Tauren VS Worgen

[ChampionChains]

Troll Berserker

Berserkers are a bloodthirsty sect of Trolls dedicated to the total annihilation of their hated enemies, the Elves. Suffering numerous experiments with strange chemicals and potions by the Goblin Alchemists, the Berserkers have had many strange abilities bestowed upon them that make them all but unstoppable in the heat of battle. Berserkers are hardier and stronger than most Trolls, effectively transforming them into a veritable whirling cyclone of death and destruction.
--WC2 manual

Dire trolls

A small number of trolls are strikingly larger and more heavily muscled than the rest of their brethren. There is no racial distinction between them and the rest of the troll race. A variety of reasons might be behind this unusual size and musculature. For example, dire trolls might have been altered alchemically or magically. They might also simply have been born larger than average. Regardless of the day-to-day prejudices that these trolls must contend with from other races, dire trolls are not regarded as monstrous by other trolls. (WC Encyclopedia)

That's WC2 which was written before there were other tribes of trolls who never had contact with goblins but have berserkers. Most of the stuff in the old RTS manuals has been retconned or dismissed.

[Aquamonkey]

This was true for the Forest Trolls allied with Doomhammer, I'm not sure there's a similar proof for the Jungle ones that joined Thrall in WC3.

WC3 doesn't say anything about the nature of its Troll Berserkers except that they are upgraded versions of Troll Headhunters.

Troll Headhunters may now be upgraded into Troll Berserkers, which are tougher and have the Berserk ability. Like Headhunters, Berserkers benefit from Troll Regeneration.

Versatile spear-thrower, good against air units. (Battle.net)

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That's WC2 which was written before there were other tribes of trolls who never had contact with goblins but have berserkers. Most of the stuff in the old RTS manuals has been retconned or dismissed.

And a lot that hasn't been retconned. You need specific proof that part of WC2 manual is retconned.

[Mirishka]

A tauren, based on size/theoretical muscle density, would be significantly stronger than a worgen.

Obviously that isn't reflected in game because balance, but an actual living creature with the physical statistics of a tauren would be a scary, scary thing. Especially one in plate armor wielding a man-sized axe. Go watch some nature videos of bulls/bison/etc losing their cool and attacking other animals. Its pretty goddamned frightening.

A worgen would probably be more akin to an extremely strong/agile man, and could certainly inflict grievous wounds with its claws and bite, but even the strongest man on the planet would get tossed around like a toddler by a pissed-off bull.

[Aucald]

Where did you get that? You know Wolves have incredibly strong cardio, sure they have weaker frame, but they could easily outlast their pray. I mean sure, bulls are sturdy animals, but being durable doesn't mean strong endurance.

Wolves usually chase their prey until it is tired and then rotate to bite and bleed it out. Wolves are known to stalk their prey for days if necessary.

A mix of starting stats, racial passives, and general thematic bits. Tauren have racial passives that grant endurance, stamina, etc. whereas Worgen have benefits that are agility and precision based. That premier racial ability of Tauren is literally called Endurance.

I think it's also good to underscore that neither Tauren nor Worgen are much like their animal cousins of bulls or wolves - they're both bipedal, highly intelligent (human-level intelligent), and capable of things that leave their animal counterparts in the evolutionary dust. If Worgen are in a pack against a lone Tauren they have a significant advantage - but on a 1v1 scale I don't think they're the a true threat to a Tauren (again in the most general and non-contextual of senses).

[Zulkhan]

I see your point, but I agree with your second one, this whole conversation is pointless, every fight boils down to who's more skilled/ gets lucky - it has nothing to do with their race. It's not exactly the same, but you could treat a man in real life as the tauren and a woman as the worgen, the man is bigger and stronger, but that by no means automatically assumes they will be able to beat every woman in a fight.

What you fail to understand is that average joes will be even in terms of skill and the same could be said about veterans, heroes and so on. And if the skill is equal than physical advantages are exactly what will shift the tip of the scale.

[mickybrighteyes]

I want to know... is tauren plainsrunning still a thing lorewise?

[Aucald]

I want to know... is tauren plainsrunning still a thing lorewise?

