The Future of Mythic+ in 7.2.5

[Meowchan]

In 7.2.5 Blizzard plans on removing depleted keys from the game, and players will no longer have the chance to try a dungeon a second time and beyond. This removes an entire part of the game for players who enjoy the challenge and going high.

Mythic plus' potential is huge, and it would be a great loss if Blizzard let a part of it die with 7.2.5.

Hopefully it's not too late.

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[Deleted]

In 7.2.5 Blizzard plans on removing depleted keys from the game, and players will no longer have the chance to try a dungeon a second time and beyond.

I was under the impression that if you fail the key, it will give you a new one but -1 of the previous level.

[static28]

In 7.2.5, when you fail a run, the keystone no longer depletes, but becomes a randon dungeon keystone 1 level lower than the one just failed. Thats my understanding.

[klaps_05]

Hopefully it's not too late.

Shouldve posted months ago on the official forums, not 1 week before patch release on mmochampion. Also, how does removing depleted keys lower the challenge?

[potis]

Shouldve posted months ago on the official forums, not 1 week before patch release on mmochampion. Also, how does removing depleted keys lower the challenge?

Cause depleted key but the same = Run it 10 times, figure out the spots that are hard-->manage better-->Do better -->Push key.

Now its gonna become -->Run it, fail-->Run -1-->Push new key-->Fail-->Repeat-->Cry at Blizzard how challenge is gone because now you cant win by repetitiveness.

In other words, now its harder for the wannabees to act all pro, its easier for everyone else that doesnt give a fuck if someone does a +20 when they are just farming gear at +10 because now if the key fails you arent fucked and no one will run with you cause there is no reward.

In other words, system became 10000% better for alts and casuals (finally), became worst for the 10 groups running +20.

[Deleted]

Have I missed something? I might be reading into what you said incorrectly, but if you fail, it doesn't go down 1 level for you to try again?

EDIT: Googled, answered my own question!

[Meowchan]

If you fail Acrway+23 for example, you will get an Arcway+22 keystone. If you beat the Arcway+22 in time, you will get a random +23 dungeon. This stops players from pushing high because completing a high level requires multiple attempts at the same key and level.

[Blazo]

In 7.2.5 it works as follows (as I understood):
1.when you complete run in time - group got 3 items + key ( +number depends on time left);
2. When you complete dungeon, but not in time - group got 2 items + key (same +number but with random dungeon)
3. When you don't complete dungeon - group got 0 items (obviously xD) + key (same dungeon but 1 lvl lower )

So when you fail to complete m+ , you don't lose your key either way

[Meowchan]

Here are 7.2.5 changes from Blizzard:

Completing the run on time will have the same results it currently does in 7.2: you’ll get a new Keystone for a random dungeon that’s 1-3 levels higher than the one you just completed, based on how quickly you finished.
If you complete the dungeon but don’t make the timer, you’ll get a Keystone for a random dungeon that’s 1 level lower than the one you just used.
If you don’t complete the dungeon at all, you’ll have a Keystone for the same dungeon that’s one level lower than the one you just used.

Source: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754468222#1

So players have no way of practicing a dungeon. There isn't even a way of running any dungeon of level X after failing the timer of a dungeon level X. Completing a hard dungeon in time requires practice and multiple pulls, which is currently possible but won't be in 7.2.5.

[Deleted]

Here are 7.2.5 changes from Blizzard:



Source: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754468222#1

So players have no way of practicing a dungeon. There isn't even a way of running any dungeon of level X after failing the timer of a dungeon level X. Completing a hard dungeon in time requires practice and multiple pulls, which is currently possible but won't be in 7.2.5.

Well technically if what you want is to practice that particular dungeon this new system lets you do exactly that at 1 level lower. If you don't complete the dungeon at all you will get a key for the SAME dungeon 1 level lower. If you go from lets say a 25 arcway to 24 arcway, that is hardly gonna change a whole lot and will still let you try the same dungeon again to try and optimize it.

[Meowchan]

Going 1 level lower definitely changes a lot. Even if it didn't, as soon as I complete the dungeon 1 level lower I will receive a new random dungeon which is most likely a different dungeon. Either way it will not be possible to try the same dungeon multiple times.

[Emerald Archer]

This removes an entire part of the game for players who enjoy the challenge and going high.

It only ruins it for people who are pushing insanely high, for the majority of high key pushers, the groups stop when all the keys deplete.

They're catering to the majority of a minority, rather than the minority of the minority.

[Emancptr]

Cause depleted key but the same = Run it 10 times, figure out the spots that are hard-->manage better-->Do better -->Push key.

Now its gonna become -->Run it, fail-->Run -1-->Push new key-->Fail-->Repeat-->Cry at Blizzard how challenge is gone because now you cant win by repetitiveness.

In other words, now its harder for the wannabees to act all pro, its easier for everyone else that doesnt give a fuck if someone does a +20 when they are just farming gear at +10 because now if the key fails you arent fucked and no one will run with you cause there is no reward.

