Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Deleted]

Also small buffs to Toxic Blade and Exhang, still seens like Alacricity is better...

If you base your assumption on sims, keep in mind that garrote (subter) + exsang may still have a poor APL profile (it had the last time i looked). Check the sample sequence to verify.

maybe Exhang is better now but that crap needs an entirely different stat priority, Id rather not go Exhang...

For me it's okay, it goes well with Outlaw gear anyways. Not going to bother with Blizzards BoT bullshit anymore now that Toxic* Blade only increases poison damage so you basically pray for procs during its uptime.

[NtflxnChill]

If you base your assumption on sims, keep in mind that garrote (subter) + exsang may still have a poor APL profile (it had the last time i looked). Check the sample sequence to verify.



For me it's okay, it goes well with Outlaw gear anyways. Not going to bother with Blizzards BoT bullshit anymore now that Toxic* Blade only increases poison damage so you basically pray for procs during its uptime.

You should probably learn what "poison" affects before you talk.

[Deleted]

You should probably learn what "poison" affects before you talk.

Says the guy who thinks shoulders are bis next patch with the poison build. You do know it increased all damage before, like AP, right?

Edit: My point still stands, as long as TB empowers PB. This will make its variance even worse. That is my point I was making, in case you didn't get it.

[shaunika123]

Says the guy who thinks shoulders are bis next patch with the poison build. You do know it increased all damage before, like AP right?

they are tho until we swap to the new set (which is total garbage i might add)
so that kinda backfired

and no it never increased all damage

it just increased poison damage

it does the exact same thing it used to
they just changed the word "nature" to "poison"

[Deleted]

they are tho until we swap to the new set (which is total garbage i might add)
so that kinda backfired

and no it never increased all damage

it just increased poison damage

it does the exact same thing it used to
they just changed the word "nature" to "poison"

What is your point? You are going to play with nerfed T19 through ToS? I am talking about Mythic Progression with T20 later.

And I mean yeah you can say "They are BiS". I am going to say "no they are not", because I've done plenty of simulations with different APLs on that. The shoulders are competitive with the bleed build because you can fit in almost the entire subter garrote with it, and thats about it.

[shaunika123]

What is your point? You are going to play with nerfed T19 through ToS? I am talking about Mythic Progression with T20 later.

And I mean yeah you can say "They are BiS". I am going to say "no they are not", because I've done plenty of simulations with different APLs on that. The shoulders are competitive with the bleed build because you can fit in almost the entire subter garrote with it, and thats about it.

no but i mean, even with splitraids you might not get your 4pc the first week, and you could easily have high rolled t19s
so at least for the first few weeks t19 could easily be more prevalent, and for that shoulders are bis.
even with the nerf the bonuses themselves are better than the t20 ones

yes i totally agree with you on that later it wont be bis, in fact i already went into the same argument with him a couple days ago, but it seemed like you were implying that shoulders are instantly out the window in the new patch which isnt true. if not my bad.

you're still wrong about TB tho

[Deleted]

yes i totally agree with you on that later it wont be bis, in fact i already went into the same argument with him a couple days ago, but it seemed like you were implying that shoulders are instantly out the window in the new patch which isnt true.

Which I never said.

you're still wrong about TB tho

I guess I have to concede on that "all damage" one. I simply remembered it wrong.
Still that doesn't render my argument about PB damage invalid. Vendetta + TB affecting PB will make the spec proc dependent as hell. It's worse than ever.

[shaunika123]

Which I never said.

I guess I have to concede on that "all damage" one. I simply remembered it wrong.
Still that doesn't render my argument about PB damage invalid. Vendetta + TB affecting PB will make the spec proc dependent as hell. It's worse than ever.

well i mean
PB affecting vendetta is a buff
so at worst it's the same, at best it's better

which is while not optimal, doesnt really warrant crying about.
a situational buff is still a buff.

it's like if you got a lottery ticket for free, if you win you're happy if you dont it's the same as before

and i never said toxic blades isnt a horribly misdesigned abomination of a spell, basically everything with it is wrong, so i wont argue with you on that, PB RNG affecting it is just the icing on a shit filled cake

[Deleted]

well i mean
PB affecting vendetta is a buff
so at worst it's the same, at best it's better

which is while not optimal, doesnt really warrant crying about.

It does. If your class gets buffs in the wrong department (i.e. RNG), that's something to voice criticism about. Personally I don't want a spec that has such huge variance on a spell which was supposed be an AoE supplement. They should buff the spec elsewhere instead.

That said, Vendetta not affecting PB from the start was a mistake in itself.

[shaunika123]

It does. If your class gets buffs in the wrong department (i.e. RNG), that's something to voice criticism about. Personally I don't want a spec that has such huge variance on a spell which was supposed be an AoE supplement. They should buff the spec elsewhere instead.

