Puerto Rico votes in favor of statehood... again.

[Mayhem]

They are self governing for one.

You mean like a self-governing colony?

[Kellhound]

You mean like a self-governing colony?

Again, the UN does not consider PR to be a colony in any legal sense, or it would be listed as such.

[Noradin]

They are self governing for one.

So they do get to decide their own taxes and how to spend them?
You know, the bit about "no taxation without representation" that I heard people from the USA feel so strongly about...

[Zarc]

Only 27% of eligible voters voted for Clinton and 26% for Trump in 2016, does that mean neither would have been able to claim "clearly the expressed will of the people"?

The two are not comparable, surely you understand that. One is the election to a public office for a 4-year term, an administrative position that must be filled one way or another and for which there will be another election in 4 years. The other is about the constitutional status of Puerto Rico. It's a given to demand higher turnout and/or majorities to change such things, the United States notably requires super-majorities to amend their constitution. The whole reason to why Puerto Rico voted again was because the 2012 referendum wasn't deemed legitimate enough for such reasons.

Personally I would love for Puerto Rico to join the United States as a State, though. I like Unions, they tend to increase opportunities, freedom of movement and greater choices of where and how to live for individuals as the geographic area in which they are legally allowed to be increases, ultimately increasing individual freedom. =)

[Kellhound]

So they do get to decide their own taxes and how to spend them?
You know, the bit about "no taxation without representation" that I heard people from the USA feel so strongly about...

They actually get massive tax breaks because they are not a state, such as not paying income tax. And they have there own tax laws.

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The two are not comparable, surely you understand that. One is the election to a public office for a 4-year term, an administrative position that must be filled one way or another and for which there will be another election in 4 years. The other is about the constitutional status of Puerto Rico. It's a given to demand higher turnout and/or majorities to change such things, the United States notably requires super-majorities to amend their constitution. The whole reason to why Puerto Rico voted again was because the 2012 referendum wasn't deemed legitimate enough for such reasons.

Personally I would love for Puerto Rico to join the United States as a State, though. I like Unions, they tend to increase opportunities, freedom of movement and greater choices of where and how to live for individuals as the geographic area in which they are legally allowed to be increases, ultimately increasing individual freedom. =)

They are both elections that have no constitutional requirements concerning voter turnout when deciding legitimacy.

PR has freedom of movement, they are US citizens already.

[Noradin]

They actually get massive tax breaks because they are not a state, such as not paying income tax. And they have there own tax laws.

But they still pay taxes they get no say in, right?

[Kellhound]

But they still pay taxes they get no say in, right?

I do that as well even living in the US.

[Noradin]

I do that as well even living in the US.

No, those get to vote for their federal government.

[Kellhound]

No, those get to vote for their federal government.

I had to pay state income taxes (until I changed jobs to my home state) to a state I didnt live in and had no say in.

[Noradin]

I had to pay state income taxes (until I changed jobs to my home state) to a state I didnt live in and had no say in.

Then I guess it is even worse than I thought :P

[Kellhound]

Then I guess it is even worse than I thought :P

If you visit here, you would be paying sales tax with no say in how the tax is spent, and I am sure I have to pay consumption taxes if I visited the EU even though I have no say in how that money is spent.

[Mayhem]

If you visit here, you would be paying sales tax with no say in how the tax is spent, and I am sure I have to pay consumption taxes if I visited the EU even though I have no say in how that money is spent.

That is not entirely true for the US and completely false for the EU.

"Travellers resident in a country outside the EU, can shop tax-free at shops outside EU airports. The traveller pays the VAT over goods in the shop, and can request a refund when leaving the European Union with the goods. General restrictions are that a traveller must be a resident in a non-EU country, has a maximum stay of 6 months when visiting the EU, purchases are made up to three months prior to export, and only goods meant for personal use are eligible for the refund. Travellers need to keep the purchase receipts and visit Customs before leaving the EU to get an export validation stamp. Receipts can then be sent back to the retailers for a refund request.

Each country in the EU has a different VAT rate which is reclaimable and a minimum purchase amount restriction."

[Derpleton]

Puerto Rico can be a state if we kick out California

[Deleted]

What would you want with a third world country like PR as a state?

[Kellhound]

That is not entirely true for the US and completely false for the EU.

"Travellers resident in a country outside the EU, can shop tax-free at shops outside EU airports. The traveller pays the VAT over goods in the shop, and can request a refund when leaving the European Union with the goods. General restrictions are that a traveller must be a resident in a non-EU country, has a maximum stay of 6 months when visiting the EU, purchases are made up to three months prior to export, and only goods meant for personal use are eligible for the refund. Travellers need to keep the purchase receipts and visit Customs before leaving the EU to get an export validation stamp. Receipts can then be sent back to the retailers for a refund request.

Each country in the EU has a different VAT rate which is reclaimable and a minimum purchase amount restriction."

So it costs money to get your money back from VAT, and that is not the only tax in the EU, and I can work in the EU and pay income tax without being a resident, thus not being able to vote.

[Mayhem]

So it costs money to get your money back from VAT, and that is not the only tax in the EU, and I can work in the EU and pay income tax without being a resident, thus not being able to vote.

Incidentally you're not paying income tax in the country you are being able to vote, your point?

[unfilteredJW]

Why would the US want to give statehood to an impoverished territory that can't even speak English? They're free to leave their tiny island and have full rights on the mainland. Congress is under no obligation to grant statehood to a smaller version of Greece because they want to become a larger parasite.

That's a nice ball of horseshit you dumped into the thread.

[Kellhound]

Incidentally you're not paying income tax in the country you are being able to vote, your point?

If I am an American, Uncle Sam still takes his share. The main point was taxation without representation happens, its not unique to PR.

[Mayhem]

If I am an American, Uncle Sam still takes his share. The main point was taxation without representation happens, its not unique to PR.

Yeah, still a difference if it's done voluntarily or not, both your examples are the former.

[Independent voter]

It's like letting Greece into the EU but after you know that Greece has a basket case economy.