If super advanced health care was cheap, would you still eat healthy?

[Super Kami Dende]

Time is money, friend.

sounds like one of those cop out excuses people use to justify eating junk food over healthy food.

[Deleted]

Individual cells within the whole, parts are swapped out and replaced, others carry the weight while it's done and redistribute once it's finished, the consciousness maintains it's presistence.

Again, there is a massive difference between that and creating an entirely new entity from scratch and then giving it a copy of my memories after I die. How you could possibly call these two scenarios anywhere near similar baffles me.

isn't it easier to just point out to them that the clone won't remember dying, and in fact will miss all memories since the last backup synchronization, and therefore isn't you?

or alternatively: if the clone does remember your (it's own) death, that also an interesting existential crisis waiting to happen. (though i guess that is a mental health problem the robot can trivially fix)

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sounds like one of those cop out excuses people use to justify eating junk food over healthy food.

not having time is the most common excuse i hear for just about anything, and people can always explain it. hows that a cop out.

[Super Kami Dende]

not having time is the most common excuse i hear for just about anything, and people can always explain it. hows that a cop out.

Because eating healthy requires hardly any extra time. Thus is a cop out. just like people that say eating healthy is more expensive. Also a cop out.

People need to just admit they eat unhealthy because they like to.

[Granyala]

Yes, because I am dead, the copy isn't, the copy isn't me, it's a copy of me, how is this so hard for people to grasp?

That only depends on 2 things:
1) is the replication process accurate enough?
2) does the copy know?

If 1 is yes and 2 is no, your copy would be you. Right down to arguing that a copy it wouldn't be it anymore.

@Topic: I don't care about "healthy" food. The definition of "healthy" changes on a whim of the industry anyway. I just eat what I feel like and see to it that I don't get fat. Worked 31 years so far.

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Time is money, friend. (regarding prep time of "healthy" meals)

Irrelevant. Rounded meals don't have to be 5 course dinners. Plenty of recipes for "healthy" meals that don't take longer than baking a frozen pizza.

[Shiny212]

Eating unhealthy food doesn't just damage your body in the long term, you'll feel terrible for the duration. Being able to cure all the long term ailments wouldn't stop you from feeling like shit.

[Deleted]

Because eating healthy requires hardly any extra time. Thus is a cop out. just like people that say eating healthy is more expensive. Also a cop out.

People need to just admit they eat unhealthy because they like to.

in my personal experience junk food always wins out in time required.

heating a pizza takes 30 minutes, but only 1-2 minutes of work you can do something else in the meantime.
microwaving something takes 5 minutes.
cooking a simple meal takes 15 minutes and requires your attention.

same story for cost really. if you are below €50 a week for food eating healthy becomes a challenge, and challenges require more time/effort.

eating healthy also tends to require more frequent trips to the supermarket in my experience.

[Super Kami Dende]

in my personal experience junk food always wins out in time required.

heating a pizza takes 30 minutes, but only 1-2 minutes of work you can do something else in the meantime.
microwaving something takes 5 minutes.
cooking a simple meal takes 15 minutes and requires your attention.

same story for cost really. if you are below €50 a week for food eating healthy becomes a challenge, and challenges require more time/effort.

eating healthy also tends to require more frequent trips to the supermarket in my experience.

Takes me generally 10mins to prep and cook a healthy meal. I spend about $70AUD a week, even less about $40 if I do a full week of prepped meals on a Sunday.

[Deleted]

Takes me generally 10mins to prep and cook a healthy meal. I spend about $70AUD a week, even less about $40 if I do a full week of prepped meals on a Sunday.

sounds like you agree with me unless i'm missing something.

you spend more time then microwaving/heating up, and in order to go below €50 you have to do serious planning/effort.

[Super Kami Dende]

sounds like you agree with me unless i'm missing something.

you spend more time then microwaving/heating up, and in order to go below €50 you have to do serious planning/effort.

Hardly serious, 1 hour of prep for an entire week of meals. I used to have to cook more daily when I ate junk, or waste time going to the shops.

[Granyala]

sounds like you agree with me unless i'm missing something.

you spend more time then microwaving/heating up, and in order to go below €50 you have to do serious planning/effort.

People spend HOURS in front of their dumb television etc.
If they can do that, they should find time to prep food.

That's why Dracula calls it a cop out for laziness.
People HAVE the time. They are not willing to allocate the time to cooking though.

