Why do YOU think Healthcare is a Right and not a Privilege?

[Daymanmb]

Because despite the mantra used as a counter argument to BLM, all lives do matter. Too bad you guys dont act on what you preach..

[Deleted]

Move to Africa then. It's really that simple. Otherwise "your" taxes are always going to go towards a few things you might not like. That is being part of society.

Give me all your money because I said so as "taxes" other wise you're not part of society under your own logic.

It also doesn't take into account how monopolies society has made them more dependent on them like the restrictions on medical information and products.

[Ravenblade]

The single greatest argument against universal healthcare

It is actually a non-argument. It seems however that the single most fear driving people to be against it is because of obesity prevalence. Or in other words: That they have to pay for "fat fkcs". Given that a functional universal healthcare is more than just paying for fat people but actually entails a more widespread promotion of preemptive healthcare measures as well so there should in the end be less of these people since it does include a lot access to facilities promoting healthcare outside simply going to your general practitioner. Otherwise how do people explain working systems in Europe?

[Eazy]

For profit healthcare is morally wrong. Objectively. As in, if you don't believe that, you are objectively wrong. It is profiting off of suffering. If you don't see how that's wrong then I pity you.

If you think that 6 years of studying + another 6 years of studying spec shouldn't be profitable then you're wrong. Only fools don't know how does the world work.

[Halyon]

Doctors in general don't become doctors to earn money. That attitude is fostered in the US though, so doesn't surprise me if it's more common over there.

Access to affordable healthcare is a right in civilized countries where people pay taxes and are not only out to serve themselves first to the detriment of society as a whole.

Movie Doctor Strange. Enough said...man that guy's a jerk.

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If you think that 6 years of studying + another 6 years of studying spec shouldn't be profitable then you're wrong. Only fools don't know how does the world work.

It is profitable. But it's not the goal. Doctors Without Borders says hi, as one example. Generally, people become doctors because they want to heal people, not because they want to profit off theoir misery. Generally. Might be different in the US were nobody cares about the common person, other than how hard they can squeeze a malnourished lemon for whatever fumes it has left.

[Crispin]

Personally I think Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

If you misuse your body you should have to deal with the consequences unless you have purchased protection in the form of insurance.

Also, in ANY civilized country, no hospital is going to turn you away if you have something life threatening that HAS to be taken care of even if you don't have insurance.

Forcing doctors to see patients under universal health care greatly diminishes a doctors will to continue practicing. It also reduces the will of any people who would be willing to undergo 10+ years of education to become a doctor because the limited ability to make good money in the profession.

What the actual fuck, you think people are getting sick on purpose? Genetics is a thing, so is accidents.

[stomination]

I will never understand americans aversion to healthcare.

Most of our aversion is because many of us work and pay through our paycheck to get healthcare. While others do not work and want the same coverage.

[Deleted]

AH yes, pure hyperbole.

Ok, I want a corpse to open source anatomy. Presumably you can have one delivered or even donate your own.

Not that it should be necessary when taxes go to training the medical system and giving them free corpses in the first place. All this information should be elementary and available from a public source.

[Eazy]

It is profitable. But it's not the goal. Doctors Without Borders says hi, as one example. Generally, people become doctors because they want to heal people, not because they want to profit off theoir misery. Generally. Might be different in the US were nobody cares about the common person, other than how hard they can squeeze a malnourished lemon for whatever fumes it has left.

I kinda agree, but not for the whole point. Find a doctor who want to treat people for free.
Enough money for having a good life for doing such an important role in the society? Okay.
Working for "minimal wage" or something but saying "it's fine, because I just want to help people, I don't need money" - Nope.

If you sacrifice and study so much, you deserve more than other people who don't.

[Tyrianth]

Obesity and general health of the population, higher cost of drugs, lawsuits, higher rates of treatment by specialists vs regular doctors, cost of more highly advanced equipment and greater usage of said equipment, etc...



Actually, it is. That's part of the reason it's more expensive. The USA has some of the best doctors and probably the best medical technology in the world.



It's not as simple as just saying "socialized healthcare is better than privatized healthcare" or vise versa. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. The reason the USA has probably the most advanced medical technology is because it's privatized. By the same token, the reason it is so expensive is because it's privatized. The best we can do is come up with some balance between socialized and privatized.

And yet the US consistently ranks pretty low amongst its peers in terms of health outcomes and overall health care.

[Stormspark]

If you think that 6 years of studying + another 6 years of studying spec shouldn't be profitable then you're wrong. Only fools don't know how does the world work.

It is. Nobody is saying that doctors have to be paupers that live paycheck to paycheck. Doctors make plenty of money. It's not the doctors that are the cause of for-profit healthcare, it's the insurance companies. Who don't actually do anything, they are just rent seekers. Costs need to be heavily regulated, with a single payer system like Canada has. And guess what? Doctors will still be able to make a decent living. The insurance companies will be screwed, but I don't care about them.

