Single-payer healthcare could cost $400 billion to implement in California

[Independent voter]

What Is Single Payer?

The Current Health Care System in the United States is highly fragmented, with some people belonging to private insurance plans through their workplace, others getting public insurance through plans such as Medicare and Medicaid, and millions lacking health insurance altogether. People have very different coverage: some have plans that don’t cover important services such as prescription drugs, and what you pay out-of-pocket when you actually access care varies as well (different levels of copayments, coinsurance, and deductibles). Lastly, many people have restricted “networks” – they can only seek care from certain doctors or go to certain hospitals.



The way we currently organize health insurance:

Is Expensive: The United States spends more per person than any other country in the world on health care.
Has No Capacity to Control Costs: Our costs are not only high, but rising faster than those of other developed countries.
Is Financially Ruinous for Many Households, Businesses, and Government Budgets: These catastrophic costs are paid disproportionately by low-income people and small businesses.
Leads to Very Poor Health Outcomes: Under this system we actually live shorter lives, and receive much less of the care we need.
Is Highly Discriminatory: Health Care disparities along lines of race, ethnicity, class, gender, and age are unmatched in the developed world.


Single Payer Health Care Systems cover everyone under a single, publicly financed insurance plan that provides comprhenesive health care. Almost all developed nations have some form of universal, publicly financed health care.

Countries who have covered their population under single-payer plans have managed to achieve universal, comprehensive coverage while at the same time actually realizing enormous savings, which is not what you might expect from insuring more people with better coverage. Having a single plan for the whole population also means there aren’t different provider networks for different insurance plans, and everyone is free to choose the doctors, hospitals, and community health centers they use.



Here’s how Single Payer does it:

Access to Prevention: Giving everyone access to primary care without cost barriers reduces how many people get sick in the first place.
Early Intervention: Allowing everyone to have a regular source of care, without cost barriers, allows us to catch illness and injury before it becomes serious (and expensive to treat).
Reducing Insurance Overhead: Private insurance companies spend from 10% to 30% of every health care dollar on overhead: public insurance less than 5%. Single payer plans don’t need to advertise or compete on a market.
Reducing Provider Overhead: When hospitals and physicians send all their bills to one payer (the public insurance plan), they don’t need a billing department to juggle different forms for hundreds of insurance companies, and each doctor and each health care practitioner wastes less of their time on paperwork and devotes more time to actual care.
Bulk Purchasing Power: When there is only one payer for basic medical services and goods, that payer can bargain the best possible prices, and make sure that middle-men aren’t overcharging patients. This in particular drives down the cost of prescription drugs.

http://masscare.org/single-payer/

Massachusetts is trying to implement a single payer plan too. Won't they get a lot of people from other states moving there to take advantage?

[Super Kami Dende]

You think the richest people shouldn't be paying the most in taxes? Again, it's funded by taxes so it's still funded by everyone who pays taxes which is obviously not a minority.

It doesn't matter what I think on the matter, you said that the minority DIDN'T pay the most, whereas the top 1% earners of America pay 38% of the Countries Taxes.

Which still makes my original point true. You are literally saying because some people were successful in life they should be burdened with paying the most for others because of "muh feelings".

Ironically I find most people that cry about Rich people needing to pay their taxes are people that are unemployed or work shitty jobs that pay less in their entire lives in taxes than some do in a year and the illegals who they want free Healthcare for pay NO taxes.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh won't someone think of the fabulously wealthy!

Oh won't someone think of the lazy and illegal!

[Bathory]

About those arguments about how universal healthcare would cost the US so much money:

We already spend more tax money than every single country other than Norway. When you add in private funds we dwarf every other country. All of that money and the system is still a heaping pile of shit. Everyone bitches about how much it would cost when the real problem is how we spend the money we already allocate. Proper universal healthcare paired with a healthcare system that wasn't managed by a 4th grade art class would most likely save us money.

