Putin vows military response if Sweden joins NATO

[Deleted]

Mushats u urself admit u being in bed started with nato first before Russian trainings, u admitted that YOU STARTED THIS but somehow it's not ur fault? You don't understand basic cause n effect? Go back to school n stop qq

If Russia ever invades its because ur soon a caliphate performing hostile actions. U dhould be more concerned about those who flood eu borders n merkel n ur cuck government allowing it to happen. Instead u hold refugees welcome signs n qq about russia..

[Slant]

And so it begins.

I'm sure, in true fascist style, Finland will just get taken along with Sweden. Of course Ukraine is the Poland of these Russian fascists, so it will be gobbled up as well. All while the Chamberlains and Manchurian Candidates around the world look away, that is until they have no choice but to look.

Where are all the Churchills, I wonder?

Last time Russia tried to grab Finland, they got a rather bloody nose. No, they won't try that again.

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I believe you are drastically understating the importance of Crimea because you're looking at it from an American v Russian perspective, in which the black sea naval power is largely useless. Crimea is one of the single largest focuses in Russian military development, and has been significantly expanded in recent years. Even if you were right and at the end of the day such expansions are moot, it is obviously important to them because that is where the money is going.

That's because it is. Turkey holds the keys to the black sea. And that's the main reason they're in NATO. And as long as they're in NATO, those black sea naval forces are a waste of money. Russia might as well just hire three fisherboats and have the same strategic net worth out of them. Even an elementary school class would be able to hold the Bosporus against whatever Russia sends against it. It literally is the most favourable choke point that you will find on any map of this planet. Turkey doesn't even need a navy to defend it. All they need to do is line up tanks on both shorelines and just... shoot fish in the literal barrel until the seaway is blocked with wrecks.

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Looks like someone looked at wikipedia n think he's an expert

Those "chinese" regions lost were populated by turkish n mongol peoples like the Manchu in the north-east. China didn't loose any ethnic Han territories so these "claims" of yours are a joke and China wouldn't risk nuclear war over them. Also those minorities would run a much larger risk to be assimilated by the Han so no way do they want to join China. But continue plz entertain us with ur ignorance.

Clearly, you have never spoken to a Chinese if you think that. China is the big unknown. And China's ideology is to absolutely unite everything they consider "China" under their flag. At pretty much high costs, too. China isn't expansionist by nature, they're leaning on the isolationist, if anything. Have done so for millennia. But never underestimate their resolve to unite what they consider China. That's why Taiwan is the hot spot that it is. And Tibet. And all the other regions. The US had a preview of what happens if China feels threatened in the Korean war. They didn't even cross the border, but it provoked such a violent reaction from China that it pushed the US back to the coast even.

No, I think Skroe's got it right and you're the one not having a clue about China.

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@Skroe Keep dreaming your sweet neocon dreams, but don't forget, Russia has WMD, and if China or anyone else so much as thinks about annexing territories, they will be turned to ash, and considering that China has relatively small landmass but high population density, fewer bombs will be needed to achieve maximum efficiency.

Also, since we have so many "experts" here that just parrot whatever b/s their MSM regurgitates into them here's something to consider - Immigration to Russia
Even if we take into consideration that the data isn't accurate, let's add some 700,000 sneaky Chinese, so that we have ~1m Chinese in Russia. 1m? It's nothing! Considering this figure would probably be spread across all country, not just in Far East, we see that the problem of "Chinese putting migrant pressure on Russia" is non-existent, but of course, for fake news like MSM everything bad that happens in Russia is truth, and everything good - it's a state sponsored propaganda.

If nuclear weapons are the only thing keeping other countries from annexing your territories, then your position must be weak as fuck to begin with. Btw, way to kill any discussion. But I guess it's better than being told Russia sucks balls at basically anything these days.

[Muzjhath]

Mushats u urself admit u being in bed started with nato first before Russian trainings, u admitted that YOU STARTED THIS but somehow it's not ur fault? You don't understand basic cause n effect? Go back to school n stop qq

If Russia ever invades its because ur soon a caliphate performing hostile actions. U dhould be more concerned about those who flood eu borders n merkel n ur cuck government allowing it to happen. Instead u hold refugees welcome signs n qq about russia..

