Gear Set up

[Deleted]

Hello my fellow DKs, I have a doubt about my gear set up, right now im going with 912 Ilvl, 17% crit 14% haste and a 100% of mastery.
My doubt is, will perform better another build with 17% crit 17%haste and 93% mastery, all considering Ill mantein the 912 Ilvl and the same strenght.
I go with brazers and kil´jaedens, and 937 weapon.

BONUS: I have a 910 blood relic with scourge of the ubeliever trait equiped, the thing is I obtained in M+ a plaguebearer 900 should I equip it.

Thanks for your help.

[Deleted]

If you have the 4xT19 + Soul Reaper, you dont need more haste.
You can try to reach 20% crit without too much lowering your mastery. This allows to greatly enhance the mastery.

Obv the relic 900 Plaguebearer is better than 910 Scourge of the ubeliever. (a 865 plaguebearer is better too bro).

when we'll equiped the T20, haste will become more interesting (around 20-21%).

[Deleted]

If you have the 4xT19 + Soul Reaper, you dont need more haste.
You can try to reach 20% crit without too much lowering your mastery. This allows to greatly enhance the mastery.

Obv the relic 900 Plaguebearer is better than 910 Scourge of the ubeliever. (a 865 plaguebearer is better too bro).

when we'll equiped the T20, haste will become more interesting (around 20-21%).

Thanks for the tips mate, ill try to reach the 20% of crit then, and ill change my relic

[Cerunnir]

Thanks for the tips mate, ill try to reach the 20% of crit then, and ill change my relic

Its better to put as much as you can in mastery than to for whatever reason get crit to 20%.

Your crit is perfect at 17%, so is your haste at 17%. Mastery at 93% is also very good. His suggestion to get crit to 20% without sacrificing mastery is quite hard without also increasing ilvl. If your gonna increase a stat anyways, its better to put it in mastery than crit.

14% haste in your current build should also be enaugh, since mastery is always going to be king. But 14% haste is a bit low for the feel of the spec.

Anyways:

If you have extra stats to increase crit from 17 to 20, then its better to take those stats and instead increase mastery from 93/(100) to X.

[Deleted]

His suggestion to get crit to 20% without sacrificing mastery is quite hard without also increasing ilvl.

If he is luckier than me that he has several sockets on his stuff, it works very well (Sockets for mastery of course).
for exemple:
You can take a item with 800 masteries + 650 crit + No sockets => 800 crit + 650 masteries + Socket (150 masteries)
that's the idea to have more crit and same mastery with the same Ilvl

Like this you can go from 17%crit - 100% mastery to 20% crit - 100% mastery (with same %haste and Ilvl)

Obv 17% - 103 Mastery is better.

I'm not very lucky, I only have one socket.

The second way are the trinkets and the ilvl of the weapon to get some Crit and Mastery.

[Cerunnir]

If he is luckier than me that he has several sockets on his stuff, it works very well (Sockets for mastery of course).
for exemple:
You can take a item with 800 masteries + 650 crit + No sockets => 800 crit + 650 masteries + Socket (150 masteries)
that's the idea to have more crit and same mastery with the same Ilvl

Like this you can go from 17%crit - 100% mastery to 20% crit - 100% mastery (with same %haste and Ilvl)

Obv 17% - 103 Mastery is better.

I'm not very lucky, I only have one socket.

The second way are the trinkets and the ilvl of the weapon to get some Crit and Mastery.

For the stat points that would give you 3% crit, you could get way more than 3% mastery. Mastery is cheap per percentage, cheaper than all the other stats. I belive versatility is the most expensive per percent.

[Deleted]

If you have the 4xT19 + Soul Reaper, you dont need more haste.
You can try to reach 20% crit without too much lowering your mastery. This allows to greatly enhance the mastery.

Obv the relic 900 Plaguebearer is better than 910 Scourge of the ubeliever. (a 865 plaguebearer is better too bro).

when we'll equiped the T20, haste will become more interesting (around 20-21%).

If you are fighting 5+ targets, sure. On ST it's around 10k loss for my character at least.

[Deleted]

If you are fighting 5+ targets, sure. On ST it's around 10k loss for my character at least.

Dont be kid

10k Loss on Simcraft (Patchwerk style)

If you deal 800k dps (for exemple), 10k = 1.25% dps loss => on Simcraft only (perfect fight, No move, No switch, perfect RnG)

On live, you are never in patchwerk fight, you have to move, leave the boss, switch...As many times as you do not hit the boss and as Scourge of the ubeliever is useless.
Unlike virulent plague

So yes, 865 Plagebearer > 910 Scourge of the ubeliever

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For the stat points that would give you 3% crit, you could get way more than 3% mastery. Mastery is cheap per percentage, cheaper than all the other stats. I belive versatility is the most expensive per percent.

