If super advanced health care was cheap, would you still eat healthy?

[Azadina]

the fact that it's not you. when people talk about wanting to do this, they mean as a means of immortality.

it's not immortality if the original you dies. like i said, YOU wouldn't be waking up in the body. the body would be waking up and assuming it is you.

Pretty much. A copy would be separate entity from the original, and if the original dies, then it's not much of a consolation for the original, that copy of it lives on, as the original is still dead. And nothing is to say that the life of the copy won't be drastically different down the line from how the original would have continued, unless one subscribes to the whole 'everyone's life is predetermined' thing.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

the fact that it's not you. when people talk about wanting to do this, they mean as a means of immortality.

it's not immortality if the original you dies. like i said, YOU wouldn't be waking up in the body. the body would be waking up and assuming it is you.

Yeah...that's just you saying the same thing over and over again.

I have all my memories, I think the same, I watch the same porn, I eat the same ice cream in every way I am the same person I was before...only now I occupy a new body. I would not be assuming I'm me...I would still be me...because my body does not define who I am...my mind does....and I still have my mind.

[shadowmouse]

YOU wouldn't be waking up in the body. the body would be waking up and assuming it is you.

Unless you are falling back on the idea of a soul, how would this distinction be meaningful to the clone? The body, as meat, would think nothing. As far as I know, it is possible to keep someone on life support without brain function. When you wake up, how do you know you are still the you that went to sleep?

If you wake up after years in a coma (let's say 10 years), would you still be you? The existence you knew has been fundamentally altered, the mother you remember is now ten years older and has been shaped by 10 years that you did not live through. Further, you lack knowledge of things that you'll need to know to get around in everyday life, you may not even know how to use the three seashells.

[derpkitteh]

Yeah...that's just you saying the same thing over and over again.

I have all my memories, I think the same, I watch the same porn, I eat the same ice cream in every way I am the same person I was before...only now I occupy a new body. I would not be assuming I'm me...I would still be me...because my body does not define who I am...my mind does....and I still have my mind.

like i said... this isn't the fanciful version, this is the real life version.

i'm repeating the same thing because that's the only way to say it plainly. unless there's a soul or the mind is some kind of tangible thing, there's no possible way without your brain to move YOU, the you reading this right now, into a new body. when you would lay down for the operation, it'd be like going to sleep, and you wouldn't wake up. the other body would, but you wouldn't be experiencing life through its eyes, it would.

- - - Updated - - -

Unless you are falling back on the idea of a soul, how would this distinction be meaningful to the clone? The body, as meat, would think nothing. As far as I know, it is possible to keep someone on life support without brain function. When you wake up, how do you know you are still the you that went to sleep?

If you wake up after years in a coma (let's say 10 years), would you still be you? The existence you knew has been fundamentally altered, the mother you remember is now ten years older and has been shaped by 10 years that you did not live through. Further, you lack knowledge of things that you'll need to know to get around in everyday life, you may not even know how to use the three seashells.

it's meaningful to the person wanting to attain immortality with this. they wouldn't, they would die.

what the clone thinks isn't really important, we're discussing what happens to you, and the fact is that you, your consciousness would end and the clone's would begin, your consciousness wouldn't continue existing in the clone's body.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

like i said... this isn't the fanciful version, this is the real life version.

i'm repeating the same thing because that's the only way to say it plainly. unless there's a soul or the mind is some kind of tangible thing, there's no possible way without your brain to move YOU, the you reading this right now, into a new body. when you would lay down for the operation, it'd be like going to sleep, and you wouldn't wake up. the other body would, but you wouldn't be experiencing life through its eyes, it would.

What you are not explaining is why... if the "copy" has my consciousness, my memories, my feelings, my thoughts...how is it not "me"? Why does the death of my physical body mean anything at all if my mind lives on?

[Dispraise]

I don't eat healthy now, and I'm hoping to be long dead by 2050.

[derpkitteh]

What you are not explaining is why... if the "copy" has my consciousness, my memories, my feelings, my thoughts...how is it not "me"? Why does the death of my physical body mean anything at all if my mind lives on?

it doesn't have your consciousness, because that's not physically tangible to be moved. is your consciousness a soul? is it a real thing? can it be interacted with, poked, prodded? no, it likely cannot be manipulated and moved into another entity, because there's no physical trace of it.

your consciousness, the person speaking to me right now, you, exist likely due to a process of reactions within your brain. if that brain does not continue to live, there's no reasonable way that your consciousness, YOU, should continue to live.

you can say that the new body is you, since it likely has your personality, everything that shaped you as a person(your memory). but what good does that do you if it wakes up and you don't?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

it doesn't have your consciousness, because that's not physically tangible to be moved. is your consciousness a soul? is it a real thing? can it be interacted with, poked, prodded? no, it likely cannot be manipulated and moved into another entity, because there's no physical trace of it.

your consciousness, the person speaking to me right now, you, exist likely due to a process of reactions within your brain. if that brain does not continue to live, there's no reasonable way that your consciousness, YOU, should continue to live.

you can say that the new body is you, since it likely has your personality, everything that shaped you as a person(your memory). but what good does that do you if it wakes up and you don't?

The whole concept of Virtual Immortality is based on mapping the human consciousness and transferring it.

[Soikona]

if they could reverse Carbs to have a fat burning effect, I would live on Fried Chicken Donut Burgers.

Wtf is that....