That said, Vendetta not affecting PB from the start was a mistake in itself.

okay fair enough, but it's better than nothing.

it's not like they went "well we gave PB to vendetta so we'll nerf the overall dmg the spec by 0.2% to compensate", we got that buff for "free"
they still buffed other stuff like exsang and TB

and assa is a spec that has been almost always about tunneling the shit out of one target with high ST damage, and maybe a bit of dot spreading

AOE was never it's forte, so if we were gonna have any AOE at all it was always gonna be either RNG or a big tradeoff of ST dmg
not every spec has to do everything the best,

we're a tri dps spec class, we got outlaw if we want to AOE, that's one of the nice things about being a pure dps, we can(ideally) specilize our character more for the role it needs to be.

and anyway it's not like assa is really underperforming, im still pulling 1mil overall dps in mythic+ and stuff, our AOE is good enough that our ST balances it out, the only thing we lack is sudden burst AOE but our sustained AOE isnt bad at all.
hell if we really need burst AOE we can go shoulders+cloak and have that too, remember FoK is getting a pretty big buff in 7.2.5

[ymirsson]

and assa is a spec that has been almost always about tunneling the shit out of one target with high ST damage, and maybe a bit of dot spreading

AOE was never it's forte, so if we were gonna have any AOE at all it was always gonna be either RNG or a big tradeoff of ST dmg
not every spec has to do everything the best,

we're a tri dps spec class, we got outlaw if we want to AOE, that's one of the nice things about being a pure dps, we can(ideally) specilize our character more for the role it needs to be.

And that still is bullshit design.

[shaunika123]

And that still is bullshit design.

I mean, i guess we could have 36 specs that all do the same abilities with different names but, what would be the point?

[ymirsson]

I mean, i guess we could have 36 specs that all do the same abilities with different names but, what would be the point?

I guess we could hyperbole our way to salvation, but what would be the point?
Dont act like you don't know what i mean, unless you want to insult everyone's intelligence.

[shaunika123]

I guess we could hyperbole our way to salvation, but what would be the point?
Dont act like you don't know what i mean, unless you want to insult everyone's intelligence.

i know exactly what you mean ,but having a weakness, is not shitty design

[Wow]

I mean, i guess we could have 36 specs that all do the same abilities with different names but, what would be the point?

Doing niche specs would be fine if there weren't do it all specs that are as strong as they are. I agree it's a fine design if fully done right but with how the game is it's a shitty design.

[shaunika123]

Doing niche specs would be fine if there weren't do it all specs that are as strong as they are. I agree it's a fine design if fully done right but with how the game is it's a shitty design.

well yeah sure, but it's literally impossible to actually balance this many specs on this many things
and for specs that have only 1 dps spec you kinda have to give them everything even if it's a tradeoff (like DHs do have to tradeoff their ST for more AOE etc)

and assa isnt super niche anymore, as i said it has adequate AOE, and it can opt into even more with legendaries
and as said, FoK is getting a 40% dmg buff

and if there is a spec that can do everything well without any sacrifice, i'd rather them being nerfed in one aspect or another, than blizzard making it an arms race between which spec can do more things better

[ymirsson]

i know exactly what you mean ,but having a weakness, is not shitty design

It would be a fine concept, but WoW dropped that ball long ago. Also, i don't think assassinations percieved advantage in ST does justice to the infuriating AE design, reliant on a single RNG occurence.

And what about the specs that intermittently rule both ST and AE scenarios? like DPS warriors often do?

[shaunika123]

It would be a fine concept, but WoW dropped that ball long ago. Also, i don't think assassinations percieved advantage in ST does justice to the infuriating AE design, reliant on a single RNG occurence.

And what about the specs that intermittently rule both ST and AE scenarios? like DPS warriors often do?

but poison bomb isnt the only AOE they can do tho
deadly poison and FoK do a lot of damage if stuff doesnt die in 5 seconds.

as i said our brust AOE sucks, unless we instaproc

but our sustained aoe is decent, and if stuff doesnt die in 5 seconds we got enough time to cast enough finishers to consistently proc poison bomb at a reasonable rate.
if you want burst aoe you can just equip the cloak, as i said, which will be 40% more powerful come next patch btw

and just because one thing's OP doesnt mean we should be too
if warriors are too good then nerf them, or make their ST/AOE more of a tradeoff

[ymirsson]

It wasnt about whether Warrior's numbers are too high or not, but that this design space is used, being good at AE and ST.
If i want to equipt the cloak, bad luck, i dont have it yet. This dicussion would be moot for Legion if PB was a CD. I'd gladly trade Vendetta for it.

[Deleted]

and anyway it's not like assa is really underperforming, im still pulling 1mil overall dps in mythic+ and stuff, our AOE is good enough that our ST balances it out, the only thing we lack is sudden burst AOE but our sustained AOE isnt bad at all.
hell if we really need burst AOE we can go shoulders+cloak and have that too, remember FoK is getting a pretty big buff in 7.2.5

Our AOE is only good enough if you have the Legendary Shoulders (I'm talking high Mythic Plus here, since realistically current raid encounters only have at most 3 targets), if you don't you horribly underperform compared to other classes.

And I have 9 Legendaries FYI, guess which one is the last... yes the shoulders. The absolute BIS for my class is the one that hasn't dropped after months of farming weekly all raids until Mythic, which puts me far behind other Sin Rogues in M+ and somewhat behind in Raids.

A design that forces you to own a particular Legendary to compete is bad.

Anyways my 2c.