Mannoroth=Goroth?

[Aucald]

The sad thing about it is that having numerous pit lord failures make burning legion even bigger joke of a villains.

I suppose it depends - Azeroth has been bungled multiple times, sure; but countless other worlds have fallen with a systematic and seemingly highly victorious pattern. If the mission is destroying the current universe the Legion is winning the engagement quite handily. But given Sargeras' focus on claiming and corrupting Azeroth's world-soul, losses on Azeroth might be considered more prominent than multiple successes on other worlds. I'd imagine Mannoroth and the Legion in general have an overall great track record in the aggregate sense - Azeroth is just the foremost stumbling-block for the Legion's efforts due to its special nature.

[Jastall]

I suppose it depends - Azeroth has been bungled multiple times, sure; but countless other worlds have fallen with a systematic and seemingly highly victorious pattern. If the mission is destroying the current universe the Legion is winning the engagement quite handily. But given Sargeras' focus on claiming and corrupting Azeroth's world-soul, losses on Azeroth might be considered more prominent than multiple successes on other worlds. I'd imagine Mannoroth and the Legion in general have an overall great track record in the aggregate sense - Azeroth is just the foremost stumbling-block for the Legion's efforts due to its special nature.

It's just that we're told the Legion are these amazingly powerful, unstoppable juggernauts that consumed thousands of world with ease.

We're shown a bunch of mustache-twirling villains with very little presence that don't feel threatening in the least because we always mow them down whenever they show up to do their speeches about dooms and burning and such. This time we not only beat them, we stop their invasion altogether then go on to blow up their house (or something along these lines). Hell, we kill them so often Blizzard had to make up an excuse to recycle the same demons over and over again in the form of their regenerative immortality. It's hard to take villains seriously when the dissonance between what you're told about them and what you actually see on-screen is so big.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Nah, don't think so. While Mannoroth had his share of failures, i believe he was only behind Archimonde and Kil'jaeden in the burning legion. Sargeras is possibly the worst villain ever, but i don't think he'd make Mannoroth one of his highest ranking generals if he was such a failure.

The "oroth" is probably just a race thing. A lot of elves and trolls have similar names.

[3DTyrant]

Wasn't Goroth the Pit Lord boss in Sunwell?

Nevermind, that was Brutallus, my mistake

[Caerule]

Honestly, I think the devs and design encounter designers planned this boss to be a construct like an Infernal, that was super epic in design, based on the Pit Lord model. That's what it looks like, and was initially described.

Then some lore guy made up some story about it being a punished pit lord, rather than an Infernal-like construct.

[FelPlague]

Interesting conjecture, but I'd doubt it. Goroth has a very different model (even structurally different from a Pit Lord) and a different voice actor as well - it seems more likely to me he's an entirely new character. Anything is possible, of course; perhaps after so many failures the Legion decides to introduce errors into the reincarnation process and changes their name accordingly.

really? i dont think the models are very diffrent, to me it literally looks like infernal/pitlord hybrid, i mean look at him
also teron'gor and terron gorfiend used different voice actors, and names

[Aucald]

really? i dont think the models are very diffrent, to me it literally looks like infernal/pitlord hybrid, i mean look at him
also teron'gor and terron gorfiend used different voice actors, and names

That's true - although Fred Tatasciore just did Mannoroth's VO in WoD so it would be odd to change him again. And outside the quadrupedal form I don't see much similarity between Goroth and other Pit Lords - no obvious wings, a large horn-like protrusion on his forehead, no evidence of the tusks of a Pit Lord. He's designated as a new demonic species called an "Infernal Lord," which may be related to the Pit Lords in some manner (whether lesser or greater is unknown) - but given differences of form and the different species designation I think it's still unlikely Goroth will prove to be Mannoroth.

[FelPlague]

That's true - although Fred Tatasciore just did Mannoroth's VO in WoD so it would be odd to change him again. And outside the quadrupedal form I don't see much similarity between Goroth and other Pit Lords - no obvious wings, a large horn-like protrusion on his forehead, no evidence of the tusks of a Pit Lord. He's designated as a new demonic species called an "Infernal Lord," which may be related to the Pit Lords in some manner (whether lesser or greater is unknown) - but given differences of form and the different species designation I think it's still unlikely Goroth will prove to be Mannoroth.

the thing is turning from a demonic pitlord into a burning hellstone infernal would change your voice.
yes no wings but he is made of stone, they dont have wings, also not all pitlords have em, like brutalas dont have any
the large horn protrustion could be new.

the infernals aren ot a species, they are constructs, and as the journal describes, this thing is not natural, he failed over and over, and was forced into this body, so like infernals it is a construct, but this one contains the soul of something that has failed, and is not in eternal agony.

the soul of a demon, put into the body of an infernal, does that not sound like something that could have happened to mannaroth?