[derpkitteh]

The whole concept of Virtual Immortality is based on mapping the human consciousness and transferring it.

well, unless we find the soul, or the magic that makes our consciousness a tangible thing and not just a process of interactions between working parts in our brains... that's an impossibility.

it's not something that's tangible right now. maybe one day when we have godlike technology, when we can teraform planets in a matter of moments and entirely manipulate stars like playthings, maybe then we'll be able to touch a consciousness. but until thing, it's just a copy, and a copy doesn't equal a transfer.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

well, unless we find the soul, or the magic that makes our consciousness a tangible thing and not just a process of interactions between working parts in our brains... that's an impossibility.

it's not something that's tangible right now. maybe one day when we have godlike technology, when we can teraform planets in a matter of moments and entirely manipulate stars like playthings, maybe then we'll be able to touch a consciousness. but until thing, it's just a copy, and a copy doesn't equal a transfer.

According to some we'll have the ability to upload the human consciousness to a computer by 2045. Not saying I believe that...but they do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2045_Initiative

[derpkitteh]

According to some we'll have the ability to upload the human consciousness to a computer by 2045. Not saying I believe that...but they do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2045_Initiative

well, if i make it that long, i'd love to volunteer as a test subject.

either i die in the upload process and the consciousness in the computer is just a copy, or i get to be inside of a computer. win/win situation.

[Kokolums]

Eating healthy gives you more energy, makes you feel better, makes you function better on a day to day basis. It literally makes you better and stronger, so why exactly wouldn't you other than for the same reasons people already do lead unealthy lifestyles or live on unhealthy diets?

Because it tastes good.

[Super Kami Dende]

Wtf is that....

It literally says right above it.

[Bigbazz]

Because it tastes good.

It tastes better when its earned and you're not eating it all the time. You can be quite healthy and eat a calorie dense, fatty meal... You just don't do it all the time, that way you enjoy it more and you stay healthy. So no it doesn't necessarily "taste good", healthy eating can taste good.

I eat pretty healthy and cook all my own meals, and I can guarentee you it tastes a damn sight better than the "tasty" shite that most fat people are eating on a regular basis.

[Deleted]

In that scenario i'd buy enough robots to grow me a new body everyday and remove the need to eat (and sleep) altogether, saving me lots of money.

I'd probably also create copies of myself.

[Protean]

Uhh, no, because that is not a part of the OP. The OP specifically stated that transfer of consciousness from a living body to a new living body was possible, that means that this is very specifically NOT part of the OP's scenario.


I answered it perfectly within your guidelines, bub.
This is not a "loophole for why it wouldn't work"... The OP asked:


And I responded with NO, and my REASON WHY.

This is not a loophole. I would not take additional unnecessary risks because the copy is not me. How is that a fucking loophole to you? It's like you fucking expect everyone to answer this question with "Yes and".




Yes, principles... I am dead if I die, therefore I don't want to unnecessarily risk death because the copy is not me, it does not contain my consciousness. Those are my "principles" in this argument. You are the one looking for a loophole here, not me.

Why not just admit that you're incapable of abstract thought and move on so the rest of us who enjoy theoretical scenarios can play with OP's question.


Because it's embarassing to see you miss the point every time it's explained for you in a new way.


It's a hypothetical situation used to discover things about how people act. You're busy discussing semantics or how it can't happen. It's not meant to happen, it's meant to explore what-if scenarios (that doesn't have to be realistic or even obey whatever rules you make up for the real world) and abstract thought is required for that.

[derpkitteh]

In that scenario i'd buy enough robots to grow me a new body everyday and remove the need to eat (and sleep) altogether, saving me lots of money.

I'd probably also create copies of myself.

i'd definitely create and fuck myself.

[Protean]

the fact that it's not you. when people talk about wanting to do this, they mean as a means of immortality.

it's not immortality if the original you dies. like i said, YOU wouldn't be waking up in the body. the body would be waking up and assuming it is you.

That's just how you think it works. If you knew for certain you should be awarded a medal.


We haven't ever had the techonology to make a perfect clone, you have no idea what will happen if we make one. Maybe it turns out conscience is outside the body and you gain the perspective of both clones at the same time.


So arguing realism is null when you operate on non-confirmed data only.



Hell we can't even prove whether the same conscience that goes to bed is the same that wakes up. Maybe you live only during moments of conscience, maybe you die every night and a new clone with your old memories is reborn, thinking it's just one individual and not a long unbroken chain of clones.

[derpkitteh]

That's just how you think it works. If you knew for certain you should be awarded a medal.


We haven't ever had the techonology to make a perfect clone, you have no idea what will happen if we make one. Maybe it turns out conscience is outside the body and you gain the perspective of both clones at the same time.


So arguing realism is null when you operate on non-confirmed data only.



Hell we can't even prove whether the same conscience that goes to bed is the same that wakes up. Maybe you live only during moments of conscience, maybe you die every night and a new clone with your old memories is reborn, thinking it's just one individual and not a long unbroken chain of clones.

if our consciousness exists on some metaphysical plane we cannot detect, creating a synthetic human body would never work, because that would mean something special happens with birth to bestow that body with life.

experiencing reality from two bodies at once would be quite the sensation though. i wonder if the human mind could tolerate it.

of course i can't prove anything. but unless our consciousness is some outer force, it shouldn't be able to work any other way from what i've said. it just doesn't make sense to work any other way.