[05/17/17] - How are Rets doing ?

[Helsinki]

Hello Silver Hands!

I'm sorry if a similar topic exists, wasn't able to find an answer.
I may be wrong for using this, http://www.simulationcraft.org/repor...d_T19M_NH.html
But Rets seems to be deep down.

So I'm wondering how rets are doing in raids, are we okay ? Or is it normal that I can't reach top DPs of my guild, despite I have a decent (far form perfect tho) rotation.

Also are our legendaries game changers ? I actually have Liadrin's Fury Unleashed and Justice Gaze.
I know they're not the BiS but should I be able to top dps in my guild with that ? (~900 ilvl and 4p)

I haven't play for months so I have those questions
Thanks in advance for your replies.

Lightly,

[Colmadero]

our Single Target damage is middle of the pack at best
Our AoE is monstrous, one of the best in the game.

Our BiS atm is cloak + Belt
Liadrin's is 3rd BiS but Justice Gaze is pretty bad, sorry =/

[Kuriyama]

I know they're not the BiS but should I be able to top dps in my guild with that ? (~900 ilvl and 4p)

Sorry, if you want to top DPS then stop playing your Paladin and roll a Fury Warrior or Ass Rogue.

[Reith]

Sorry, if you want to top DPS then stop playing your Paladin and roll a Fury Warrior or Ass Rogue.

Or just roll with a heroic raiding guild, then you could be #1 most of the time :X

[Morally Grey Storm]

Retribution is decent.
That is, if you forget that there is such thing as PvP.

[Jester Joe]

Better than usual I would say.

But yeah, Justice's Gaze is pretty awful unless you want to run around doing world PvP maybe. I also have it just wasting space in my bags.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Better than usual I would say.

And said "usual" would be...?

But yeah, Justice's Gaze is pretty awful unless you want to run around doing world PvP maybe. I also have it just wasting space in my bags.

It does jack to help Ret PvP.

[Jester Joe]

And said "usual" would be...?

Cataclysm?

Although I guess at the end it was pretty good.
Usual would be middle of the pack at everything.

It does jack to help Ret PvP.

I said World PvP, not Ret PvP, since legendary effects still work in the world, while they don't in instanced PvP (at least last I remember)

[Morally Grey Storm]

Cataclysm?

Although I guess at the end it was pretty good.
Usual would be middle of the pack at everything.

We were better off back then despite Cata being a fething wreck on it's own.

I said World PvP, not Ret PvP, since legendary effects still work in the world, while they don't in instanced PvP (at least last I remember)

It does jack to help Ret WPvP.

[Jester Joe]

We were better off back then despite Cata being a fething wreck on it's own.

Inquisition with the stupidly short buff? I'd rather not again, even if judgment is currently in a similar state, it's still less depressing than having to spend Holy Power to deal damage with Holy Power.

It does jack to help Ret WPvP.

Except have a ridiculously short CD on your stun, which can be helpful in situations like "Black Rook Rumble", when you have multiple enemies usually.

It doesn't make a ret some ridiculous monster, but it's fun to fool around with, and can be somewhat useful.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Inquisition with the stupidly short buff? I'd rather not again, even if judgment is currently in a similar state, it's still less depressing than having to spend Holy Power to deal damage with Holy Power.

Except back then we could actually choose how to gear, chant and gem.
We had more tools, our utility was wider and stronger.
We had actual offhealing capabilities.

Except have a ridiculously short CD on your stun, which can be helpful in situations like "Black Rook Rumble", when you have multiple enemies usually.

It doesn't make a ret some ridiculous monster, but it's fun to fool around with, and can be somewhat useful.

Which yet againb does jack to help Ret WPvP.
Gimmicks, special cases.
Doesn't matter in a grand scheme.

[Jester Joe]

Except back then we could actually choose how to gear, chant and gem.
We had more tools, our utility was wider and stronger.
We had actual offhealing capabilities.