In other words, system became 10000% better for alts and casuals (finally), became worst for the 10 groups running +20.

The 7.2.5 system actually rewards people that run a lot of dungeons and "wanna-be tryhard." Every time you fail a key you have to re-run it to whatever level you were at before. Sometimes this will only be 1 dungeon (if the -1 is a good key), but other times you will have to run the key 2-3 times (if the -1 key is hard) to get it back to where you were.

The 7.2.5 system also has really weird interaction between finishing the dungeon and not finishing the dungeon. If i'm on a +22 CoS that I know I can complete in time, but for some reason I screw up and will miss the timer. It is most beneficial for me to not complete the +22 CoS at all (-1 random key). Instead, I should leave/reset the dungeon and ensure I get a +21 CoS (-1 same dungeon key).

Not to mention keys like Cath/Upper/Lower that will have to go down 3-4 levels (Tyrannical weeks) before the key can be re-done/improved.

Most players that are pushing the highest envelope of Mythic+ dislike this change because it forces chain running dungeons. Constantly repleting keys to the level that is an actual challenge isn't a fun/engaging experience for high-end M+.

Obviously, the Mythic+ changes are beneficial to the majority of the player base. And it's not a serious exaggeration to say that this only affects 10-20 groups, but it doesn't have to. All that needs to be added is a "lock keystone" feature. Allow players to lock their keystone at the current dungeon/M+ level. You can completely remove loot from a "locked keystone" if you want, but please let us try repeatedly to improve at a dungeon.

[Meowchan]

It only ruins it for people who are pushing insanely high, for the majority of high key pushers, the groups stop when all the keys deplete.

They're catering to the majority of a minority, rather than the minority of the minority.

I don't think only insanely high level runners are affected by this. Do people who run lower levels not wish to rerun a dungeon a second time trying to make the timer?

[Emancptr]

I don't think only insanely high level runners are affected by this. Do people who run lower levels not wish to rerun a dungeon a second time trying to make the timer?

In 7.2.5, the answer is no. Lower level key runners would much rather just get a -1 and then re-run a different dungeon.

[Meowchan]

In 7.2.5, the answer is no. Lower level key runners would much rather just get a -1 and then re-run a different dungeon.

If players can't practice things that are too hard for them, how are they meant to improve? Isn't overcoming challenges a part of the fun of gaming? I am not saying this should be mandatory for players, but shouldn't they at least the option to if they wish it?

[Emancptr]

If players can't practice things that are too hard for them, how are they meant to improve? Isn't overcoming challenges a part of the fun of gaming? I am not saying this should be mandatory for players, but shouldn't they at least the option to if they wish it?

If you read my post earlier Meowchan I am 100% in agreement with people having the option to retry a key. However, it is somewhat delusional to think anyone outside of the 10-20 groups that push high keys will actually use the feature.

Players that are struggling to do 10s or 15s would much rather get a -1 and try to re-roll a better/easier dungeon. That is the reality of the playerbase in World of Warcraft currently and why Blizzard is making the keystone changes that they are making.

[Socialhealer]

if you're pushing +23's +25's you should already know the tactics, you must of done tons of m+ before it's just more health/damage, so it's not as hard as you make it sound.

you need to adjust to the increased damage and dps requirements.

[potis]

The keystone changes are made so you wont require the same other 4 people every single time, or to wait friends to run your key cause it might be depleted.

The main problem of the M+ system at the higher tiers is the fear of depleting key and not being able to do shit after, same with lower skilled players.

They removed that fear this way, this system is 10000% times better than the one before for the majority, as i said above.

I have a friend that pretty much only run M+ for the last 7 months he isnt bad, but he is nearing 40, doesnt care to "research" as much obviously etc etc, fear of the game cause of that took him 1 month to get over the fear of "Depleting his key" to make him understand "JUST RUN OTHER PEOPLES KEYS, YOU ARE A TANK!"

You would be surprised how many people try M+, get a depleted key and then realize they are fucked in the certain system.

Yes, this fucks up the 10 groups that will run 100 M+ dungeons in a week, and make the system million times better for that that will run 2-5 dungeons in a week.

[Emancptr]

if you're pushing +23's +25's you should already know the tactics, you must of done tons of m+ before it's just more health/damage, so it's not as hard as you make it sound.

you need to adjust to the increased damage and dps requirements.

Not really. Pulls that work on a +23 might not work on the +25/26. Boss abilities that don't 1-shot you on +23 might 1-shot you on +25 (requiring prydaz/stam flask).

With the 7.2.5 changes I get one chance at that +25. Do I pull more conservatively so we don't wipe? Do I Prydaz every boss so I don't get 1-shot? What if I miss timer because I had to make all these conservative changes to how I was doing the dungeon?

They removed that fear this way, this system is 10000% times better than the one before for the majority, as i said above.

Obviously, this system is better for 99.99% of the playerbase. All we're asking for is a feature that allows us to "lock keystone" at it's current level and try it again. This feature would have no affect for that 99.99% of the playerbase, but would dramatically improve the quality of life of high-end Mythic+ pushing.