The power level of playable races in Lore

[Ilikegreenfire]

Yes, that's exactly what I am telling you. Ten inches is not "slightly" taller. And stating that they are taller at the apex of their kiss animation is just grasping at straws.

And you still don't get how physics work. The higher up on a vertical surface I jump off from, the further I will propel, not because I have super leg muscles but because more time passes for me to travel before hitting ground. Your example of them leaping off a church very far is the same principle.

A worgen in full plate moves as fast as a horse by running on all fours. Taurens had plainsrunning and the only reason it's not in game now is because they couldn't get the technology to work 12 years ago. Know your history. The artists' initial concept speaks clearly what taurens are capable of. You keep mentioning directional speed like it's an advantage in a fight. If that's the case then why isn't Usain Bolt winning MMA titles?

Not to mention taurens can warstomp to stun people, an act that requires physical assault to accomplish for all other races. A tauren can generate a force so great, that it can travel through the earth and lose energy during the transfer of power, and still manage to stun someone. Worgens may or may not have leg muscles on the level of a horse, I don't really care. I know taurens have ability to generate more force than a horse ever could. Your average worgen isn't going to be wiping the floor with Horde soldiers. In badlands orcs were punching out dragons. When Doomhammer first met trolls he noted that they are bigger and faster than orcs, and can jump onto tree branches in a single bound. And we have taurens performing warstomp.

I also don't give a fuck what class that tauren is in the concept art. It's a tauren wrecking a mech.

This statement shows your bias. You would skew the argument in your favor by comparing taurens to cows and worgens to wolves, knowing that the former is domesticated and the latter is wild. It's as idiotic as comparing taurens to wild bulls while equating worgens to domesticated dogs. We all know that neither the tauren nor worgen are inspired by domesticated animals, so let's act like it. You also ignore that taurens have been flesh shaped by the mogul to be stronger, something that I have brought up before.

When standing strait on their kiss animate the top of their head is 8'1" so the old tweet stands they are 8 feet tall.

The still required lots of strengthen to make the jump, its not like they had a running start. They launched themselves off the side of a building from a stationary position with just their legs. If you try to jump off the side of a vertical cliff no matter how high you won't go more than a few feet off the side no matter how high up you are.

Planesrunning is capable of being done now but they haven't, because they realized it was silly and soft retconed it. Worgen don't have have incredible agility(darkflight) not just directional speed Werewolves aren't humans.

A horse rearing up and stomping the ground is going to stun people too, it happens in real life. and as we have seen a worgen is as strong or stronger than a horse. A worgen will absolutely wipe the floor with goblins forsaken and blood elves. There are different types of trolls, the darkspear are much smaller than the amani.

Runmasters are high teir characters, a gnome runemaster could have wrecked the mech bare handed they are basically monk mage hybrids, were talking about average members of their races.

The pattern that the energy flowing through perfectly-crafted steel creates, the rune of perfect steel is tattooed to the back of a runemaster’s hands, allowing him to deal lethal or nonlethal damage with his unarmed attacks. (He makes the choice each time he attacks).

They were flash shaped sure, Worgen are essentially in the most powerful druid form perminatly. Even tauren go bear form for increased strength and endurence.

[Zulkhan]

Also, if you watch any nature documentaries, claws and fangs don't instantly kill the prey. Most group hunters work together to tire out a prey. A lot of the times the prey doesn't die and until they start eating.

Precisely. As I said previously, the only way to finish it quick would be going for the throat directly, something very hard to achieve against a minotaur-ish creature wielding a giant tree trunk. And bulls, buffalos and the like are not only the most dangerous "prey" a predator have to deal with but require the higher amount of damage, wounds and overall bleeding to eventually tire them up, something lionesses achieve, indeed, by swarming a single one of them in packs and each of them risking her life in the process. Tauren in-game are characterized by a racial buffing their stamina, which enlightens this very aspect.

[Mehrunes]

Ya and the Worgen were still wrecking the forsaken's shit in their home turf, with no weapons no training and no infrastructure, the forsaken had to abduct Lorna and threaten to kill and turn her into forsaken to get Crowly to back down.

Worgen gained any momentum only after 7th Legion landed. Eventually even 7th Legion was dealt with, leaving again just the Worgen. Who weren't an opposition on their own from the get go.