Yep, guilty of it myself. I hate cooking and often eat "autopilot" convenience-meals (or visit my parents with a grumbling stomach )

[Teraparte]

in my personal experience junk food always wins out in time required.

heating a pizza takes 30 minutes, but only 1-2 minutes of work you can do something else in the meantime.
microwaving something takes 5 minutes.
cooking a simple meal takes 15 minutes and requires your attention.

same story for cost really. if you are below €50 a week for food eating healthy becomes a challenge, and challenges require more time/effort.

eating healthy also tends to require more frequent trips to the supermarket in my experience.

I'm not here to try and trip you up, pontificate or shoot you down at all. My goal is just to give advice to you or anyone else out there who may be interested.

You can save money by eating healthy if you play your cards right. Much of the issue has to do with how we're conditioned and a big part of the catch is deprogramming yourself from how many of us were raised in the West and deprogramming doings of the food industry that wants us constantly stuffing our face with stuff they often market as being the ultimate in convenience. I'll give you a few quick examples: A snack could be a big bowl of spinach topped with broccoli, mushrooms, shredded carrots and lightly dressed with balsamic vinegar. That is dirt cheap, filling, and quick and easy to make as that pizza. Canned sardines in water... one of the healthiest foods you can eat makes a great snack too. Simply open the can and eat 'em. Snack on veggies and fruit. There's a lot of stuff like that. But you gotta get used to it.

As far as time is concerned, you can cook your food in bulk. For instance on Sunday I may make enough brown rice to last for 5 days. Hungry? Wrap that rice with some tomatoes, lettuce and salsa in a whole wheat tortilla and there's a decently healthy meal that gives a lot of energy. Boil enough eggs to last a few days, same for beans. Learn to use a Crock-pot. With it you can kinda hack cooking time in that something may take 6 hours to cook, but you can just set a timer and forget about it. You can actually cook while you're at school/work. I'll take some cheap beef (that becomes tender after slow cooking), toss that in there with some carrots, onions, celery, peppers and then I have some healthy beef stew for a night or two. It takes a few hours to cook, but only a few mins to prepare.

Cost? Here's the biggy. Many of us simply eat too much. About that deprogramming I mentioned earlier, one of the hardest parts of that is teaching ourselves not to eat until we can't fit anymore in our bellies. Such behavior is so very often unhealthy and expensive. It is *really* hard to get out of that habit and you'll be "hungry" for a few weeks or even a month until your body adjusts but get overt the hurdle and you'll lose weight and save money. But yeah, try and eat "third world" style. Cheap veggies, rice, fruits, cheap fish (eat fish low on the food chain). Try not to be taken by health food companies that got you spending half your paycheck on an "organic" meal. Try and be a conscious consumer and I'm convinced you'll improve your health inside and out, have more vigor -AND- save time and money. As an aside, it's okies to have your pizza, candy bars, McDonald's, but just cut back on it and realize it's not the be all and end all of simple, cheap and easy cooking.

[Schattenlied]

isn't it easier to just point out to them that the clone won't remember dying, and in fact will miss all memories since the last backup synchronization, and therefore isn't you?

or alternatively: if the clone does remember your (it's own) death, that also an interesting existential crisis waiting to happen. (though i guess that is a mental health problem the robot can trivially fix)

That's not even the point I'm trying to make, at all. From the original's perspective it is dead, the copy system doesn't benefit the original at all, it doesn't preserve their life, it replaces them with a copy. The original doesn't start experiencing life as the copy, the original is gone, their life is over.

That only depends on 2 things:
1) is the replication process accurate enough?
2) does the copy know?

If 1 is yes and 2 is no, your copy would be you. Right down to arguing that a copy it wouldn't be it anymore.

Irrelevant and irrelevant, as I have explained a multitude of times.

The copy, even if PERFECT, is a separate entity, it is a copy, without a transfer of consciousness, it is not you.

In the event of your death, the backup copy is used to clone you, there is no transfer of consciousness, you do not suddenly start experiencing life as the copy, you are dead, the copy lives on in your place.


The backup copy system does not benefit the original, because no matter how perfect it is, from the original's perspective it is dead, life is over - if the point of the copy is to save your life in the event of your death, thus allowing you to "take risks" and accidentally kill yourself doing something you otherwise wouldn't, you still died, your existence has ended, the copy lives on in your stead completely separate of you, you do not get to continue experiencing life.

