided insurance is a drain on both parties which is one of the many reasons why single-payer is a lot better than our current and past systems. But yeah, under the current system, I agree that if you can't afford to give your employees insurance, your business isn't really a worthwhile place of employment.

[Theinquisition]

There's a lot of conservatives who think everyone not on the extreme right are communists. Mostly because they have no idea what communism is.

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If you have 50 people working somewhere that's not offering them insurance, the employer is probably skirting laws to avoid giving them insurance (consistently making sure everyone is barely beneath full time status, etc.) and those 50 people could do a lot better elsewhere with a real employer. Company provided insurance is a drain on both parties which is one of the many reasons why single-payer is a lot better than our current and past systems. But yeah, under the current system, I agree that if you can't afford to give your employees insurance, your business isn't really a worthwhile place of employment.

Many small businesses run with razor thin profit margins. Typically it can take 5+ years for a business to see a level of success.

Besides....shouldn't that be the choice of the employed? If they are happy working somewhere, they should make the choice of whether they stay there or move along.

[May90]

Sanders did fumble the question to the small business woman.

This really is Sanders in a nutshell: a lot of empty populist talk, and as soon as any actual practical question is asked, all he can say is, "I don't know anything about this, but I think it should work somehow". Crazy how so many people bought his promises; doesn't seem much different from how Trump managed to fool everyone.

I haven't watched the debate, but I expect Kasich to have utterly destroyed him in almost everything regarding actual policies. Am I right?

[NED funded]

I have no idea what debate you watched, but the one I have seen Cruz was trying to throw out the typical hallow talking points combined with a healthy dose of logical fallacies.

Cruz is a lawyer, and a fairly decent one too, so he is pretty good at making completely pointless things sound like they are meaningful for those who don't actually understand the lack of depth in his arguments.

And I'm saying this as an actual business owner. Cruz is cringe worthy and has nothing resembling a stance on any issue.

I really wonder, what alternate reality you have chosen to live in, if you walked away from that debate thinking Cruz said or done anything meaningful.

What? Bernie condemned a small business hour for being too poor,when pressured by Cruz he couldn't answer how he was planning to fund his healthcare plan and most of his points during the first half basically was: "It works, I'll make it work" a la trump. Regardless this is off topic. I hope there is an actual debate later on.

[Mihalik]

Typical hallow talking points?....Look, im not even a Cruz fan, but thats funny considering who he was debating.

Bernie...whats the bigest problem facing the nation today "the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Bernie...what do you think about healthcare...."the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Bernie, how do you think the AZ cardinals did in this years NFL draft....."the top ten percent of the peoples control 90 percents of the wealths"

Look Sanders is not wrong. The biggest problems the country is facing today is income inequality and how it ties into the political process. Grassroots movements and opinion polls have very little effect on how politicians vote or how the parties set their policies (most recent example the Healthcare reform debacle that is utterly unpopular and is simply a massive tax break to a tiny percent of the population, the damn thing can't even be called a healthcare bill, it's a tax break). Hey, the GOP even regularly cuts funding to the VA or restricts access and now it killed ACA tax credits to veterans. I mean show me the constituency in the US who goes -Yep! That is exactly what we should be doing! Great success!

Private enterprise is a good thing, but there is a point where things slip into crony capitalism. The root problem with healthcare in the US is that we made it a barely regulated oligopoly that leeches off the public and government funding while providing little actual care and engages in shady practices.

And this exact pattern of behavior keeps repeating itself, Wall Street, Student Debt, the mess that is defense spending (which rarely allocates sufficient funding to necessary equipment or training but throws billions at an ass backwards jet design that is colossally mismanaged). And this goes on and on.

Look, nothing what Sanders does or advocates for is really that outrageous. It can be resumed as such- The US government should focus on defending the interests of its citizens while creating a strong regulatory environment in which the interests of the few doesn't trump the interests of the many to the point where it would become detrimental to the well being and prosperity of the nation.

Sanders is an idealist and he looks at social models like that of European nations and that is what he wants to emulate. Of course not everything is applicable to the US, but one most stop and think for a bit, how is it that we spend more than any EU nation per capita on healthcare but get a worse one? How is it that despite being the richest nation on Earth we can't figure out how the fuck to provide healthcare for all our citizens? How is it that we can't seem to create a public education system which doesn't near guarantee that a sizeable chunk of our kids goes straight to jail from school? How is it that our young people get into debt for decades to receive an education that doesn't even guarantee a living wage?

There are plenty of things that the Europeans haven't figured out yet either, but they have some things, like Healthcare, Student debt and Infrastructure? Why not look at the things they did right and see how we can implement it?