True, but a tauren in bear form is still going to be stronger than he is originally right? Same if he used pack form. All that nature energy and shit.

And Tauren most likely being stronger if they used pack form means their baseline has to be weaker than a completely different race, one that is for sure physically weaker than them, in pack form, because...?

They lept like 50+ feet in an downward ark, and climb vertical walls being 8 boot tall 300+ pound werewolves. Requiring massive physical strength.

And you've got their weight from where?

Make the wolf equal size to the bull and ya lets see.

But Worgen and Tauren aren't of equal size...

If they could easily destroy a group of demons who outnumbered them then they can deal with the taurens. This is not wolf vs bull. The form has the lingering essence of Goldrinn. Worgen is not even a race. It's a curse rooted in nature magic. It's simply a power boost.

And yet Huln turned large sways of demons into sashimi on his own.

Yes, and Forsaken are getting their asses handed to them until player saves the day. It's the player character, not the Forsaken army who turns the tide. When you enter Silverpine, Worgen are at the border of Tirisfal Glades. It's also said and shown numerous times that Crowley and Bloodfang outsmarted the undead on every turn (ambush in the mine, how they have dealt with the Forsaken vanguard in Gilneas, ordering 7th Legion to not use human soldiers, druids posing as ordinary wild bears ambushing Horde forces etc.), and it's basically the player making a save on every front.

Worgen being at the border of Tirisfal means nothing. They used guerrilla warfare and hit and run tactics. What they actually controlled was the north border of the wall and Pyrewood. And Worgen gained momentum only because of the 7th Legion. Once they did, Sylvanas went back to Silverpine to personally lead the war again and completely turned the tide. Everything the player did was on her orders, following her tactics, in the end outsmarting the Worgen and their allies. And Crowley had nothing to do with the decision to send only the non-human part of the 7th Legion, it was Varian's choice.

Technology
Tier 1 - Gnomes and Goblins - lasers and submarines, planes and robots, all engineered by them.
Tier 2 - Dwarves - build the siege tanks, cannons, rifles, planes etc. They are not as advanced as to build lasers though.
Tier 3 - Draenei - Draenei reverse-engineered some naaru tech, but they're still not so advanced in it yet, in the future they might go to tier 1, but for now they can't build a naaru ship for example.
Tier 4 - Humans, Forsaken, Worgen, Pandaren, Blood elves - Average tier. Basically those that build some machines of war and use rifles made by them. Blood elves have also made arcane constructs, but they are not at the draenei levels due to the constructs being part magic, part technology.
Tier 5 - Night elves, Orcs - both build some engines of war (glaive thrower and demolisher) but not much else besides that. Night elves rely more on their ancients, wisps and magic while orcs rely on goblins and power.
Tier 6 - Trolls and Tauren - The best technology the tauren invented is the elevator. It's not horrible, but not great either. The machines of war of both these races are primitive versions of those of other races. They sometimes use rifles, bot they are not manufactured by them most times.

Forsaken on the same tier as Humans, Worgen, let alone Pandaren (what technology do Pandaren have, multiple types of beer barrels?)? While not the global leaders of engineering aspects, they still have very mobile catapults that spew fire in close quarters, multiple Blight deployment systems, including personal armament of Blight "throwers" and a formidable fleet. Other than the fleet (which more often than not lost to the Forsaken one), humans rely on Dwarves and Goblins for their technology, with their own siege weapons mostly being ballistae (the most basic version out of all races that use those). And Worgen have what, decent architecture?
And when it comes to more scientific aspects, Forsaken are far more advanced thanks to heavy focus on alchemy.

[Friendlyimmolation]

A horse rearing up and stomping the ground is going to stun people too, it happens in real life. and as we have seen a worgen is as strong or stronger than a horse. A worgen will absolutely wipe the floor with goblins forsaken and blood elves. There are different types of trolls, the darkspear are much smaller than the amani.

Please show me these horses physically capable of causing s stunning shock wave, in dealing with horses in my younger years never once have I seen someone stunned by a horse stomping the ground.

They were flash shaped sure, Worgen are essentially in the most powerful druid form perminatly. Even tauren go bear form for increased strength and endurence.

A form that is still weaker than a Tauren. I really can't believe you actually are arguing that worgen are physically stronger than the Tauren.

[HumbleDuck]

Saurfang > the rest

[Zulkhan]

There are different types of trolls, the darkspear are much smaller than the amani.

