Marvel VP of Sales blames diversity for falling comic book sales

[Ivanstone]

We can look at individual cases and some are bad (America, BP&C) and some are good (Ms. Marvel, Unworthy Thor). but overall I think Marvel were too heavy handed with their agenda.

I hope this whole thing just ends-up being Marvel's New 52. Some good characters and ideas will emerge out of it but the rest will just fall by the side.

I don't think its heavy handed. Just let it shake out and hope for the best. It may sound like they were just spitballing with your money but that's all its ever been.

That's the entire point. Except that the stuff that falls by the way side may come back in a more interesting manner.

Most old characters are fucking lame. Sometimes they get modified into something more interesting. Wolverine looked pretty lame when he started but Len Wein refined him later and Chris Claremont and John Byrne ran with it.

Think about Black Panther. Slightly ripped off from the Batman but most people seem to accept him nowadays. He's had 50 years to percolate in the public consciousness. I still have to wonder how much hate mail Marvel must've received back in the day for introducing a black character. Remember he's from a time when comics were more widely read and America was much more openly racist.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I wonder if these comic books companies DC and Marvel create these controversial comics as a way of viral marketing? Anyone who has an internet presence, Youtube, blog, w/e will tell you a good way to get traffic to your site is to generate controversy, get some SJW group to attack you for example?

One of the things is the companies don't release demographic info so it's hard to guess what's going on.

oh i'm sure it is the whole new iron man is a black teen thing got them tons of attention even though the new iron man was aquatically doctor doom.

[Dangg]

If you change a character's race or gender just for the sake of disversity it's laziness and bad writing.

Also isn't print media just getting less popular across the board? The price is a freaking joke too.

[Deleted]

Aren't comic books pretty bad in general these days?
The good story arcs seem to have ended in the 1990's and all you have nowadays are reboots, alternative universes and Thor with boobs.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If you change a character's race or gender just for the sake of disversity it's laziness and bad writing.

Also isn't print media just getting less popular across the board? The price is a freaking joke too.

they haven't changed any one's race or gender.

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Aren't comic books pretty bad in general these days?
The good story arcs seem to have ended in the 1990's and all you have nowadays are reboots, alternative universes and Thor with boobs.

planet hulk and world war hulk were amazing story arc's and not reboots or alternative universes so was dark reign siege the runnaways ect.

[Deleted]

planet hulk and world war hulk were amazing story arc's and not reboots or alternative universes so was dark reign siege the runnaways ect.

Ah yes, you are right. Forgot about those.

[cyberglum]

Aren't comic books pretty bad in general these days?
The good story arcs seem to have ended in the 1990's and all you have nowadays are reboots, alternative universes and Thor with boobs.

I fucking love that you reduced the whole debate to "Thor with boobs", it made me chortle.

I'll take this as an opportunity to suggest, if people really want social commentary sweetened with satire in their comics, look for the Flintstones trade which should be coming soon as DC's 12-issue series is just about to end.

Its been really good the whole run.

[Berndorf]

I don't think its heavy handed. Just let it shake out and hope for the best. It may sound like they were just spitballing with your money but that's all its ever been.

That's the entire point. Except that the stuff that falls by the way side may come back in a more interesting manner.

Most old characters are fucking lame. Sometimes they get modified into something more interesting. Wolverine looked pretty lame when he started but Len Wein refined him later and Chris Claremont and John Byrne ran with it.

Think about Black Panther. Slightly ripped off from the Batman but most people seem to accept him nowadays. He's had 50 years to percolate in the public consciousness. I still have to wonder how much hate mail Marvel must've received back in the day for introducing a black character. Remember he's from a time when comics were more widely read and America was much more openly racist.

I think given that comics were pretty much under the adult radar back in the 60's and often kids are less racist than adults so I doubt they really got much hate mail for Panther. Now in the internet age anything that people could possibly act outraged over or protest about they will. Things get endlessly beaten to death on message boards now in a way they never were before the internet became popular.

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Aren't comic books pretty bad in general these days?
The good story arcs seem to have ended in the 1990's and all you have nowadays are reboots, alternative universes and Thor with boobs.

I think a lot of comic fans look down on the 90's to some degree(not that there weren't well done runs/story arcs in the decade) and would say there was a strong resurgence in overall quality in the 2000's but that Marvel has sort of gone to shit in the last few years. I frequent a site that is solely about comics and find that a lot of Marvel readers have switched to dc in recent times or just stopped reading current titles.

[Deleted]

Haven't we heard this before?

-Daredevil movie does poorly: "People must not like Daredevil movies"
-Catwoman movie does poorly: "People must not like female superhero movies"

Well as a woman, I have to admit I dont like seeing female characters punching the bejesus out of everyone. My friends agree with me there.. my mom agrees. I mean in general we sort of like these movies but none of us wants to see some skinny girl with fake boobs kick the living hell out of guys 5 times their size... its just comical and fake.