[Elodeon]

Personally I think Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

The sensible debate is not about what healthcare is, because it is not fundamentally anything. It's whatever we decide it will be.

The sensible debate is about whether it should be declared a right, and treated that way, or shouldn't. (All rights are optional. All rights are enshrined as such by human beings. They are all concepts thought up by humans, none of them are fundamental.)

Evidence indicates that outcomes will be better if access to healthcare is declared a right, and the healthcare system is organized accordingly.

However, this does not matter to people who do not care about outcomes, but only about ideology.

[Derah]

Personally I think Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

If you misuse your body you should have to deal with the consequences unless you have purchased protection in the form of insurance.

Your entire argument fell apart the moment you used this ridiculous fallacy. Not all health related issues come from negligence of a person's body.

[petej0]

So I should be forced to pay for someone else's abortion through taxes because healthcare is a right?

Um no thanks. It's not about right and wrong, it's about this vast bureaucracy known as government controlling the populous and telling us whats good or moral.

Why not? You pay for smokers to get cancer treatments. You pay for obese over eaters to get by-pass surgeries. You pay for idiots thrill seekers broken bones.

[Slant]

People in the US are very reluctant to render aid to others because there have been way too many times where people have done so and then were sued by the person they helped because they didnt do good enough or in the process of saving their life by dragging them out of a burning car, they caused additional injuries. It has gotten so prevalent that some cities have passed "Good Samaritan laws" that protect people who attempt to help from lawsuits

Yep, that's the impression I get from US legal trials. Bullshit claims, bullshit liability charges and always someone owing someone else millions and millions of dollars for silly things that normal people would shake their head over. I wouldn't help a one legged blind man asking me to clap for him in the US. However, at least in my country, that doesn't happen. And you are obligated by law to render aid if you can reasonably do so. If all else fails, just call the emergency hotline. Since this discussion spawned with doctors treating patients even without pay, it is absolutely reasonable to expect a doctor to do first aid or save someone's life if they come to him.

[stabetha]

even if you consider health care a right, something being a right doesn't mean you can force someone else to pay for it, I have a right to own a gun are you willing to pay for it?

[petej0]

Citation please.

Even if your statement is true other developed countries around the world still have doctors and other medical professionals. Its almost like they're not in it for the money.

PS How's that cushy unionized government job going? Bet your union negotiated insurance must be pretty sweet.

Because of the hurdles doctors have to go through continually some just dont consider it worth the aggravation.

[Docturphil]

I'm sorry to say, but the US healthcare doesn't even reach the top 20 of cancer treatment for women.

Sorry to say, but what you're saying is not what is represented by the Wikipedia article you linked. There are two charts there for only two different types of female specific types of cancer. This does not translate to all cases of cancer for all women. And it certainly does not represent overall quality of healthcare. Please stop cherry picking.

If the US healthcare quality was so much better, there wouldn't be thousands of americans who fly over to a nearby hospital in my city to get better treatment for stuff like cancer etc.

Cost... the cost is higher. If a lot of people do that it's because of the cost. Higher costs. That has nothing to do with the quality. I already covered that.

When I had the chance to have a look, the inside of a private US hospital seemed less comfortable and luxurious than the inside of my local public hospital.

Which has nothing to do with anything. I'm talking about the quality of the treatment, not whether or not you have a hot tub in your hospital room. This is completely irrelevant.

I think all this stuff about "US have the best healthcare" is just propaganda akin to North-Korea claiming they're the best country.

I'm going to assume you're being hyperbolic. Assuming you can afford it, the USA does have some of the best medical treatment in the world. The cost is the issue not the quality of treatment.

And then having a system where you charge 10x to 300x more for the same treatment or drugs, without noticeably better quality, you have a big issue you should be looking at. The US healthcare system to me seems to be in an urgent need for a massive reform.

Yeah, higher costs. That's about the only thing you've said which has any basis in reality.

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And yet the US consistently ranks pretty low amongst its peers in terms of health outcomes and overall health care.

This has more to do with the health of the general population. Higher rates of obesity and poorer diets, etc... Lower rankings in overall healthcare are also related to the costs.

As for the actual quality of healthcare with costs and obesity rates aside, it's quite good.

[Orlong]

We have people going around the country currently giving out free Narcan to drug addicts, but we want to bankrupt folks who need radiation or chemo because they were unfortunate enough to get cancer. Pretty sound logic, don't you think?

Im totally against that as well. They chose to shoot up with heroin, let them rot. Eventually we wont have anymore addicts around. Such a waste of taxpayer money. I have yet to see a single story where someone was saved with Narcan then immediately got off the drugs, became a successful and productive member of society and never returned to drugs

[Naxere]

If you need someone else to do something for you, it is not a right.