Thank you. We pay way more and get way less.

[GreenJesus]

It doesn't matter what I think on the matter, you said that the minority DIDN'T pay the most, whereas the top 1% earners of America pay 38% of the Countries Taxes.

Which still makes my original point true. You are literally saying because some people were successful in life they should be burdened with paying the most for others because of "muh feelings".

Ironically I find most people that cry about Rich people needing to pay their taxes are people that are unemployed or work shitty jobs that pay less in their entire lives in taxes than some do in a year and the illegals who they want free Healthcare for pay NO taxes.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh won't someone think of the lazy and illegal!

Yep it is always someone that makes like 30k and is super salty.

[Theinquisition]

Nope, no one's life is worth zero to me.

But apparently to him everyone who didn't serve the country's life is worth nothing since the mere suggestion of spending money on them offends him so much.

I dont think ive ever said that.

[Grauk]

No, but you've certainly implied it. The fact that you served is great, but you don't deserve anything more than the single mom that struggles to feed her kids while going to college and doing her best. Or the student thats struggling to make it through college as the first in his family to graduate. Or anyone else that struggles and sacrifices trying to do better or improve themselves. Lets not act like you were fighting in world war 2 defending America. Hate to break it to you, but either way you're paying for people to get treatment, it's a question of efficiency, insurance drops the prices, without it those same people are going to the emergency room and costing the taxpayer (that's you allegedly).

[Clone]

Damn, give the gov't some aloe for that burn.

It's true though, our gov't sucks at running things, which is why I don't want their hands in the pot regarding healthcare, it will take a shit system and turn it into even stinker shit

You are just gonna have to get used to it. The private sector is what made sure it's a shit system and you sure as hell isn't stepping up.

[yurano]

It works out to $5019 a year per person (based on the current population of CA, not what it would be in the future when this would be implemented). Again, it sounds like a lot. Then I decided to check what I paid for my single coverage. Its $430 a month for me. That works out to $5160 a year. So IF I lived in CA and IF this was implemented, it would actually be slightly cheaper for me. When I factor in what I'm paying for my deductible, this is actually MUCH cheaper per year.

But would your level of coverage go up or down? That's the problem.

There are a lot of people (eg illegal immigrants) can't afford $5019 per person ($20,000 per family of 4), and there aren't THAT many filthy rich people.

Your $5K is subsidizing other people's care. Therefore, your level of coverage will go down.

Thank you. We pay way more and get way less.

Let's be honest, the average American is unhealthy as F. The more unhealthy the patient, the more healthcare costs (exponentially).

[Theinquisition]

You are just gonna have to get used to it. The private sector is what made sure it's a shit system and you sure as hell isn't stepping up.

Me....me personally?

[Utigarde]

Care to show us how much we spend on military too? Or would we rather spend tax dollars on wars than saving people's lives.

[Varitok]

But would your level of coverage go up or down? That's the problem.

There are a lot of people (eg illegal immigrants) can't afford $5019 per person ($20,000 per family of 4), and there aren't THAT many filthy rich people. Your level of coverage will likely go down.



Let's be honest, the average American is unhealthy as F. The more unhealthy the patient, the more healthcare costs (exponentially).

Thats a poor excuse and one not backed by facts. UK has high Obesity rates and yet has extremely cheap healthcare compared to even other singlepayer systems.

[Kellhound]

The kicker makes it impossible to have a rainy day fund. They've had to give money back to taxpayers quite a few times since its implementation.

PERS prevents them from having a balanced budget period.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

About those arguments about how universal healthcare would cost the US so much money:

We already spend more tax money than every single country other than Norway. When you add in private funds we dwarf every other country. All of that money and the system is still a heaping pile of shit. Everyone bitches about how much it would cost when the real problem is how we spend the money we already allocate. Proper universal healthcare paired with a healthcare system that wasn't managed by a 4th grade art class would most likely save us money.

