Top End guilds quitting

[Deleted]

There are plenty of people who feel that Nighthold loot is unrewarding 905-910 gear for amount of effort it takes to gather players and progress bosses.

People raid for rewards and those just don't feel rewarding enough compared to someone who does m+ 10 weekly and gets 905 every week. Which takes like 20 minutes and 0 effort. Or blast trough NM/HC Nighthold pug and get 925 TtitanForged loot while guilds spending month gathering right people and progressing Nighthold finally killing a boss and get 905-910 baseline for all that effort.

Honestly you would get better gear ilvl wise due to Titanforge if you just spam mythics+ and it would be so much more time efficient then mythic raiding. The only exception is Tier and trinkets.

People getting better rewards for doing easier content is unfair imo.

You can't get raid tier and trinkets in M+.

But wait, you might get them from the shard vendor from Broken Shore! THE HUMANITY!

If you find people getting better rewards for doing easier content unfair...there's nothing stopping you from raiding mythic. Is there? Or could it be that people raid mythic for reasons besides gear?

There are people genuinely bothered that Joe Schmoe might get a 915 ilevel whatever from M+? Do these people also get mad when Johnny Trailerpark wins the lottery?

Pathetic, and laughable.

[unbound]

lol

Top end raiding guilds are always quitting.

For example, early in 2008, Risen and Death and Taxes both called it quits / went casual. It has always been this way.

I do agree with the OP's criticisms, but the fact that top end guilds are quitting / going casual means absolutely nothing.

[prwraith]

But legion is fine the wow fanboys say, best expansion ever, why would they possibly leave..

[stomination]

yes lets hope this will wake blizzard up so they remove usless mode that mythic raids are and focus on real content that 95 % of playerbase wants.

People were doing world first shit before mythic became a thing.

All mythic did was allow blizz to make heroic normal easier than they were in past expansions.

[Deleted]

I love these QQ threads trying to disguise themselves as something else. OP's just salty cause he's done LFR a hundred times and never once got lucky with loot, still stuck at 860 item level.

[barackohmama]

Last one.

Those people represent 0.1% of playerbase.

High visibility, but 0 representativity. They must be a bit concerned of course but will never change evereything for them. Never had, never will.

They might represent a small percentage of players. But i'd say they are an important part in keeping raid content relevant. Those are the guys who test raids on PTR and many of them are in the forefront of class tuning and feedback.

- - - Updated - - -

I cannot understand why the heck u care so much about that ? If u are not racing for world firsts why would we care ? If I stop raiding will you care ? And no it is not the AP or M+ grind , they just burned out , spending DAYS in wipes every single day , having 6 different characters and stuff will burn you out pretty fast .

That's like saying if you are not playing football in the champions league, why would you care about Juventus - Real Madrid finals.

[kurama]

I'm not sure about the reasons but, that guilds help to make the game a popular game with their streams and youtube videos, ok maybe Blizzard dont care about just 0.5% of the population, but they deffinitely must care about losing their principal and most popular free sponsored people, imagine twitch if the method/serenity/exorsus players dont keep streaming or making youtube videos, not only the active players see them, but a lot of potential new players see them to, one of my friends start to play cuz he saw warcratf in twitch with a lot of viewers.

They also test the raid encounters in beta/ptr, help the addon authors, etc.

[Nephcyte]

I love these QQ threads trying to disguise themselves as something else. OP's just salty cause he's done LFR a hundred times and never once got lucky with loot, still stuck at 860 item level.

Yep, u got me. I Confess.

Is this what you do? Going around patrolling forums. Screening posts with your eagle eye. Assuming who is LFR casual and confronting them? Way to go officer.

[Swalload]

The guilds (correct me if i missed anyone)

Exorsus going casual
From Scratch going casual
Serenity disbanded
Piecies
Midwinter
Ðanish Terrace stopped raiding

Since Serenity is a hot topic right now i wonder what is the most common confirmed issue from those players/guilds that made them go casual or stop in general.

Is it the AP/Legendary system grind for mains, alts (switching alt to the main because better legendary has dropped.)
Which causes general burnout while chasing ap/leg goals and feeling behind and under pressure more then ever because its a race. Compared to previous exp if u play less.

Or is it the feeling of being unrewarded for doing more content and not being in control like someone who did 500 dungeons and 8 legendaries collected not having BiS legendary while some newbie getting it as his 1st one. And of course feeling unrewarded from doing mythic which only provides 900-905 gear and 910 from Guldan. While u can get 905 from weekly chest. And a much higher chance of TitanForge from spamming m+.

Or maybe the most unfair thing people getting 925 Titanforges from LFR, NM etc with 0 effort, while mythic raiders spend countless hours progressing bosses and getting lesser reward.

P.S. Do you think the fact that top guilds are quitting (and this is a blow to wow raiding community) will be a wake up call for Blizzard that their system has some serious flaws or are they just going to ignore that since this is only top end guilds problems who make 0.0001% of player base.

You sound like a very frustrated person who needed an outside reason to complain even more about an overused subject. If you're not a frustrated person, please don't write like one.

That being said, yes there are flaws in the loot system, AP and overall character progression, but that's not enough to make these guilds die. The real problem mostly lies in the mindset of thinking it's impossible to be competitive without doing every single bit of content. These guilds are playing too many toons just for the sake of stacking the OP fotm bullshit, rerolling if their class is 2% behind, it's straight up stupid. Since the beginning of time, guilds with less managed to do more, it's no different now. Sure I'm not talking about doing world first with zero AP, but just sticking to 1 or 2 toons could have given them enough to be competitive without burning out.

They are simply stupid by asking too much of themselves, they think it's all about parsing and numbers, completely forgot about moral and sanity, as you can see, they are all dying because of the latter, they have more than enough parses and numbers.