Huh? I don't remember ever having "choices" for enchants or gems, or gear even. It was always "These are the best, go for them".
Yeah, reforging gave a BIT of leeway, but still.

Also yeah, we lost a bit of utility like Devo Aura, Sac, etc, but what we do have left is better now (BoP doesn't stop melee from attacking now).

Which yet againb does jack to help Ret WPvP.
Gimmicks, special cases.
Doesn't matter in a grand scheme.

Are you seriously trying to say a short CD on a stun does nothing at all?

Or are you missing that I never said a grand scheme once, and repeatedly said it was a niche thing?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Huh? I don't remember ever having "choices" for enchants or gems, or gear even. It was always "These are the best, go for them".
Yeah, reforging gave a BIT of leeway, but still.

But still, it was there.

Also yeah, we lost a bit of utility like Devo Aura, Sac, etc, but what we do have left is better now (BoP doesn't stop melee from attacking now).

So having nothing but FoL is better than SH FoL casts, WoG, HRadiance, Dl, HL?
having nothing but BoP is better than SoV and Sac?

Are you seriously trying to say a short CD on a stun does nothing at all?

Or are you missing that I never said a grand scheme once, and repeatedly said it was a niche thing?

I'm not "trying" to say , I've said it there and then.

Who cares about nivhe things?
HW has niche uses, does it make any good?

[Deleted]

Hey guys, I have a somewhat related question, its about the Ret playstyle. Right now im trying to decide on which melee DPS I want to play, and its between Pala and Warrior. However, with warrior I fear that it might be a bit too much of a "routine", in the sense that it pretty much always the same rotation with very few procs. I kind of enjoy having some whack-a-mole elements in my DPS. Do you think paladin would be the right choice for me?

[Jester Joe]

But still, it was there.

No, it really wasn't. Unless you're considering "here's a cheap enchant, and here's the REAL one you want" as "options", then I'd say that still exists, since you know, there's +150 stat enchants, and +200 stat enchants.

So having nothing but FoL is better than SH FoL casts, WoG, HRadiance, Dl, HL?
having nothing but BoP is better than SoV and Sac?

Still have WoG technically if you talent it.
Also I'll point out then, if you're so insistent on not caring about niche, then none of this matters either. As far as I remember, no one ever brought a ret paladin for their off heals.

I'm not "trying" to say , I've said it there and then.

Who cares about nivhe things?
HW has niche uses, does it make any good?

Then why are you arguing that it doesn't have niche use, since that's what I've been saying from the start?

[Morally Grey Storm]

No, it really wasn't. Unless you're considering "here's a cheap enchant, and here's the REAL one you want" as "options", then I'd say that still exists, since you know, there's +150 stat enchants, and +200 stat enchants.

chant-wise maybe, but then there's this thing about reforging, and actual options and choices regarding PvP back then.

Still have WoG technically if you talent it.
Also I'll point out then, if you're so insistent on not caring about niche, then none of this matters either. As far as I remember, no one ever brought a ret paladin for their off heals.

Technically we still have HoW .
Practically?

Matters or not is an entirely different topic.
But back then, our offhealing matterd, it had an impact, it was usable. Now? Not so much.
Back then our offhealing was actually a thread, a clutch and a lifesaver in PvP. Now? Not so much.

Then why are you arguing that it doesn't have niche use, since that's what I've been saying from the start?

I don't know why do YOU argue indeed.
First you claim Justice GAze is any useful and impacts Ret WPvP QoL, now you arguing Catclysm chants.

[Jester Joe]

chant-wise maybe, but then there's this thing about reforging, and actual options and choices regarding PvP back then.

Reforging didn't give options, it was always just "change your lowest stat into your highest"

Technically we still have HoW .
Practically?

Matters or not is an entirely different topic.
But back then, our offhealing matterd, it had an impact, it was usable. Now? Not so much.
Back then our offhealing was actually a thread, a clutch and a lifesaver in PvP. Now? Not so much.