[Spectral]

Time is money, friend.

When it comes to cooking, I think the average person would be well served to place a very low marginal value on their time. Most people have plenty of time to cook a reasonable dinner and the full extent of the obligation here would be giving up 15-20 minutes of TV or internet time (assuming ~15-20 minutes prep time and an hour cook time for a typical meal).

[Queen of Hamsters]

I eat healthy and exercise to combat anxiety, so yes.

Could I be transfered to a new body and hope anxiety didn't follow? Sure, but since it's equal measure mind as it is physical, it wouldn't help. People with anxiety tend to be well above average in intelligence though, so I guess being put into a body with a lesser brain, effectively lobotomizing myself, could help...

[Spectral]

Eating unhealthy food doesn't just damage your body in the long term, you'll feel terrible for the duration. Being able to cure all the long term ailments wouldn't stop you from feeling like shit.

Could you be more explicit in your definition of "unhealthy" here? I honestly feel great when I eat a burger and fries.

[Kraenen]

Probably. Healthy food just tastes better for me personally.

[Jonnusthegreat]

I would probably live my life the same way I do now, which is do whatever I want, whenever I want. Turns out, I'm in perfect health.

[Kraenen]

Could you be more explicit in your definition of "unhealthy" here? I honestly feel great when I eat a burger and fries.

I'd think of something less substantial and higher sugar than burger and fries - like potato chips or ice cream

[Deleted]

If the clone has all of my experiences and EVERYTHING ABOUT ME and, let's add, in my consciousness's perception, there is no interruption of anything in the change, how have I ceased to exist?

You're denying my premise, not making an argument against it.

There is an interruption of consciousness when you die and your clone wakes up. It seems that you care only about your information, not your actual self, and in a sense this is correct because we are nothing but information, but this goes against every instinct a human has.

He is right when saying your clone isn't you. He is a perfect copy of your information (including memories etc) but he isn't you, because there is nothing stopping the clone, or 10 clones for that matter, from waking up before you die, and then as much as I'd like me some clones I would put my life above theirs. It's a basic survival instinct.

An exemple of this is in the movie The Prestige from 2006 (great movie btw) where the main character discovered a way to perfectly clone himself (or anything), but the copy gets teleported a certain distance. He uses this tech for his show, with one of the 2 "him" being teleported on stage and the other "him" falling in a trap full of water where he drowns, he does that to be sure that there wouldn't be mutliple "him's" roaming around. We don't know that until the very end of the movie even if there are hints throughout. What I find fascinating is that he used this technique as a desperate last resort to achieve fame (prestige), but he is terrified every time he goes on stage be cause he doesn't know if he is not going to open his eyes to find himself in the tank full of water.

It is a great illustration, showing that you can die while having your information perfectly kept. In your exemple however, it is not one body that becomes 2, but one that dies and another which starts living as soon as you die. It is like being the one in the water tank with 100% certainty, except that your death is instantaneous.


Someone mentioned the book Commonwelth, it's a great exemple of how actual transmission of consciousness from body to body should work to ensure you do not die : the 2 bodies are linked throughout the operation, your future body being in a begetative state. At some point during the procdure you feel like you are in both both bodies, you feel like if there was a slight echo to your thoughts, and the the computer which managing the procedure cuts the signal in your original body, and tadaaa... you switched bodies.

It is still imperfect though, as there is this idea of echo which is an invention. A perfect consciousness transmission would require to destroy your original brain (while you're conscious preferably) cell by cell or better yet atome by atome, while reconstructing or simulating each destroyed cell/atome almost instantly, and making sure they are connected at all times with the original brain.

Continuation of consciousness is imo the only true form of immortality.

Same thing with parallel universes : if there was an infinity of universes created everytime a true random quantic evenement gave a different outcome, would you be fine with our entire universe being destroyed by one of those random events, knowing that there exists an other absolutely identical universe out there where everything is fine ? Keep in mind that if this theory was true there would be plenty of pretty much identical universes with other "you's" out here, for all the good it does to you...

[prwraith]

Please don't tell me that's actually a thing... Sounds as bad as deep fried twinkies at carnivals.

Clearly, you've never had a double cheeseburger stuffed inside Krispy Kreme donuts drizzled in sawmill gravy

you haven't lived sir. But you probably will continue to do so longer than the guy who has tried it !