Which means they aren't as strong as the Amani but arguably even more agile. Headhunters are the standard ranged unit of the Horde army for a reason. Thrall's best scout in WC3 was a Shadow Hunter.

[Clone]

When standing strait on their kiss animate the top of their head is 8'1" so the old tweet stands they are 8 feet tall.

We all know you wanted the lorelogy quote to mean worgens being 8 foot tall hunched. Be host with yourself.

The still required lots of strengthen to make the jump, its not like they had a running start. They launched themselves off the side of a building from a stationary position with just their legs. If you try to jump off the side of a vertical cliff no matter how high you won't go more than a few feet off the side no matter how high up you are.

Let me explain this to you again. If I jump off a building with a forward momentum of 5ft/second, I will have traveled 25ft in 10 seconds by the time I hit the ground. If I do the same while falling for 10 seconds, I will have traveled 50ft by the time I hit the floor. The initial force of the leap doesn't change, a higher surface gives more travel time and therefore longer end distance. This is not a hard concept to grasp.

Planesrunning is capable of being done now but they haven't, because they realized it was silly and soft retconed it. Worgen don't have have incredible agility(darkflight) not just directional speed Werewolves aren't humans.

Source. Otherwise this is just conjecture.

A horse rearing up and stomping the ground is going to stun people too, it happens in real life. and as we have seen a worgen is as strong or stronger than a horse. A worgen will absolutely wipe the floor with goblins forsaken and blood elves. There are different types of trolls, the darkspear are much smaller than the amani.

This goes beyond conjecture and into the territory of willful ignorance. Horses have never ever physically stunned people by rearing up and stomping the ground. The Darkspear are also the same build as the Amani.

Runmasters are high teir characters, a gnome runemaster could have wrecked the mech bare handed they are basically monk mage hybrids, were talking about average members of their races.

Conojecture. They are about as high level as a warrior.

They were flash shaped sure, Worgen are essentially in the most powerful druid form perminatly. Even tauren go bear form for increased strength and endurence.

So why do you leave out the flesh shaped part when comparing them to the worgen curse, was it intentional to make worgens look stronger? And let me ask you this, why do worgen druids go into bear for for increased strength and endurance if they are in the most powerful form already? Why do they go into cat form for increased speed and agility? Or is it because the worgen form is not the strongest or the fastest? Come on man, your bias is showing.

[Laerrus]

How come the belfs are not on the same level as the nelfs? or at least more powerful than human/orcs?

Probably because they are his favorite classes, lol.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Please show me these horses physically capable of causing s stunning shock wave, in dealing with horses in my younger years never once have I seen someone stunned by a horse stomping the ground.




A form that is still weaker than a Tauren. I really can't believe you actually are arguing that worgen are physically stronger than the Tauren.

Pretty sure tauren aren't actually sending out a shock wave with warstomp either otherwise it would deal damage
Stun

astonish or shock (someone) so that they are temporarily unable to react.

Seeing a rearing horse, or rearing tauren would be pretty shocking, you'de want to avoid the hooves, both would crack the ground when smashing down. the only one would actually send out shockwaves, aka hurt you would be highteir tauren warriors, as they have titan magic shit or whatever on.

You have obviously never seen a big pissed off stallion rear up nexy to its handlesers, that stuns everybody for quite a bit.

If druid forms are weaker than base tauren why would they ever use them then? I cant beleive you are arguing the Strongest druid form the the strongest druid on the planet couldn't control is weaker than your average tauren.

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Which means they aren't as strong as the Amani but arguably even more agile. Headhunters are the standard ranged unit of the Horde army for a reason. Thrall's best scout in WC3 was a Shadow Hunter.

Ya, hence they wont be going toe to toe with a Worgen warrior.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Pretty sure tauren aren't actually sending out a shock wave with warstomp either otherwise it would deal damage
Stun

love that scrambling.

astonish or shock (someone) so that they are temporarily unable to react.

The tauren war-stomp is physically stunning someone. its not flabbergasting anyone.

If druid forms are weaker than base tauren why would they ever use them then? I cant beleive you are arguing the Strongest druid form the the strongest druid on the planet couldn't control is weaker than your average tauren.

That is what we are arguing, becuse other than your personal fantasy nothing has ever shown worgen to be stronger than Tauren.