And now, you can bubble your melee teammate and they're still able to attack the enemy, and you're able to bubble without doing 50% less damage. Yet again, I don't ever recall a time people we're using ret healing aside from niche examples.

I don't know why do YOU argue indeed.
First you claim Justice GAze is any useful and impacts Ret WPvP QoL, now you arguing Catclysm chants.

You must be reading a different thread at this point, because that isn't at all what happened.

I said, and I quote "But yeah, Justice's Gaze is pretty awful unless you want to run around doing world PvP maybe"

Maybe, as in, "Yeah, I guess it could be somewhat usable here". And then you came in saying it does nothing. Which I pointed out a niche use to it.

And now you're saying that I said it was useful, when I never even said that, I said it could be FUN possibly at most. You're arguing a strawman.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Reforging didn't give options, it was always just "change your lowest stat into your highest"

You had options what to wear and how to gear due to reforging.

And now, you can bubble your melee teammate and they're still able to attack the enemy, and you're able to bubble without doing 50% less damage. Yet again, I don't ever recall a time people we're using ret healing aside from niche examples.

Compared to HoSac, Hosac Mdispels, HoSalv, Fullhp SH insta-FoLs, etc etc?
And btw, BoP is not exclusive to Ret, so no, this is not something to parade as something special or wonderful, or great, or anything at all.

Yet again, why would anyone use Ret specifically for Heals?
Why would anyone use Ret specifically for BoP?
Did anyone ever?

yet Ret offhealing wass there, and it was real, and it was one of the main reasons to pick Ret for PvP.

You must be reading a different thread at this point, because that isn't at all what happened.

I said, and I quote "But yeah, Justice's Gaze is pretty awful unless you want to run around doing world PvP maybe"

Maybe, as in, "Yeah, I guess it could be somewhat usable here". And then you came in saying it does nothing. Which I pointed out a niche use to it.

No, I'm definitely reading this one.
Somewhat usable is of no concern.
HW is somewhat usable, so what?

And now you're saying that I said it was useful, when I never even said that, I said it could be FUN possibly at most. You're arguing a strawman.

Maybe, as in, "Yeah, I guess it could be somewhat usable here".

huh.

[Jester Joe]

You had options what to wear and how to gear due to reforging.

Yet again though, it was barely there.

There was still BiS. There was still terrible trinkets. It was no different than now, except it just was slightly dealable with.

Compared to HoSac, Hosac Mdispels, HoSalv, Fullhp SH insta-FoLs, etc etc?
And btw, BoP is not exclusive to Ret, so no, this is not something to parade as something special or wonderful, or great, or anything at all.


Yet again, why would anyone use Ret specifically for Heals?
Why would anyone use Ret specifically for BoP?
Did anyone ever?

yet Ret offhealing wass there, and it was real, and it was one of the main reasons to pick Ret for PvP.

We're not talking about just PvP here though.

No, I'm definitely reading this one.
Somewhat usable is of no concern.
HW is somewhat usable, so what?

huh.

Okay, congratz. You consider it of "no concern" that it's somewhat usable. That doesn't change that it is somewhat usable in a niche situation

[Morally Grey Storm]

Yet again though, it was barely there.

There was still BiS. There was still terrible trinkets. It was no different than now, except it just was slightly dealable with.

Still, the feel of being in control, of having means to customize your character has dwindled.

We're not talking about just PvP here though.

Sure as sure.
Which brings us back again to your claim that now we, to quote: "have less but better".

ALL offhealing potential removed, HoSac and Hosalv removed, mobility gutted into negative zone(granted, Ret was never king of mobility, but we held our own and were pretty mobile on our own), selfdefence gutted due to removal of DivProt and Sacred Shield, yet we have it somehow "better" now?
How and where?

And I'm not even touching PvP here, purely from Dragonslaying point.

Okay, congratz. You consider it of "no concern" that it's somewhat usable. That doesn't change that it is somewhat usable in a niche situation

And your point being...?