also this is not his body, this is a vessel his soul would be forced into, so it does not need to look EXACT, but the same general shape, tail, 2 arms, 4 legs, large and muscular

[Aucald]

the thing is turning from a demonic pitlord into a burning hellstone infernal would change your voice.
yes no wings but he is made of stone, they dont have wings, also not all pitlords have em, like brutalas dont have any
the large horn protrustion could be new.

the infernals aren ot a species, they are constructs, and as the journal describes, this thing is not natural, he failed over and over, and was forced into this body, so like infernals it is a construct, but this one contains the soul of something that has failed, and is not in eternal agony.

the soul of a demon, put into the body of an infernal, does that not sound like something that could have happened to mannaroth?

also this is not his body, this is a vessel his soul would be forced into, so it does not need to look EXACT, but the same general shape, tail, 2 arms, 4 legs, large and muscular

I guess we'll have to see when the Tomb of Sargeras opens - his encounter text and associated content should put the question to bed one way or the other.

[Propainn]

I guess we'll have to see when the Tomb of Sargeras opens - his encounter text and associated content should put the question to bed one way or the other.

Voice actor change is probably enough to put this random shower thought to rest. It'd add some nice depth to the fight's lore, but I'm interested to see what ToS has to offer us in general still.

[Eon Drache]

the thing is turning from a demonic pitlord into a burning hellstone infernal would change your voice.
yes no wings but he is made of stone, they dont have wings, also not all pitlords have em, like brutalas dont have any
the large horn protrustion could be new.

the infernals aren ot a species, they are constructs, and as the journal describes, this thing is not natural, he failed over and over, and was forced into this body, so like infernals it is a construct, but this one contains the soul of something that has failed, and is not in eternal agony.

the soul of a demon, put into the body of an infernal, does that not sound like something that could have happened to mannaroth?

also this is not his body, this is a vessel his soul would be forced into, so it does not need to look EXACT, but the same general shape, tail, 2 arms, 4 legs, large and muscular

This theory is so far out there that with its logic you could say any character could be another. They look nothing alike. They don't have the same voice actor (Which in WoW wouldn't mean anything even if they did) and they have different names with absolutely nothing connecting them to each other. Yet they could be the same character? Based on what? Kind of looking the same in a general shape? That would be like saying Varian is the same character as Magni because they generally looked the same.

Confirmed here Magni = Varian = Varian not dead!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's just that we're told the Legion are these amazingly powerful, unstoppable juggernauts that consumed thousands of world with ease.

We're shown a bunch of mustache-twirling villains with very little presence that don't feel threatening in the least because we always mow them down whenever they show up to do their speeches about dooms and burning and such. This time we not only beat them, we stop their invasion altogether then go on to blow up their house (or something along these lines). Hell, we kill them so often Blizzard had to make up an excuse to recycle the same demons over and over again in the form of their regenerative immortality. It's hard to take villains seriously when the dissonance between what you're told about them and what you actually see on-screen is so big.

Gameplay takes an important part and they failed on Azeroth mostly. Everywhere else they win, they're still a big threat.

[Arrashi]

Gameplay takes an important part and they failed on Azeroth mostly. Everywhere else they win, they're still a big threat.

All those empty rocks they conquered. Not to mention that aggresive squirrels and deers that put resistance to them.

[Aucald]

All those empty rocks they conquered. Not to mention that aggresive squirrels and deers that put resistance to them.

Worlds destroyed by the Legion weren't always barren of sentient races - take for example the Aldrachi and their world, Xoroth (which had to have some kind of sentient race to be cowed by the destruction of neighboring Xerrath), Navane, and Centralis. All of these worlds and their inhabitants fell to the might of the Legion either by force of arms or by corruption from the Eredar and the Nathrezim. Add to that the races suborned and absorbed by the Legion during their conquest of the universe.

[Propainn]

This theory is so far out there that with its logic you could say any character could be another. They look nothing alike. They don't have the same voice actor (Which in WoW wouldn't mean anything even if they did) and they have different names with absolutely nothing connecting them to each other. Yet they could be the same character? Based on what? Kind of looking the same in a general shape? That would be like saying Varian is the same character as Magni because they generally looked the same.

Confirmed here Magni = Varian = Varian not dead!

There are some loose connections, but really this is what happens when you've played way too much Dark Souls and forget you're still playing WoW.

[Arrashi]

Worlds destroyed by the Legion weren't always barren of sentient races - take for example the Aldrachi and their world, Xoroth (which had to have some kind of sentient race to be cowed by the destruction of neighboring Xerrath), Navane, and Centralis. All of these worlds and their inhabitants fell to the might of the Legion either by force of arms or by corruption from the Eredar and the Nathrezim. Add to that the races suborned and absorbed by the Legion during their conquest of the universe.