Nah, the real problem is the ridiculous fees the medical field charges for their services, and the even more ridiculous paychecks doctors get for being glorified mechanics.

[toxicrusader]

If the illegals weren't here in the first place they wouldn't be at the hospital. And we wouldn't have to pay for their healthcare. Check mate.

Where is your huuuuuge wall when you need it, huh?

[Sunseeker]

If the illegals weren't here in the first place they wouldn't be at the hospital. And we wouldn't have to pay for their healthcare. Check mate.

And if wishes were fishes we'd all eat for free.

[Allarius]

Nah, the real problem is the ridiculous fees the medical field charges for their services, and the even more ridiculous paychecks doctors get for being glorified mechanics.

They honestly don't have much of a choice. Doctors are so expensive, not because they're trying to make a lot of money, but because you're paying for a highly qualified individual(Medical school is definitely not cheap) and because they have expenses of their own that take a sizable portion of that fee. If doctors didn't have to pay so much for things like malpractice insurance and what not, they'd be able to lower their prices substantially. Also the medical field is not the problem, it's the people who supply them. Big pharma is a direct cause of a significant amount of cost because they care more about profits than saving lives. That gets passed on to the hospitals and doctors who use their stuff.

Not to mention, hospital equipment is very expensive in itself, the only way the hospital can afford good equipment is by charging you as the customer more money to use it. Case in point being MRI's. http://time.com/money/2995166/why-do...-cost-so-much/

Now obviously certain places take some of the factors to their extreme, but a lot of the medical professionals have their hands tied behind their back when it comes to costs.

[Whitedragon]

US healthcare spending:
$3.2 trillion, ~$10,000 per person. (only 86% of people covered)

Proposed CA single payer system healthcare spending:
$400 billion for 40 million people, ~$10,000 per person. (100% of people covered)

So what's the issue?

because proposed and actual cost are going to be separate numbers?

As to the subject at hand, it will be interesting to see if it succeeds or fails.
If they make something worthwhile grate! maybe something for others to build something else out of in the future, conversely if it fails they need to let it burn and not go pleading for the Fed to bail them out, and sustain their crashed program on national money.
I would find it funny though, if it dose fail and they do scrap, we may end up with the people of CA demanding that the rest of the US fits the bill because they now NEED the coverage, and it would be "Inhumane" to take it away now...

[TITAN308]

gee i wonder why supertony is bitching about healthcare costs and illegal immigrants? tell us supertony what is your real agenda behind this obvious attempt at painting single payer as bad for the country.

Are you going to debate his claims and/or the article or not?

[Halicia]

There's also a lot of inefficiency in the healthcare system.

Profit is the greatest inefficiency, imo.

If a certain treatment can be provided at half the cost than you can treat twice the patients if you reduce the profit margins involved.

[Theinquisition]

Where is the word "most" in my initial reply to your post? I'm saying that most people that advocate for this are also paying taxes and therefore are also funding the healthcare. You seem to think only poor people are liberal or something.

You find this based on what? Actual evidence or your feelings? Weird how the more educated tend to also have higher income, lean to the more liberal side which also happens to be the side supporting higher taxes. Almost like reality disagrees with how you feel the way things how.

Not sure where I was crying about rich people either. But obviously someone making 250k+ a year can much more easily pay 30-50% in taxes than someone making 20-100k a year.

- - - Updated - - -



So, if you're not in a top income bracket you're either lazy or illegal?

- - - Updated - - -



I'll refer you to my reply as well.

Just from reading several user's posts on this forum, it even seems the more successful and educated people here are mostly liberal. I've been out of grad school less than a year and I already make 100k+/year, so I'm not really interested in hearing your wishful thinking that all liberals are poor/lazy.

This is always funny to me.

Do you really think people are being honest about their occupation and earnings on a video game off topic forum?

I mean for reals....im a conservative millionaire that can buy and sell everyone on this forum.