Edit: it's like olympic athletes, they don't train 24/7, everybody needs time to chill and balance it out, keep your head, mythic guilds lost their head, they show up to competition with huge muscles and a headache, they can't handle it.

[Deleted]

Yep, u got me. I Confess.

Is this what you do? Going around patrolling forums. Screening posts with your eagle eye. Assuming who is LFR casual and confronting them? Way to go officer.

At least be honest instead of trying to disguise your saltiness with a "top end problem". Not a single person playing in a top 10 guild would agree that they get their rewards from LFR and easy content. You get the best gear from mythic raiding.

[Deleted]

At the moment it is nearly impossible to have best in slot gear with best item levels. Even if you are the best player in the world it does not matter, you are not guaranteed this gear so you are never finished. Even worse is that before the race begins, during the preparation phases of the race the way to get the best possible gear is ridiculously easy, but random. So skillwise a lot of people are "good" enough to prepare, and no matter how fucking good you are you can't really affect your luck.

So when you don't have bis items at max i level in every slot, you keep trying cause if you don't you let your guild down. This aspect in previous expansions was less of an issue, now you do so much shit content to prepare and it takes so fucking long no matter how good you are. This from my understanding is the biggest problem. I find it baffling how keen blizzard is on balancing content but it's okay for the rewards to vary so much.

edit: the reason this topic is relevant is that same effect seems to be hitting a lot of other caliber guilds too. So little of the game is spent on doing content that is challenging.

[Lady Dragonheart]

The drama of top-end guilds never concerned me. They break up, reform, quit, and find new talent constantly. So, just like anything else that is competitive, someone stepping down only leaves room for the next person to step up. It is a circle, a generally boring and bland circle.

[ReD-EyeD]

Split raids are to blame.

Nothing else, nothing more.

[Karlz0rz]

My care level is at 1. And after I write this post, it's going down to 0!
I hope the people stepping down are doing it for good reasons though! God speed!

[Skul]

I imagine it is to small of a community for Blizzard to care. While it negatively impacts .01% of players, it adds "replay value" to 80%.

[Reachie10]

I think before they had AP Farming, titan forging, and all this RNG crap, you could get your character to max potential, and then stop having to do all these split raids, and just farm the content you need to.

With titanforging and all this crap, I feel like as a top 10 guild in the world, you constantly keep farming on mutiple characters every week, and there is literally no break, I don't play anymore, but I could be totally off.

There is so much "potential" to make your character better, that you never really can stop playing that character or take a break.

[klaps_05]

Its not about John or LFR guy getting extremly lucky via RNG and getting those items. Its about mythic raiders being unable to obtain those items via progression and effort. (925)

WF/TF should just have a cap based on difficulty you do and the system would be fine.

Mythic raiders are perfectly capable of progressing in time based on the gear they receive. Take a guild which raids regularly and does not fail mechanics and do the best they can with their current gear and before the next Tier comes, they will have Mythic cleared. Once Mythic is on farm, you only need 3-4 rolls of RNGforge and the item will be 925 and a loot council/dkp system can distribute that evenly.

"World First mythic raiders" - in this case Blizzard has clearly laid out how and where you can get your gear/AP. If you have committed to get a World First, you do those things. Why shouldnt World First require that?

"Non-World First mythic raiders" - the issue is always with people being in the wrong guild. if a player is in a guild where what he does matches what the guild requires, then he will prosper and eventually also clear the content before the nex tier. This is why there is so much burnout in guilds - the "game" changed and people thought they can keep up. They realized they couldnt - they will quit, disband, join some other group, go casual, go pvp, etc. It is just a big readjustment period.

Also, while raiding may not reward as many items as speed running max key in M+, Star Augur was first killed at 902.16 ilevel, Elisande at 902.44, Guldan at 904.92. If you cant kill the bosses at these ilevels, then Blizzard has provided you with alternative methods of increasing your players power - M+ and AP. If you want to kill those bosses fast - you grind a lot, if not - you dont. If your guild wants everyone to grind but you dont feel like it - it is not blizzards fault, you are just in the wrong guild.

Blizzards system of players transitioning into higher tiers of raiding is based entirely on WF/TF - it provides the players with the opportunity to move into harder raiding while also benefiting the group they are joining.

[Nephcyte]

Its not about the top end guilds themselves who are like top 10.

They are just the most noticeable and obvious example. This burnout and other problems affect all guilds who what to clear content before it gets nerfed or before next raid at least.

And i do realize that most of the time its just a placebo/paranoya thing thinking that extra trait or having 905 item compared to 925 is really that noticeable or makes you that much more behind if you don't get it. It's just an unconformable and frustrating feeling to play with.

[Teri]

Trading loot/split farming
Heroic being so close to mythic itemlevel
Servers divided too many small servers
No update on guild/recruitment interface since like Cataclysm
Boost runs
Same itemlevel chance from M+
AP farm (endless grind but any tiny advantage is an advantage), for those top 1% mythic pushers.

Now it doesn't mean anyone is forced to grind, not at all, we went from 1 M guldan kill to over 650 in 4 months.

Long term this all hurts the game, even if it's small bits at a time.
I can see the motivation to raid hardcore is dropping when people can get close to the gear levels via heroic, and raid nerfs before the next tier releases...

Now I don't raid, but I have experience from raiding 8 years in a row non stop in the past before all those flex/heroic/mythic were added.

My view might be different then people who raided SOO and WoD and Legion itself.

[durrtygoodz]

The drama of top-end guilds never concerned me. They break up, reform, quit, and find new talent constantly. So, just like anything else that is competitive, someone stepping down only leaves room for the next person to step up. It is a circle, a generally boring and bland circle.

The only thing more boring and bland than guild drama is the people that post about how boring and bland it is.