Sort of. The Bloodhoof chieftains, and now a few other Horde racial leaders, make use of messengers/spies known as Holy Striders that seem to encapsulate the Plainsrunning idea even though the ability itself no longer exists (in-game or within the lore). Plainsrunning has become more of a thematic thing as opposed to an explicit ability that the Tauren have as a race.

[Zulkhan]

Sort of. The Bloodhoof chieftains, and now a few other Horde racial leaders, make use of messengers/spies known as Holy Striders that seem to encapsulate the Plainsrunning idea even though the ability itself no longer exists (in-game or within the lore). Plainsrunning has become more of a thematic thing as opposed to an explicit ability that the Tauren have as a race.

Well, Longwalkers sort of represents the idea in-lore (since Holy Striders is RPG-only material).

[Aucald]

Well, Longwalkers sort of represents the idea in-lore (since Holy Striders is RPG-only material).

Ah, I forgot they'd changed the name of it to Longwalkers, sorry. I just remembered that they were traveling messengers/spies in service of the Bloodhoof chieftains.

[Arrashi]

Well, Longwalkers sort of represents the idea in-lore (since Holy Striders is RPG-only material).

The idea of tauren-sonics is amazing. Can you imagine biggass bull man saying "Cumon step it up" and "Gotta go fast".

Not to mention "live and learn" playing in the background.

[Isaelyn]

No to throw a wrench into things, but isn't this debate made mostly moot by the fact that Worgen are not technically a race? Worgen are born human, they spend most of their time developing as humans, and their offspring are born as humans without the curse. At the end of the day, they're humans with a condition and are no more a functional separate race than death knights are from their living counterparts. Their condition grants them an edge over their non afflicted kin to be sure, but it effectively amounts to asking what is physically superior, a baseline race with high physical capabilities, or a crappy druid in the one form their good at shapeshifting into.

While there is merit in the discussion of whether worgen form could put a human on par with a tauren without equipment, I feel it's still important to recognize that the race v race comparison is more of a race vs psuedo-toggle (because why would you not use worgen form in a fight unless you're holding back or just don't like it. *coughGENNcough* )

[RH92]

Tauren are the only race possessing a racial trait directly buffing their stamina, pretty much enlightening the fact that Tauren have generally more fortitude and durability than any other race.

A mix of starting stats, racial passives, and general thematic bits. Tauren have racial passives that grant endurance, stamina, etc. whereas Worgen have benefits that are agility and precision based. That premier racial ability of Tauren is literally called Endurance.

I think it's also good to underscore that neither Tauren nor Worgen are much like their animal cousins of bulls or wolves - they're both bipedal, highly intelligent (human-level intelligent), and capable of things that leave their animal counterparts in the evolutionary dust. If Worgen are in a pack against a lone Tauren they have a significant advantage - but on a 1v1 scale I don't think they're the a true threat to a Tauren (again in the most general and non-contextual of senses).

Now I am super confused about this thread, everybody seems to be making rules what applies and what does not based on argument they are trying to make.

I tried to make my points based on anatomy and what we know about animals that were inspiration for the races, but some kind of magic is absolutely destroying laws of physics. Ah, whatever.

I am out.

[Aucald]

Now I am super confused about this thread, everybody seems to be making rules what applies and what does not based on argument they are trying to make.

I tried to make my points based on anatomy and what we know about animals that were inspiration for the races, but some kind of magic is absolutely destroying laws of physics. Ah, whatever.

I am out.

That was essentially my point - you can't really make an argument from the anatomy of their animal namesakes, because both Worgen and Tauren are exceedingly different from either of those things. You can't really limit or define Worgen by the traits of wolves - Worgen are essentially werewolves, they've got human intelligence and cunning, a bipedal stance, and their transformation is due to Druidic magic which may or may not cause their strength to exceed purely physical parameters. Tauren has no real species analog, they have a few of the traits of Aurochs (the now extinct wild cousin of the domestic cow) but are much larger in stature and have human-level intelligence. It's easier to craft an argument from what we know of them from canon and in-game sources since a purely anatomical debate is open to far more speculation.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Claws and fangs aren't going to drop someone like a knife. If you watch nature documentaries you will notice that pack hunters never get instant kills. They work together to tire out and slow bleed out their prey though superficial cuts. Horns can also gore a man, wild bulls have also killed lions in one on one.