Given how absurdly incompetent legion is both in their dealing on azeroth as well as having their world blown up by teenage elven manga fans, as well as having army of light run amok, i have a feeling that races of aldachi were caught off guard. And after 1000 year long civil war. And it was after the plague hit.

[vondevon]

I suppose it depends - Azeroth has been bungled multiple times, sure; but countless other worlds have fallen with a systematic and seemingly highly victorious pattern. If the mission is destroying the current universe the Legion is winning the engagement quite handily. But given Sargeras' focus on claiming and corrupting Azeroth's world-soul, losses on Azeroth might be considered more prominent than multiple successes on other worlds. I'd imagine Mannoroth and the Legion in general have an overall great track record in the aggregate sense - Azeroth is just the foremost stumbling-block for the Legion's efforts due to its special nature.

I think you kind of say it all here, but I see it differently. Most other worlds fall easily to the Legion, so Sargeras can send most other demons to deal with them. Azeroth is the prime target and the object of Sargeras' obsession. It would stand to reason that he would send his best generals, one after the other, to try and seize it -- and upon their subsequent failure, be more displeased than usual. Not only because he holds these generals to a higher standard, but because they fumbled his most sensitive of plans and wasted countless resources. How much power was funneled Mannoroth's way, only for him to fall again and again?

The true identity of Goroth aside, Mannoroth was definitely due for a reckoning with Sargeras. Goroth's backstory sounds like his flavor of punishment. And besides, the unoriginality of the name combined with the clear pit-lord silhouette makes a strong argument for me. Either that, or he's just some garbage demon 'X' and serves no lore purpose. That doesn't sound like the usual Blizzard encounter approach.

[FelPlague]

This theory is so far out there that with its logic you could say any character could be another. They look nothing alike. They don't have the same voice actor (Which in WoW wouldn't mean anything even if they did) and they have different names with absolutely nothing connecting them to each other. Yet they could be the same character? Based on what? Kind of looking the same in a general shape? That would be like saying Varian is the same character as Magni because they generally looked the same.

Confirmed here Magni = Varian = Varian not dead!

1. just because they look nothing alike,different name, and dont have the same voice actor does not mean they cant be the same charecter holy fucking shit how stupid of an excuse is that?

one of these things is not like the other, one of these things are, wait they arnt, its the same person!!!

also getting changed into a massive infernal beast will very, very much change your voice.

here is the thing, if you bothered to read anything here instead of just randomly going off
Gorroth is dictated as a demon who failed time and time again, and is now being punished, forced into this infernal body every movement is now pain for him.
this means this creature was not originally like this, and has failed many times.

The beast has a shape of a pitlord, and mannaroth has failed many times, so this makes sense, there is nothing out right now that confirms or breaks this theory, as right now it is rather vague.

- - - Updated - - -

There are some loose connections, but really this is what happens when you've played way too much Dark Souls and forget you're still playing WoW.

we know the legion are willing to bind souls (like socrethar) to constructs, and again this is not a far out theory
it is most likely to be a pitlord based on the shape
and it is said ti have fail many times, as mannaroth did, we have not seen him as of recent, and until blizzard says "no it is not" or makes mannaroth appear again, then the theroy could e true

there is nothing right not confirming or denying it, so for now its just a theory
a game theory, thanks for watching!

[Eon Drache]

1. just because they look nothing alike,different name, and dont have the same voice actor does not mean they cant be the same charecter holy fucking shit how stupid of an excuse is that?
one of these things is not like the other, one of these things are, wait they arnt, its the same person!!!

also getting changed into a massive infernal beast will very, very much change your voice.

here is the thing, if you bothered to read anything here instead of just randomly going off
Gorroth is dictated as a demon who failed time and time again, and is now being punished, forced into this infernal body every movement is now pain for him.
this means this creature was not originally like this, and has failed many times.

The beast has a shape of a pitlord, and mannaroth has failed many times, so this makes sense, there is nothing out right now that confirms or breaks this theory, as right now it is rather vague.

The above example was established in game to be the same character. There is nothing connecting mannoroth to Goroth other than the "Roth" at the end of the name and a similar? Kind of? Skeleton. For Gorefiend he mutated in game and his name changed to add the fiend part in it. The argument still stands that you could say Varian = Magni.

[FelPlague]

The above example was established in game to be the same character. There is nothing connecting mannoroth to Goroth other than the "Roth" at the end of the name and a similar? Kind of? Skeleton. For Gorefiend he mutated in game and his name changed to add the fiend part in it. The argument still stands that you could say Varian = Magni.

Roth
both are demons who have failed many times in the past
mannaroth is missing and this demon has suddenly appeared
"kind of similiar skeleton" wut? i dont wanna tell you, but they are the same shape


Like seriously?