Ya, hence they wont be going toe to toe with a Worgen warrior.

you know except for every time orcs and tauren and trolls have gone toe to toe with any alliance race.

So other than your fantasy, where the hell have you gotten it in your head that worgen are the strongest thing out there, unstoppable by any Horde warrior?

[Clone]

Pretty sure tauren aren't actually sending out a shock wave with warstomp either otherwise it would deal damage
Stun


Seeing a rearing horse, or rearing tauren would be pretty shocking, you'de want to avoid the hooves, both would crack the ground when smashing down. the only one would actually send out shockwaves, aka hurt you would be highteir tauren warriors, as they have titan magic shit or whatever on.

You have obviously never seen a big pissed off stallion rear up nexy to its handlesers, that stuns everybody for quite a bit.

If druid forms are weaker than base tauren why would they ever use them then? I cant beleive you are arguing the Strongest druid form the the strongest druid on the planet couldn't control is weaker than your average tauren.

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Ya, hence they wont be going toe to toe with a Worgen warrior.

You are reaching. Warstomp has always sent out shockwaves in its first introduction.

And no, horses don't physically stun people by rearing up. Stop making up shit.

The tauren chieftain version of warstomp also deals damage, but that's besides the point.
http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/u...hieftain.shtml

[Ilikegreenfire]

We all know you wanted the lorelogy quote to mean worgens being 8 foot tall hunched. Be host with yourself.

Let me explain this to you again. If I jump off a building with a forward momentum of 5ft/second, I will have traveled 25ft in 10 seconds by the time I hit the ground. If I do the same while falling for 10 seconds, I will have traveled 50ft by the time I hit the floor. The initial force of the leap doesn't change, a higher surface gives more travel time and therefore longer end distance. This is not a hard concept to grasp.

Source. Otherwise this is just conjecture.

This goes beyond conjecture and into the territory of willful ignorance. Horses have never ever physically stunned people by rearing up and stomping the ground. The Darkspear are also the same build as the Amani.

Conojecture. They are about as high level as a warrior.

So why do you leave out the flesh shaped part when comparing them to the worgen curse, was it intentional to make worgens look stronger? And let me ask you this, why do worgen druids go into bear for for increased strength and endurance if they are in the most powerful form already? Why do they go into cat form for increased speed and agility? Or is it because the worgen form is not the strongest or the fastest? Come on man, your bias is showing.

Blizzard mea sure worgen height from multiple diffrent positions fully steached they are slightly over eight feet othing has changed, just where they make the measurements.

IM not disagreeing with physics I'm trying to get you to understand the strength needed for such a jum in the fist place.

Like I said earlyer pretty sure warstomp isn't an actual physical shockwave just shock and awe same thing a rearing horse does. Making actuial shock waves with your body is a high teir warrior titan magic thing.

Forest trolls and the Darkspear are compleatly diffrent in build, the Amani are like twice or if not more in size, google it.

We're are talking about average members of races, high teir warriors have some source of titan magic and can compete with deathknights and the like, they would be equal with a runemaster. Your average Joe bluffwatcher would get his shit wrecked. We are talking about average Joe members bot eliete heros with magic.

Their base pack form nature magic bleeds in heavly into the other forms enhanceing them 1+1=2. Tauren are strong but are not infused with nature magic in thir base form.0+1=1

[Friendlyimmolation]

Like I said earlyer pretty sure warstomp isn't an actual physical shockwave just shock and awe same thing a rearing horse does. Making actuial shock waves with your body is a high teir warrior titan magic thing.

So you think a twelve foot tall magically altered bull creature can't create a shockwave, but a diluted worgen curse thrown on a human is unstoppable?

Forest trolls and the Darkspear are compleatly diffrent in build, the Amani are like twice or if not more in size, google it.

the Dark spear are capable of going berserk and growing insane muscle mass, ever play WC3?

We're are talking about average members of races, high teir warriors have some source of titan magic and can compete with deathknights and the like, they would be equal with a runemaster. Your average Joe bluffwatcher would get his shit wrecked. We are talking about average Joe members bot eliete heros with magic.

you think the average worgen can beat a average Tauren? The only way a worgen could manage to take down a tauren without getting destroyed is if the worgen was above average.

