"Pandaren have been in the game since Warcraft 3".... ?

[Aleksej89]

I dont know how a 150kg bear can be too soft and non-threating to anyone.

Yea sure it has cute black/white fur and rolls around like a fat ball, but try threatening one or its babies and you will see how "soft" a bear is.

[Gadzooks]

So whenever a constructive discussion about Blizzard's motives for MoP/creation of Pandaren as a playable race or the thought that Pandaren are too "soft" for Warcraft, the first thing I always hear as a response is something along the lines of "Pandaren/MoP isn't random/cartoony/soft, they have been in the game since WC3."

How exactly is this a popular response?

WC3 wasn't centered around pandas. Yes Pandas were in WC3 but so what?

The race was originally announced as an Aprils fools joke for WC3. They also had no real lore behind them, they were just one of the many random things put in the game to give it it's flavor.

WC3 Frozen throne also had Sasquatchs, flying sheep and pengiuns roaming some of the maps so you'd probably be ok with them making a bigfoot sighting expansion, flying sheep expansion or a Surf's up expansion?

If they do it creatively and in a way that makes the game fun to play across an expansion, sure, why not?

Why do you act like Pandarin are a personal insult? You act like a snubbed girlfriend, trying to find reasons why your ex shouldn't be with the new girlfriend. Blizzard chose to take a new direction for an expansion, what, do you think you deserved something different? Are you one of those silly try hard gamers that wraps all of their self esteem around a video game, and you can't be the manly man because of pandas?

There's a moment in life, when people realize they're being childish and silly, and move on. Clearly, this moment has not happened for you.

[Ielenia]

Some of those aren't "pre mop development" sources. You must not know that development for an expansion happens far before it is announced. Mainly refering the the Katricia quite.

The rest do not show intentions of Blizzard creating Pandaren lore. Random characters "Mentioning" Pandaren along with the many other random quotes you can find in the game are not proof to anything.

There are random characters throughout the game that mention references to unicorns, unknown pimples of the side of a dwarf's face and Dinosoaurs. Does that mean Blizzard intends to create unicorn, pimples and Dinosaur lore too?

Three of them are: you have Chen's empty keg that you could find since the game's inception, which confirmed the existence of Pandaren; you had the little kid who wanders around Stormwind with his friend, who mentions pandaren; and you have the item you could loot from Wrath's fishing daily bag that was named 'fantasy picture' and its icon was a pandaren face. There you have it. At least three Pandaren mentions prior to MoP's development. Four, counting Chen Stormstout's contribution to the founding of Orgrimmar, back in Warcraft 3.

[Benomatic]

Well, we shouldn't have had Warlords of Dreanor, but for different reasons :Pw

I blame the titans

[Ielenia]

You're being generous in depicting the dead horse as still looking like a horse. I imagine nowadays it'd look like beaten bloody paste than a horse.

[HitRefresh]

I thought they did a good job integrating them into WoW.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, it was Samwise's thing (he's the art director at Blizzard after all)

I just have to say he hasn't been art director for WoW for pretty much ever, he left for the StarCraft 2 team and then moved on to Heroes of the Storm. The decision to add Pandaren as a race had nothing to do with him, even during Burning Crusade, and it was actually a surprise to him to see it in the cinematic.

[FelPlague]

So whenever a constructive discussion about Blizzard's motives for MoP/creation of Pandaren as a playable race or the thought that Pandaren are too "soft" for Warcraft, the first thing I always hear as a response is something along the lines of "Pandaren/MoP isn't random/cartoony/soft, they have been in the game since WC3."

How exactly is this a popular response?

WC3 wasn't centered around pandas. Yes Pandas were in WC3 but so what?

The race was originally announced as an Aprils fools joke for WC3. They also had no real lore behind them, they were just one of the many random things put in the game to give it it's flavor.

WC3 Frozen throne also had Sasquatchs, flying sheep and pengiuns roaming some of the maps so you'd probably be ok with them making a bigfoot sighting expansion, flying sheep expansion or a Surf's up expansion?

1. they were in the game for warcraft, so they were not just "pulled from their asses" they were a concept, not huge, but they were still a thing, that is the reason.
2. the race was announced as an April fools day joke, and people loved it, begging for it to be real, so much as to every expansion people were wondering if they were going to be the new race, in cata when they were easing up to it a bunch of halloween masks got datamined, those being worgen and goblin, but also murloc, ogre, and panda, all races people have been begging for
3. pandas were going to be in burning crusade, but were canceled as they had no reason to go to outland, idk if you remember but when the game was announced they had no race for alliance, only showing off the blood elves, there was naga, murloc, and pandaren all as choices, and they decided to go for draenei instead
4. the theme was also not pulled from their asses, like alot of the other games lore and scenery, it is from a place, the Norse, Lovecraft, etc, with pandaria being japan and china based


it is their choice of what they add, pandaren were a thing in warcraft since 3, and yes they had no lore other then being drunks who love to cook and drink and are very cheerful, but that is the same with ANYTHING blizzard has to give them lore, has to invent lore for them, and with that the pandaren were one.

they invent the lore, it has to come in at somepoint, i mean the draenei bassicly came from no where did they not?