[Berndorf]

Well as a woman, I have to admit I dont like seeing female characters punching the bejesus out of everyone. My friends agree with me there.. my mom agrees. I mean in general we sort of like these movies but none of us wants to see some skinny girl with fake boobs kick the living hell out of guys 5 times their size... its just comical and fake.

Female characters as opposed to male characters? Its not really like its realistic seeing Superman fly up and lift something that weighs 100 tons either.

[Deleted]

Female characters as opposed to male characters? Its not really like its realistic seeing Superman fly up and lift something that weighs 100 tons either.

Well hes a superman.. but why not remain realistic even when remaining in that fantasy?

Supergirl could beat all normal men for sure (as well as women) but a special agent girl would certainly not win against any half trained guy in a fair fight let alone that stupid holding someone against the wall with their heels. I mean they have the wall, he could just push her over.. its so stupid and PC.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well hes a superman.. but why not remain realistic even when remaining in that fantasy?

Supergirl could beat all normal men for sure (as well as women) but a special agent girl would certainly not win against any half trained guy in a fair fight let alone that stupid holding someone against the wall with their heels. I mean they have the wall, he could just push her over.. its so stupid and PC.

and how many special agent girls are even in comics? i can only think of 3 that come to mind and two of those are all kungfu flip kicks like black widow.

[Deleted]

and how many special agent girls are even in comics? i can only think of 3 that come to mind and two of those are all kungfu flip kicks like black widow.

Well Im talking about the Avengers movies.. I watched the first one with my 2 friends(girls), 1 stormed out in the middle although I found it quite enjoyable. Then the second one.. or maybe it was the Captain America one, she got really mad I dragged her to see it it again. Ok it was really boring at least so I'll give her that. In any case, from my perspective, I liked the movies, just found those scenes with Scarlett kicking the bejesus out of everyone fake and stupid. Maybe it is just me though.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well Im talking about the Avengers movies.. I watched the first one with my 2 friends(girls), 1 stormed out in the middle although I found it quite enjoyable. Then the second one.. or maybe it was the Captain America one, she got really mad I dragged her to see it it again. Ok it was really boring at least so I'll give her that. In any case, from my perspective, I liked the movies, just found those scenes with Scarlett kicking the bejesus out of everyone fake and stupid. Maybe it is just me though.

well blackwidow does have some kind of enchants so she is super human id guess that's the main reason she can beat any one.

[Deleted]

Just because some tumblarina complains of lack of diversity doesn't mean that others of that minority are suddenly going to be awash with comic readers when you appease that tumblarina.

By that i mean sometimes untapped markets are untapped for a reason. 'Insert economics,culture, etc reason here' for why they don't buy your product.

[Berndorf]

Well hes a superman.. but why not remain realistic even when remaining in that fantasy?

Supergirl could beat all normal men for sure (as well as women) but a special agent girl would certainly not win against any half trained guy in a fair fight let alone that stupid holding someone against the wall with their heels. I mean they have the wall, he could just push her over.. its so stupid and PC.

ok. For some reason I thought you were referring to Wonder Woman but i agree that non super powered characters should generally be attempted to be kept more realistic in movies. Though at the end of the day they are super heroes so will be doing things like beating up thugs left and right.

[Orby]

@cyberglum I am looking at your Thing avatar and I am remembering a time when Wolverine, Gambit and Thing used to smoke in the comics. Think Nick Fury did too.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

@cyberglum I am looking at your Thing avatar and I am remembering a time when Wolverine, Gambit and Thing used to smoke in the comics. Think Nick Fury did too.

smoking cant possible be good for you when your lungs are made out of rocks.

[Berndorf]

@cyberglum I am looking at your Thing avatar and I am remembering a time when Wolverine, Gambit and Thing used to smoke in the comics. Think Nick Fury did too.

I'll tell you something that sort of blew me away recently is I was watching an episode of late night with Johnny Carson from the early 70's on youtube and he had a guest on since it is a talk show and his guest pulled out a cigarette which Johnny lit up for him and then lit one for himself and they smoked them through the whole interview. It was very strange to watch especially since Johnny Carson had such a wholesome kind of image. I also recall Wolverine smoking cigars and didn't realize they had put an end to it.

[Orby]

I'll tell you something that sort of blew me away recently is I was watching an episode of late night with Johnny Carson from the early 70's on youtube and he had a guest on since it is a talk show and his guest pulled out a cigarette which Johnny lit up for him and then lit one for himself and they smoked them through the whole interview. It was very strange to watch especially since Johnny Carson had such a wholesome kind of image. I also recall Wolverine smoking cigars and didn't realize they had put an end to it.

I cannot pin point when they stopped making marvel characters smoke. Think it was early 00's Last time I remember Wolverine smoking was in the Grant Morrison run of New X-Men that run from 2001 - 2004