Worgen are described as having as having knife like claws.,

They arnt the size of normal pack hunters, they have claws scaled up to their bodies aka knife sized.

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Tauren I think. Way bigger, way stronger.

Slightly bigger jury is out on strength we have mid teir worgen lifting and throwing stage coaches and ripping security doors off of hinges that an orc couldn't. And killing forsaken by throwing them aginst walls.

They are faster similar in strength with daggers for claws and long ass teath, their only drawback is slightly less reach.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Slightly bigger jury is out on strength we have mid teir worgen lifting and throwing stage coaches

COACH, because it was one Worgen. Stop making shit up.

[ripping security doors off of hinges that an orc couldn't.

stop assuming Didn't means couldn't.

Cromush made it perfectly clear he was there to watch until he ran to the end and got shot in the stomach or whatever by Crowley.

They are faster similar in strength with daggers for claws and long ass teath, their only drawback is slightly less reach.

6 feet hunched vs over 12 feet is not "slightly less reach"

Even if the worgen ran around completley straight up he has a 4 foot height difference.

If you shrink Tauren down to their game size it's a 3foot height difference. Which is double the height difference of the mountain and the viper.

[Ilikegreenfire]

COACH, because it was one Worgen. Stop making shit up.




stop assuming Didn't means couldn't.

Cromush made it perfectly clear he was there to watch until he ran to the end and got shot in the stomach or whatever by Crowley.



6 feet hunched vs over 12 feet is not "slightly less reach"

Even if the worgen ran around completley straight up he has a 4 foot height difference.

If you shrink Tauren down to their game size it's a 3foot height difference.

One random quest mob teir worgen, if it was greymane or Crowley I wouldent bring it up.

Mid teir characters like quest mobs or are a good Idictator of what a race can do, they actually get screen time, but aren't overtly powerfull like true heros.

Early Nazgrim is a good example, he starts off as a mid teir bad ass warrior, but still within orc standards, eventually he progresses to highteir, one of the strongest orcs on the planet. Throwing telikenetic axes and causing lines of fire in the ground.

Blizzards internal bible puts average male tauren at 10 feet not 12.

[Rorke]

Tauren would destroy Worgen this isn't even a contest.

I'd go far as to even say that an Orc could beat a Worgen.

[Zulkhan]

Now I am super confused about this thread, everybody seems to be making rules what applies and what does not based on argument they are trying to make.

I tried to make my points based on anatomy and what we know about animals that were inspiration for the races, but some kind of magic is absolutely destroying laws of physics. Ah, whatever.

I am out.

You can't compare animals to humanoid creatures that are both influenced by magic in some way. But even with that out of the way, there's no doubt that bulls, buffalos and the like are particularly durable as well. It takes a considerable amount of time for a whole pack of lionesses to submit a single buffalo for good.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Tauren would destroy Worgen this isn't even a contest.

I'd go far as to even say that an Orc could beat a Worgen.

Worgen are definatly stronger than orcs, they can rip a security door off its hinges. Pick up a a forsaken in one hand and threw it anginst a wall killing it. And one even threw a stage coach, not to mention their naturial weaponry.

Remember the mop intro trailer where mr orc jumps on Mr human and still can't get the upper hand? A worgen is definatly stronger than an orc, but this thread is worgen vs tauren

[Zulkhan]

Worgen are definatly stronger than orcs, they can rip a security door off its hinges. Pick up a a forsaken in one hand and threw it anginst a wall killing it. And one even threw a stage coach, not to mention their naturial weaponry.

Wait, weren't Worgen strong as an Orc and agile like a Night Elf? Now they're suddenly stronger than Orcs?

Remember the mop intro trailer where mr orc jumps on Mr human and still can't get the upper hand?

He couldn't get the upper hand because the orc was a noob, where the human was definitely a veteran.