We were "in bed" with NATO because of Soviet aggression. We just didn't quit that relationship as it was beneficial to us due to Sweden being a quite major (per capita) arms manufacturer and dealer. And continuing those ties were better for all other interests in Sweden than ending them when the cold war ended. Keeping an alliance together is better than letting it splinter and potential conflicts between former friends springing up when that table for discussion goes away. (One reason NATO stayed together post cold war, fyi).
So no, we didn't start this. Sweden had historically been neutral (on paper far more than in fact) since the end of the Napoleonic Wars. We had shown some support, at times been muscled in to do things we maybe didn't want to stay out of wars (see letting Nazi Germany use our railways). But by and large taking no sides. What changed that? Soviet aggression after (and during) WW II.

So, if anything, it is originally Russian aggression that pushed Sweden out of neutrality into NATO. Yet Russian aggression against a Sweden friendly with the west (to where most of our exports go, and where a lot of our imports come from (aside from lumber for IKEA)). Russian aggression is our fault because Sweden is friendly with people who've proven to be our friends, that we became friends with because of Russian aggression (Even if said Russian aggression didn't call itself Russia at the time).

Yeah, learn some fucking history, get some realpolitik into your thinking (something LOTS of fucking Swedes need to. Including our foreign minister who's a fucking moron imo) and realize that Sweden is acting closer with NATO now than 10 years ago because of Russian aggression. Had Russia not done their stupid Gotland flybys the group of the Swedish general population that wanted to be part of NATO would have stayed the same, or shrunk. Instead because of Russian actions it is growing. Yet it's our fault. Cry me a fucking river and grow the fuck up and accept that it was a stupid strategic mistake that backfired almost as hard as it could (almost, as we didn't outright change our letterhead yet).

As for the caliphate bullshit, about 6% of our population are "muslim", out of those maybe half to a third actually practice Islam. Out of people born in Sweden I'd put money on a minority actually become religious. Biggest active religious group in the country are still Christian. Even if all religions are shrinking in Sweden as we (generally) have the support networks that displace religious necessities.

[TwistedSkull]

Wow the Kremlin must be really well funded.

[The Emperor]

If nuclear weapons are the only thing keeping other countries from annexing your territories, then your position must be weak as fuck to begin with. Btw, way to kill any discussion. But I guess it's better than being told Russia sucks balls at basically anything these days.

Driveby comment and zero understanding of subject. Again, there is nothing to talk to you if you fail to see things from perspective. When USSR was strong NATO promised it wouldn't enlarge and USSR gave greenlight to Germany unification(now mister rym here is a good example of how thankful they were - not at all.) then when USSR was on its deathbed NATO said that they havent got a say in who joins and who doesnt, and USSR should really mind its business. I think threatening nuclear anihilation is the only option Russia has left to prevent Western crablouse from biting too deep.
As for the last part, well, maybe Russia isn't as powerful as it used to be, but at least it still has its pride not like backwater baltic states or wherever the hell you are from.

[Allybeboba]

Czar Trump won't let it happen. If anything, he'll help Russia take Finland and Sweden, he'll say they're enemies of democracy and that they were a threat, and that it's best our great allies in Russia manage those countries to ensure peace. If you haven't noticed he's already been going nuts about how Sweden is supposedly falling apart, overtaken by Muslims, ruled by crime (lmao)...the dude's a lunatic but he's patiently building rhetoric to help give Sweden and Finland to his boss Putin.

Funny you call him Czar when the prior administration had over 20 'Czars' at one point.

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Wow the Kremlin must be really well funded.

From the tourist I bet.

[Shalcker]

Not to turn it into a Ulmita-attracting nuclear warboner fest, but Russia has a serious problem with rocketry at the moment.

You see, the people who built the USSRs, and then Russia's rockets (for space and nuclear) largely retired a decade ago. Their successors? They aren't as skilled as their predecessors. A huge amount of institutional know-how was lost. As a result, rockets are blowing up left and right due to poor quality control or incorrect manufacturing.

Hmm, so how far is your PGS program right now?

Because our Zircon hypersonic missile is already undergoing tests, year ahead of schedule...

Looking at current PGS program state... hmm, you have years, if not decades of catching up to do...

[Gimlix]

What's the point of NATO again? Trillions of dollars spent for what? To cower in fear from few terrorists with AK-47s?