[MechaCThun]

Chen Stormstout is a Pandaren Brewmaster hero that appears in the "Founding of Durotar" campaign where you help him find brews. This campaign is canon to the story. While he doesn't state he hails from the land of Pandaria, him being a pandaren and appearing in the campaign establishes the existence of pandarens in Warcraft III.

EDIT: I'm actually 98% sure "Founding of Durotar" is canon, and even the official description for the "Pandaren Brewmaster" neutral hero mentions the hail from Pandaria.

/thread

[Deleted]

I recently saw a post from Blizzard about Chromie and going back in time or something. Have I gone with her? Has MoP just been announced?

HELLO people from the past, I come from the future! I bring news, the next expansions after MoP will be Warlords of Draenor, focusing on a Draenor from an alternate universe, and Legion, focusing on the Legion invasion of the Broken Isles! Which are bigger and filled with black elves. Enjoy your knowledge of the future!

Now, let us be a bit serious. Yes, there were flying sheep and sasquatch and whatever in Warcraft 3. And yes, I think Pandaria was not really handled well, but not because it had pandaren, but rather because most of it felt like a bad Hollywood movie stereotype about asian people.
But it's stupid to say that pandaren were not at least somewhat visible in Warcraft 3. Chen was basically a main character in the Horde campaign in Frozen Throne.
You can't say that about the flying sheep. As for the sasquatch, we actually have them. We fight one every Christmas to save Metzen the reindeer for years. They're just somewhat bulky-er now.

So, again, I think that HOW they took on Pandaria was bad. The fact however that they had pandaren, that was not the major problem. But let's put your argument taking another race, furbolgs. Would I be ok with a furbolg based expansion? If it made sense, yes. With the pandaren they focused too much on their culture and took too many refferences from bad Hollywood movies, which, to me, kind of ruined part of the experience. And their models don't fit much, and females have one face and and. But the fact that pandaren exist is not the problem in itself.

[Alvito]

Who cares, MoP had best gameplay and raids.

It did have HoF the worst raid of all. The others were mostly good or great, but that pile of shit is a black eye on the expansion.

[MechaCThun]

I recently saw a post from Blizzard about Chromie and going back in time or something. Have I gone with her? Has MoP just been announced?

HELLO people from the past, I come from the future! I bring news, the next expansions after MoP will be Warlords of Draenor, focusing on a Draenor from an alternate universe, and Legion, focusing on the Legion invasion of the Broken Isles! Which are bigger and filled with black elves. Enjoy your knowledge of the future!

Now, let us be a bit serious. Yes, there were flying sheep and sasquatch and whatever in Warcraft 3. And yes, I think Pandaria was not really handled well, but not because it had pandaren, but rather because most of it felt like a bad Hollywood movie stereotype about asian people.
But it's stupid to say that pandaren were not at least somewhat visible in Warcraft 3. Chen was basically a main character in the Horde campaign in Frozen Throne.
You can't say that about the flying sheep. As for the sasquatch, we actually have them. We fight one every Christmas to save Metzen the reindeer for years. They're just somewhat bulky-er now.

So, again, I think that HOW they took on Pandaria was bad. The fact however that they had pandaren, that was not the major problem. But let's put your argument taking another race, furbolgs. Would I be ok with a furbolg based expansion? If it made sense, yes. With the pandaren they focused too much on their culture and took too many refferences from bad Hollywood movies, which, to me, kind of ruined part of the experience. And their models don't fit much, and females have one face and and. But the fact that pandaren exist is not the problem in itself.

Solid opinion on the matter, with solid reasoning behind it.

I feel like people who may feel similar - albeit, unlikely to explain it this way - may be clumping their disdain with how MoP was introduced and handled with reasons why it shouldn't have been an expansion in the first place. Regardless of this reasoning it doesn't change the fact that Blizzard had a race of creatures in their universe IN THEIR WC3 game.

"Oh they were side characters that offered nothing to the story."

But they were still present INSIDE of the story. They appeared to major characters who INTERACTED with them INSIDE of the story.

[Zephre]

My main is a Pandaren and I play it because it's fun to trigger people like the OP, great to see people are still whining about us though. <3

[Deleted]

Chen Stormstout is a Pandaren Brewmaster hero that appears in the "Founding of Durotar" campaign where you help him find brews. This campaign is canon to the story. While he doesn't state he hails from the land of Pandaria, him being a pandaren and appearing in the campaign establishes the existence of pandarens in Warcraft III.