You forget something very important about UH-DK

The more you have mastery, the more the crit is valued.

The figures of 17% crit were calculated with an amount of mastery around 85%

[Cerunnir]

Dont be kid

10k Loss on Simcraft (Patchwerk style)

If you deal 800k dps (for exemple), 10k = 1.25% dps loss => on Simcraft only (perfect fight, No move, No switch, perfect RnG)

On live, you are never in patchwerk fight, you have to move, leave the boss, switch...As many times as you do not hit the boss and as Scourge of the ubeliever is useless.
Unlike virulent plague

So yes, 865 Plagebearer > 910 Scourge of the ubeliever

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You forget something very important about UH-DK

The more you have mastery, the more the crit is valued.

The figures of 17% crit were calculated with an amount of mastery around 85%

I have 15% crit and 85% mastery on my character, and mastery is still way ahead of crit.

[Deleted]

I have 15% crit and 85% mastery on my character, and mastery is still way ahead of crit.

Ok, then try to sim a character with only Mastery and 0% crit (because its your first stats) and you will see that you lose Dps.

[Cerunnir]

Ok, then try to sim a character with only Mastery and 0% crit (because its your first stats) and you will see that you lose Dps.

Ofcourse, but the breakpoint isnt at 17%, its more like 13%. If you have above 13% crit, and haste around 17-21 you generally want to go full on mastery.

If you have 17% crit, it makes zero sense to persue 20% if you are able to put it in mastery instead.

[Deleted]

Ofcourse, but the breakpoint isnt at 17%, its more like 13%. If you have above 13% crit, and haste around 17-21 you generally want to go full on mastery.

If you have 17% crit, it makes zero sense to persue 20% if you are able to put it in mastery instead.

ok, understand this.

The more you have Mastery (without touching the crit) and the more the weight of the crit will increase

I cant explain more clearly

[Cerunnir]

ok, understand this.

The more you have Mastery (without touching the crit) and the more the weight of the crit will increase

I cant explain more clearly

And you're clearly understood, as I have a very good understanding of how scaling works. What I specifically disagree with was your advice to this guy that he should up his crit to 20%, instead of persuing more mastery. Unless you move your crit under like 13%, mastery is pretty much always gonna be top dog unless you have practically unobtainable amounts of mastery.

So, this guy instead of upping his crit to 20 should rather lower it to 15 and move the stats to mastery if he can.

[Deleted]

And you're clearly understood, as I have a very good understanding of how scaling works. What I specifically disagree with was your advice to this guy that he should up his crit to 20%, instead of persuing more mastery. Unless you move your crit under like 13%, mastery is pretty much always gonna be top dog unless you have practically unobtainable amounts of mastery.

I will repeat.
The 17% crit cap had been given on an 85% mastery basis.
For a better optimization, on a 100% mastery basis, it is necessary to slightly raise crit and not leave it at 17%
These two stats evolve together (rise and fall together)

So you can disagree with my advice, but its true optimization.

I do not know the exact score of crit the OP needs with 100% mastery. This would require several simcraft, etc. but that's more than 17%, for sure.

If you remember the beginning of 7.1.5
No Theoricrafter agreed on an exact score of crit. Some said 13% and another 18%. This is because all of their Simcraft tests relied on a different mastery score ... so a different crit optimization.

[Cerunnir]

I will repeat.
The 17% crit cap had been given on an 85% mastery basis.
For a better optimization, on a 100% mastery basis, it is necessary to slightly raise crit and not leave it at 17%
These two stats evolve together (rise and fall together)

So you can disagree with my advice, but its true optimization.

I do not know the exact score of crit the OP needs with 100% mastery. This would require several simcraft, etc. but that's more than 17%, for sure.

If you remember the beginning of 7.1.5
No Theoricrafter agreed on an exact score of crit. Some said 13% and another 18%. This is because all of their Simcraft tests relied on a different mastery score ... so a different crit optimization.

Strength=18.59, CritRating=16.50, HasteRating=15.71, MasteryRating=18.25, Versatility=15.12

Thats my scale weights with about 16% crit, 17% haste and 85% mastery.