You don't get it. We have Germany in the NATO.
You know how strong the real German Reich can be! Don't make them mad!

[Haven]

You don't get it. We have Germany in the NATO.
You know how strong the real German Reich can be! Don't make them mad!

Last time it ended with red flag flying over Reichstag.

[Gimlix]

Last time it ended with red flag flying over Reichstag.

Last time it ended with American, England, Russia, France and alot of rebels, attacking the germans.
It took the world powers to take Germany down.

Now germany alone has so many strong allies. Russia HAS to bow down to us.

[Deleted]

We were "in bed" with NATO because of Soviet aggression. We just didn't quit that relationship as it was beneficial to us due to Sweden being a quite major (per capita) arms manufacturer and dealer. And continuing those ties were better for all other interests in Sweden than ending them when the cold war ended. Keeping an alliance together is better than letting it splinter and potential conflicts between former friends springing up when that table for discussion goes away. (One reason NATO stayed together post cold war, fyi).
So no, we didn't start this. Sweden had historically been neutral (on paper far more than in fact) since the end of the Napoleonic Wars. We had shown some support, at times been muscled in to do things we maybe didn't want to stay out of wars (see letting Nazi Germany use our railways). But by and large taking no sides. What changed that? Soviet aggression after (and during) WW II.

So, if anything, it is originally Russian aggression that pushed Sweden out of neutrality into NATO. Yet Russian aggression against a Sweden friendly with the west (to where most of our exports go, and where a lot of our imports come from (aside from lumber for IKEA)). Russian aggression is our fault because Sweden is friendly with people who've proven to be our friends, that we became friends with because of Russian aggression (Even if said Russian aggression didn't call itself Russia at the time).

Yeah, learn some fucking history, get some realpolitik into your thinking (something LOTS of fucking Swedes need to. Including our foreign minister who's a fucking moron imo) and realize that Sweden is acting closer with NATO now than 10 years ago because of Russian aggression. Had Russia not done their stupid Gotland flybys the group of the Swedish general population that wanted to be part of NATO would have stayed the same, or shrunk. Instead because of Russian actions it is growing. Yet it's our fault. Cry me a fucking river and grow the fuck up and accept that it was a stupid strategic mistake that backfired almost as hard as it could (almost, as we didn't outright change our letterhead yet).

As for the caliphate bullshit, about 6% of our population are "muslim", out of those maybe half to a third actually practice Islam. Out of people born in Sweden I'd put money on a minority actually become religious. Biggest active religious group in the country are still Christian. Even if all religions are shrinking in Sweden as we (generally) have the support networks that displace religious necessities.

So it's business with nato that is anti-Russia YET u expect no reaction because u help surroundment of Russia? What part of cause n effect don't u get? U want to be treated as if you were not in bed with nato, basically ur angry that Russia isn't ignoring reality? Boy, NOTHING beats western ignorance n delusional bullshit!

Lol the Chinese, they don't want nuclear war, they can be as butt-hurt as they please. Nobody cares cuz nothing will happen.

Btw I'm not Russian

[Felya]

Last time it ended with red flag flying over Reichstag.

While Russians were eating cardboard in Leningrad. Something that wouldn't have happened, if Russia wasn't tricked by Hitler. How did that none aggressive pact work out? So great, that you needed an iron curtain out of fear it would happen again?

Do remember... every claim of victory from WW2, is tainted by Stalin's paranoia handcuffing Russia for decades. US took advantage of it and exploited the shit out of ruined Europe and isolationist Russia. That's what makes Trump so great for Russia. It finally hinders American power over the world, that isolated Russia and made America the only superpower remaining.

[Deleted]

Because our Zircon hypersonic missile is already undergoing tests, year ahead of schedule...

Russia is great on making many amazing project plans and cansel them to..... somtime they mange to build a prototype but then it stall, way should we believe this project can be implemented? And not fissel out like the Angara rocket becuse of cost...

[Shalcker]

While Russians were eating cardboard in Leningrad. Something that wouldn't have happened, if Russia wasn't tricked by Hitler. How did that none aggressive pact work out? So great, that you needed an iron curtain out of fear it would happen again?

Worked out pretty great, Hitler attacked France and Britain first while USSR was cooperating with Germans in various areas.