Their base pack form nature magic bleeds in heavly into the other forms enhanceing them 1+1=2. Tauren are strong but are not infused with nature magic in thir base form.0+1=1

Such incredibly awful reasoning based off your own bias.

Worgen at their base are human, a race that could be crushed in one hand by a Tauren. The worgen curse, diluted from what it once was, is going to make them strong, and probably at the level of an orc, its not going to make them as strong as a average Tauren.

Also since you seem to have fucking forgot it again, Tauren are infused with magic too.

[Clone]

IM not disagreeing with physics I'm trying to get you to understand the strength needed for such a jum in the fist place.

I am telling you that the strength needed for such a jump is very little because physics takes care of the rest.

Like I said earlyer pretty sure warstomp isn't an actual physical shockwave just shock and awe same thing a rearing horse does. Making actuial shock waves with your body is a high teir warrior titan magic thing.

You are wrong then. At no point in the lore has it ever indicated that warstomp doesn't create actual shockwave, it's never been indicated that it's mere shock and awe. In fact, in the now non-canon RPG books warstomp was described as a tauren stomping the ground so hard, the spirtis rush out from the earth out of fear and stunning the surrounding people as a side effect. The tauren chieftain version of warstomp also deals damage.

Forest trolls and the Darkspear are compleatly diffrent in build, the Amani are like twice or if not more in size, google it.

No, they have the same build. Instead of telling me to google it why don't you log into WoW and take a look yourself? Go look at the average jungle troll and forest troll mobs. If you are talking about the muscular berserker trolls, the Darkspear have them too.
http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/u...erserker.shtml

Their base pack form nature magic bleeds in heavly into the other forms enhanceing them 1+1=2. Tauren are strong but are not infused with nature magic in thir base form.0+1=1

This logic is born of your own personal bias. Infused with nature magic or not is meaningless if it's still weaker. Also, you don't have any real proof that worgens are infused with magic. The curse could very well be just a physical enhancement. Your math formula also ingnores other parts that make up the sum.

[Arrashi]

People also seem to forget that for in-game purposes tauren are shrunk since if they were as big as they are in lore, they would be unplayable (remember UC doors anyone ?)

[Friendlyimmolation]

People also seem to forget that for in-game purposes tauren are shrunk since if they were as big as they are in lore, they would be unplayable (remember UC doors anyone ?)

never forgive never forget.

[Clone]

I actually prefer the in game size.

[Zulkhan]

Ya, hence they wont be going toe to toe with a Worgen warrior.

Except both Shadow Hunters and Headhunters are trained to be efficient in melee as well. Headhunters can simply turn their normally thrown spears into polearms, which coupled with their Berserking pretty much cause them to become stronger than average orc warriors, albeit for an arguably limited amount of time (during the very peak of the battle most likely). If you visit the Valley of Spirits in Orgrimmar, you'll see how a bunch of novice Headhunters are around both the Hunter and the Warrior trainer.

And honestly, I wouldn't put all my money on the Worgen if he decides to fight like a beast against a skilled Troll warrior using actual weapons. Trolls may regenerate non-lethal wounds caused by fangs and claws, Worgen can't regenerate an head severed by something like this or this.

[Clone]

Trolls can regrow entire limbs.

[Ilikegreenfire]

You are reaching. Warstomp has always sent out shockwaves in its first introduction.

And no, horses don't physically stun people by rearing up. Stop making up shit.

The tauren chieftain version of warstomp also deals damage, but that's besides the point.
http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/u...hieftain.shtml

It's a shock and awe thing, thunderclap is an actual shockwave more like what you are talking about. If it sends a out an actual shockwave that can stun you it will physically hurt you not leave you undamaged. It's physically impossible to be stunned by a shock wave and not be hurt.

I never said horses physicaly stun people by rearing, they do it by shocking people who freak out and try not to get kicked in the face. Similar to warstomp. your trying to avoid a tauren crushing your foot, if it was a true shockwave you would be hurt.

Tauren Chieften arnt regular tauren, they are high teir warriors like warrior players, their warstomp is similar to thunderclap, they have an extra source of power that all higher teir warriors have, we are talking about regular averge foot soldiers of each race.

Besides all this Rember back in the Barrens when doING the hunting quests, there is a nice bit of quest text where they tell you a zhevra can knock a tauren on its haunches with a kick. We know a worgen is atleast as strong as a horse hence a worgen can do the same thing.