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What? Bernie condemned a small business hour for being too poor,when pressured by Cruz he couldn't answer how he was planning to fund his healthcare plan and most of his points during the first half basically was: "It works, I'll make it work" a la trump. Regardless this is off topic. I hope there is an actual debate later on.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

A 6.2 percent income-based health care premium paid by employers.
Revenue raised: $630 billion per year.
A 2.2 percent income-based premium paid by households.
Revenue raised: $210 billion per year.This year, a family of four taking the standard deduction can have income up to $28,800 and not pay this tax under this plan.A family of four making $50,000 a year taking the standard deduction would only pay $466 this year.
Progressive income tax rates.
Revenue raised: $110 billion a year.Under this plan the marginal income tax rate would be:

37 percent on income between $250,000 and $500,000.
43 percent on income between $500,000 and $2 million.
48 percent on income between $2 million and $10 million. (In 2013, only 113,000 households, the top 0.08 percent of taxpayers, had income between $2 million and $10 million.)
52 percent on income above $10 million. (In 2013, only 13,000 households, just 0.01 percent of taxpayers, had income exceeding $10 million.)
Taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work.
Revenue raised: $92 billion per year.Warren Buffett, the second wealthiest American in the country, has said that he pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary. The reason is that he receives most of his income from capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at a much lower rate than income from work. This plan will end the special tax break for capital gains and dividends on household income above $250,000.
Limit tax deductions for rich.
Revenue raised: $15 billion per year. Under Bernie’s plan, households making over $250,000 would no longer be able to save more than 28 cents in taxes from every dollar in tax deductions. This limit would replace more complicated and less effective limits on tax breaks for the rich including the AMT, the personal exemption phase-out and the limit on itemized deductions.
The Responsible Estate Tax.
Revenue raised: $21 billion per year.This provision would tax the estates of the wealthiest 0.3 percent (three-tenths of 1 percent) of Americans who inherit over $3.5 million at progressive rates and close loopholes in the estate tax.
Savings from health tax expenditures.
Revenue raised: $310 billion per year. Several tax breaks that subsidize health care (health-related “tax expenditures”) would become obsolete and disappear under a single-payer health care system, saving $310 billion per year.Most importantly, health care provided by employers is compensation that is not subject to payroll taxes or income taxes under current law. This is a significant tax break that would effectively disappear under this plan because all Americans would receive health care through the new single-payer program instead of employer-based health care.

1, Cruz bullshitted about Canadians going to the US for care, ignoring that the numbers he quoted are mostly tied to elective procedures (like plastic surgery or dental work).

2, Cruz bullshitted about "rationing" and "waiting lists". This argument is based on two idiotic fallacies, a) that the US healthcare system isn't rationed- when it is, by the limitations tied to coverage and because Americans are much less likely to go their doctors for things like routine check-ups, things that are indeed usually rationed in single payer systems with things like scheduling. b) Emergency care and life saving care isn't rationed.

3, The mythical cross state insurance market thing that Cruz thinks seems to be the great solution to all, is utterly stupid. Not because market competition is stupid, but because the insurance system is set up as an oligopoly where insurance companies intentionally do not compete against each other exactly like ISPs in the US, where most Americans are lucky to have access to 2 ISPs where they live, and because setting up nation wide infrastructures is costly and pointless and doesn't guarantee growth when you can just corner the market in one area which guarantees you a certain fixed market share (people living there). Nor does this deal with the fundamental problem of participation rates and guaranteeing actual decent care.

Look I don't say Sanders won all the exchanges or that he is right on everything, but Cruz literally just churned out bullshit per minute. A lot of things he says "sound" reasonable or even "good", until you realize it is just bullshit.

[Saucerian]

The two people who *should* have been our choices last November. I'll have to bookmark this.

[Uoyredrum]

Many small businesses run with razor thin profit margins. Typically it can take 5+ years for a business to see a level of success.

Besides....shouldn't that be the choice of the employed? If they are happy working somewhere, they should make the choice of whether they stay there or move along.

I don't think you understand what I said.

From the employees point of view, if you as an employer are running a company with razor thin profit margins to the point where your pay is low and you don't offer insurance because you keep people part time, it is not a good place to work, especially in the long-term. The employer should expect a high turnover rate then, because that job is not worthwhile. Like I said, single-payer would solve this problem and help both the employer and employee, but in the current system if a business does not offer insurance, they are a shitty employer offering shitty jobs and hours and probably have a high turnover rate because of it. It sucks, but that's just how it is, and people have to look at the current politicians they voted into office and realize that they helped keep it that way.

[satimy]

Bernie sanders is the only person whose supporters are measurably worse than Trump people