Only Hitler botched "Battle of Britain" and decided he was better off trying Russian side next; oh well, wouldn't be the first time Russia cooperated with someone who is completely incompetent and suffered for it (see Ukraine now as another example).

Do remember... every claim of victory from WW2, is tainted by Stalin's paranoia handcuffing Russia for decades. US took advantage of it and exploited the shit out of ruined Europe and isolationist Russia.

As did USSR; who wasn't "isolationist" at all (nor does Russia today). Both USSR and USA shaped the world order as it stands now, and Russia still has fruits of that shaping, like Security Council Veto Power.

[Deleted]

While Russians were eating cardboard in Leningrad. Something that wouldn't have happened, if Russia wasn't tricked by Hitler. How did that none aggressive pact work out? So great, that you needed an iron curtain out of fear it would happen again?

Do remember... every claim of victory from WW2, is tainted by Stalin's paranoia handcuffing Russia for decades. US took advantage of it and exploited the shit out of ruined Europe and isolationist Russia. That's what makes Trump so great for Russia. It finally hinders American power over the world, that isolated Russia and made America the only superpower remaining.

Ur saying trump has cut economic ties to europe? Oookay..

[Muzjhath]

So it's business with nato that is anti-Russia YET u expect no reaction because u help surroundment of Russia? What part of cause n effect don't u get? U want to be treated as if you were not in bed with nato, basically ur angry that Russia isn't ignoring reality? Boy, NOTHING beats western ignorance n delusional bullshit!

Lol the Chinese, they don't want nuclear war, they can be as butt-hurt as they please. Nobody cares cuz nothing will happen.

You missed my point. My point was that concerning military alliances support for NATO was shrinking in Sweden. Until Russian actions changed that. From a Russian PoV maybe what you say is true. But that's short-sighted and uneducated based on the Swedish population then. Never posturing aggressively against our territorial borders would have served a policy of Russia not getting surrounded by NATO better. Along with being friendly, trying to get trade, offering defense insurances, etc.
Stuff like that would have made support for NATO and the west, militarily, shrink in Sweden. Would have made the NATO position of Sweden worse as the plurality that supported NATO would shrink and the dislike of NATO would probably become a majority again.

Instead acts by Russia has made it so that instead of living on the same street as NATO, with Russia across town. With a majority people in Sweden wanting to move to a different street than either. Now? Now more people than ever in Sweden want to move in with NATO.

I'm speaking about the general population here, not politicians.

Which is why I find your arguments so stupid. Even if I can see the thinking and empathy behind them. The thinking is wrong in that it misjudged temperaments inside of Sweden and acted in a way that worked against purpose. If the purpose was to intimidate us to not join NATO as if we joined NATO it'd get worse for us. We're not in NATO right now and Russia dares to poke deep inside our borders. Clearly we need the defense actually being in NATO would give us.
Italics is the Swedish rational post Russian aggressive flybys with potentially nuclear armed air force planes.

You say that the Russian rational was: Sweden is really friendly with NATO, we should posture against them and say we really don't want them to join NATO and if they do our threats might become a reality!
And if that's the case, Russia misplayed their hand as hard as it could. We didn't go "Oh shit have to distance our self from NATO!" We went "Crap, we need to get closer to NATO as Russia doesn't respect our borders"
As historically Sweden and Russia have not been friends exactly, and the past 100 years Russia was a big enemy of western Europe. (Remember, the Nazi was the better of the two evils until Hitler overstepped his bounds during the 1930ies. We preferred Hitler to Stalin). And that's with Sweden probably being one of the most Soviet friendly states outside of the union in Europe.

So yeah, you say "Russia is acting like this as our interest is to push Sweden away from NATO as we're threatened by NATO!"
Me, and other Swedes, and NATO people, are saying "Yeah, we understand how you're thinking. However, the way you act is pushing us towards NATO harder than ever before and you've only got those actions to blame for it as before said actions it was moving in the other way".

[Shalcker]

Russia is great on making many amazing project plans and cansel them to.....

It happens with US too! If you would follow the link you would see that they tested hypersonic vehicles, got a few early failures... and then budget for it evaporated.

They have no successful hypersonic missiles, even as prototypes.

somtime they mange to build a prototype but then it stall, way should we believe this project can be implemented?