Notice how crit still is way behind mastery, by way to big a difference to make up for an increase to 93% mastery which is the case now. I've simmed my character extensivly over many iterations of gear and ilvl with varying crit, haste and mastery rating between 13-23 crit, 14-21 haste and mastery between 80 and 100 and I have never seen crit being valued higher than mastery.

Crit will overvalue mastery at a certain point, but then crit have to be very low and mastery very high. The 13-18 number was just a baseline realistic target, not some reference to how crit scales relating to mastery. Above 18 crit tend to fall off quite heavily in value compared to mastery, so its no real reason to ever persue anything above that. UH discord did not disagree on what crit we should persue, some did not say 13 and some 18. People generally fully agreed it was in the range of 13-18. We were gonna end up with some crit anyways, but trying to limit it to maximum 18 was realistic at the ilvl, and a good point to stop crit before it got to devalued.

[Deleted]

Strength=18.59, CritRating=16.50, HasteRating=15.71, MasteryRating=18.25, Versatility=15.12

Thats my scale weights with about 16% crit, 17% haste and 85% mastery.

Notice how crit still is way behind mastery, by way to big a difference to make up for an increase to 93% mastery which is the case now. I've simmed my character extensivly over many iterations of gear and ilvl with varying crit, haste and mastery rating between 13-23 crit, 14-21 haste and mastery between 80 and 100 and I have never seen crit being valued higher than mastery.

Crit will overvalue mastery at a certain point, but then crit have to be very low and mastery very high. The 13-18 number was just a baseline realistic target, not some reference to how crit scales relating to mastery. Above 18 crit tend to fall off quite heavily in value compared to mastery, so its no real reason to ever persue anything above that.

you dont want to understand,

Remains with your certainties

[Cerunnir]

you dont want to understand,

Remains with your certainties

No its you that dont want to understand Your statement about specific breakpoints where crit will become better than mastery is correct, but your numbers is way to high for crit.

[Deleted]

No its you that dont want to understand

i NEVER said crit is valued higher than mastery
So YES, you dont want to understand what i said.

Now, you can continue to bring more and more Masteries without without worrying about the balance of the stats.

One last for you:
This is an example to explain how the balance between Crit and mastery works.

The more you have mastery and the more the crit will have a significant weight (without ever exceeding the mastery)

Example 1:
17% crit and 85% mastery => stats weight: Mastery = 18 and Crit 14
17% crit and 100% mastery => stats weight: Mastery 18 and crit 14.5

This is an example to illustrate how the balance between these two stats works. We must take into account the haste and the strenght on your character too. What makes it complicated.

I repeat, this numbers are here to illustrate how it works

[Deleted]

I managed to fix my set up with a 20% crit 14% haste and 99% mastery and I had a valuable Dps increase, so is confirmed that the weight of the crit goes up with the increment of masteries.

[Cerunnir]

i NEVER said crit is valued higher than mastery
So YES, you dont want to understand what i said.

Now, you can continue to bring more and more Masteries without without worrying about the balance of the stats.

One last for you:
This is an example to explain how the balance between Crit and mastery works.

The more you have mastery and the more the crit will have a significant weight (without ever exceeding the mastery)

Example 1:
17% crit and 85% mastery => stats weight: Mastery = 18 and Crit 14
17% crit and 100% mastery => stats weight: Mastery 18 and crit 14.5

This is an example to illustrate how the balance between these two stats works. We must take into account the haste and the strenght on your character too. What makes it complicated.

I repeat, this numbers are here to illustrate how it works

And you stated he should try to increase his crit to 20%. This involve spending x amount of stat point in crit, and they have to come from somwhere. Either higher ilvl, different stat balance or equipping a stat-trinket instead of proc trinket. In all cases except ilvl you have to take something from somewhere to increase something somewhere else. The only way I can see him upping crit to 20% without sacrificing mastery or a trinket proc is to take it from versatilty, since he should not lower his haste. Second choise is to increase ilvl. Lets say you manage to incease it and you gain 600 points to put in a stat. Both at 85 and 100 mastery you would gain the most by putting all those points in mastery. If you put 600 points in mastery thats about 10k DPS with your stat balances. If you put it in crit, even if you consider the increase of percentages in mastery, its not gonna scale better. So lets say crit scaling increase to 15 by putting those 600 points in mastery, its still only going to increase it by maximum 9000 (Its a tad lower actually since then you took the stats from mastery and lowered your crit scaling down again).

There exist a point where crit scaling will go above mastery scaling, and it will become better to persue crit. But that point is at like 13% crit, and increased very slowly by increasing mastery. You will never obtain enaugh mastery to make it worth stacking crit at 17% crit rating.