EDIT: I'm actually 98% sure "Founding of Durotar" is canon, and even the official description for the "Pandaren Brewmaster" neutral hero mentions the hail from Pandaria.

/thread

You realize by assisting the Horde in their establishment during the war between the Alliance and the Horde would label them as an ally / affiliate of the Horde and an enemy of the Alliance? This is where the entire foundation of the Pandaren lore began and this is where Blizzard got their strike one in massive holes in their stories.
f
It wasn't until MoP lore development where the Panadren were all of a sudden a "neutral" race. From a lore standpoint it makes no sense as to how the Alliance would consider any Pandaren "Especially Chen" an "Ally"

[MechaCThun]

You realize by assisting the Horde in their establishment during the war between the Alliance and the Horde would label them as an ally / affiliate of the Horde and an enemy of the Alliance? This is where the entire foundation of the Pandaren lore began and this is where Blizzard got their strike one in massive holes in their stories.
f
It wasn't until MoP lore development where the Panadren were all of a sudden a "neutral" race. From a lore standpoint it makes no sense as to how the Alliance would consider any Pandaren "Especially Chen" an "Ally"

They addressed this by establishing Chen himself came from the Wandering Isle during MoP. Now on a larger scale, Blizzard could have addressed that issue, however as minor as the role Chen had they felt it probably wasn't that big of a deal. Which I honestly agree with.

I don't think the foundation of Pandaren "lore" necessarily began with Chen assisting Rexxar and Rokhan during "Founding of Durotar"... perhaps only the stereotype that these "pandaren creatures" speak with a weird accent and favor intoxicating brews.

And these details have no bearing on the fact that Pandaren were present and seen during WC3, thus establishing them as an actual race within the Warcraft universe.

[Rhamses]

Interesting how the fanbase is now clamoring for another "break" expansion like MoP after dealing with WoD and Legion's darker tones. I think MoP will be remembered as one of the best WoW expansions we've ever had.

[StationaryHawk]

You realize by assisting the Horde in their establishment during the war between the Alliance and the Horde would label them as an ally / affiliate of the Horde and an enemy of the Alliance? This is where the entire foundation of the Pandaren lore began and this is where Blizzard got their strike one in massive holes in their stories.
f
It wasn't until MoP lore development where the Panadren were all of a sudden a "neutral" race. From a lore standpoint it makes no sense as to how the Alliance would consider any Pandaren "Especially Chen" an "Ally"

Are you actually implying that Chen's actions as an individual should have resulted in his entire race being branded as allies of the Horde? How about we instead consider Jaina's role in the death of her own father, so that the Horde could establish a foothold on Kalimdor in peace?

What an absurd complaint.

Now, let us be a bit serious. Yes, there were flying sheep and sasquatch and whatever in Warcraft 3. And yes, I think Pandaria was not really handled well, but not because it had pandaren, but rather because most of it felt like a bad Hollywood movie stereotype about asian people.
But it's stupid to say that pandaren were not at least somewhat visible in Warcraft 3. Chen was basically a main character in the Horde campaign in Frozen Throne.
You can't say that about the flying sheep. As for the sasquatch, we actually have them. We fight one every Christmas to save Metzen the reindeer for years. They're just somewhat bulky-er now.

So, again, I think that HOW they took on Pandaria was bad. The fact however that they had pandaren, that was not the major problem. But let's put your argument taking another race, furbolgs. Would I be ok with a furbolg based expansion? If it made sense, yes. With the pandaren they focused too much on their culture and took too many refferences from bad Hollywood movies, which, to me, kind of ruined part of the experience. And their models don't fit much, and females have one face and and. But the fact that pandaren exist is not the problem in itself.

I agree that pandaren draw their culture from a Hollywood interpretation of China. That said, many of the player races boil down to exaggerated interpretations of some culture.

[Utigarde]

The difference is that your other three examples were mindless mobs, where the Pandaren Brewmaster not only was a playable unit in multiplayer, but also came in the form of Chen Stormstout in the Rexxar campaign. He was a part of the story. I could also mention the optional pandaren from the TFT Alliance campaign, who joins Lady Vashj and Kael in freeing Illidan.

[MechaMoose]

they had more lore and backstory then the entirety of the worgen and the heavily retconned Draenei who originally just shamanistic broken not at all eredar

[Heladys]

Hey OP bro, chill. Pandaren were in the game since WC3. It'll be all right.

[Deleted]

Are you actually implying that Chen's actions as an individual should have resulted in his entire race being branded as allies of the Horde? How about we instead consider Jaina's role in the death of her own father, so that the Horde could establish a foothold on Kalimdor in peace?

The difference between Chen and Jaina is that Chen's entire role and purpose in the WC3 campaign was to help the Horde, the character was created to be a Horde affiliated character.. You can't take one out of many things Jaina did in the WC series and use the same argument.