Because it is moving to testing ahead of schedule, duh. That indicates either increased interest (and funding) or some kind of breakthrough in the process.

And not fissel out like the Angara rocket becuse of cost...

Angara's point isn't as much cost as non-Baiconur launch (namely Vostochniy).

[Slant]

Driveby comment and zero understanding of subject. Again, there is nothing to talk to you if you fail to see things from perspective. When USSR was strong NATO promised it wouldn't enlarge and USSR gave greenlight to Germany unification(now mister rym here is a good example of how thankful they were - not at all.) then when USSR was on its deathbed NATO said that they havent got a say in who joins and who doesnt, and USSR should really mind its business. I think threatening nuclear anihilation is the only option Russia has left to prevent Western crablouse from biting too deep.
As for the last part, well, maybe Russia isn't as powerful as it used to be, but at least it still has its pride not like backwater baltic states or wherever the hell you are from.

I think I understand the subject quite well. Nobody gives a fuck about the USSR anymore. And certainly not about promises made to the USSR that were never put in writing, only discussed behind closed doors and frankly, were not even taken seriously, because at the time they were made, the Warsaw Pact was still a thing and in Gorbachev's and Shevardnadze's own words, an expansion into the Warsaw Pact states was unthinkable even to them. The main discussion point was Germany being in NATO including East Germany. Gorbachev agreed to that. Anything else is none of Russia's business.

Now, there are a couple of things you are glossing over. The USSR fell apart. The Warsaw Pact fell apart. Why? Because those nations hated the Soviet Union and being under Soviet rule. Then Yugoslavia broke apart rather violently. Suddenly you have a lot of nations being afraid of Russia and the specter of revolution or civil war in their countries. And yes, it was the time to tell the USSR to go fuck itself and die. That's how you win a war, even if it's a cold war. And now you want to dictate those countries what they can or cannot join? Newsflash. Russian hegemony is over. Those are sovereign states and Russia has no right to tell them to do or not do anything. Suck it up and deal with it.

Oh, go ahead... threaten with nuclear bullshit. Like anyone's taking that seriously these days. We're discussing global politics here, not your personal nuclear jerk off fantasy. But that's not how you have a discussion. Here, I'll summarize it: "We'll nuke!" - "Go ahead..." - *nukes* - *nukes back* end of story... we've heard that before, it's getting kind of boring. That's not why we talk on this forum.

And Russia won't even use nuclear weapons for Sweden. That's just their typical idiot talk. Like, do you actually think anyone takes Russians seriously these days? Putin touches those nukes and that'll be the end of Russia. He knows that. I'm not talking metaphorically here, I'm talking literally The End of Russia. They have no allies whatsoever. And the whole world pissed off at them. Nope, not even coked up Putin would do that.

Russia can pick up its pride and wave it around as much as they like, but those "backwater baltic states" are more progressive than Russia is already now. The nation that still thinks they can expand with military force and be respected for that is not modern, trust me.

But, great post of yours. Really, absolutely great insight into... nothing, really.

[Deleted]

Muzhash ur saying swedes are incapable of understanding or even care that their country is getting in bed with nato n russia shouldn't react to increase of anti-Russia alliance?

Msybe u should go around town n point a gun at people n if they react u get to say ur scared n need more guns? Sorry Russia cannot do nothing n wait for half-wits to get a clue. Your actions led down this road, no wonder ur becoming a muslim state nobody can draw conclusions or take any responsibility, u like to shift burden to others n tell them to think its ok to live with. Real world isn't like ur delusional country.

Msybe u would have been less inclined to join nato but just because ur not formally part of it didn't stop u to be in there in all but name. U don't practise neutrality n just cuz ur delusional population likes pretend... Russia should pretend even though ur actions increases security threat when another country chips in to Russia's surroundment?

Ur like Americans n gun debate but instead of pistols u want more military n it's not ur fault when u point gun at ur neighbor...
Ur like a redneck strapped with guns wearing a t-shirt "stop gun violence"

Ah I'm wasting time with u, Swedenistan.

[Dezerte]

Threatening with military response if you join a military defense organization is anti-constructive. I don't understand the reasoning, why anyone would think that this would encourage countries to not join NATO. Responding to military threats is exactly why you'd want to join NATO in the first place.