Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Deleted]

Currently as many has pointed out - Mantle+Bracer is the best combo for T19. Reason is during 30% phase your toxic blade, kingsbane and envenom deal crazy amount of damage, especially if you can line up all the stars together eg. 30%, vendetta, toxic blade, kingsbane, vanish and Pot. It is the most satisfying and rewarding gameplay for me. The amount of DPS you deal during that time is EXPLOSIVE to say the very least.

There is no other class around which is doing so much dps in the last 30%.

[Slowwalker]

Hi all,

Long time lurker first time poster, but after 7.2.5 I thought i share my Sin knowledge that i gathered so far with the community.

Currently as many has pointed out - Mantle+Bracer is the best combo for T19. Reason is during 30% phase your toxic blade, kingsbane and envenom deal crazy amount of damage, especially if you can line up all the stars together eg. 30%, vendetta, toxic blade, kingsbane, vanish and Pot. It is the most satisfying and rewarding gameplay for me. The amount of DPS you deal during that time is EXPLOSIVE to say the very least.

Other than that you want to try to line up as many Toxic Blade and Kingsbane together while trying to squeeze in as many Envenoms as possible. Having said that I don't think is possible to have all TB and KB line up, so do what you can do but you still want to pool the energy and pump up the envenoms during that window.

This is my logs from yesterday M Krosus kills from a 6/10 progression group. I thought I did pretty well for my Ilvls and wanted to share it with you guys. Hope the info+logs here helps some of the fellow Sin rogues.

*repost, initial post with links got deleted, you can search the logs for Slowwalker - Thaurissan.

[Won7on]

It's ironic that they've finally gotten Outlaw to a good spot regarding RNG and Roll the Bones, because, at the same time, they've made Assassination into an RNG monster.

A single Poison Bomb proc with Vendetta + TB + Shoulder buff up deals 6-7M damage. On a 2:00 fight, that's a 50-60k DPS swing. From one. Proc.
If you get multiple procs, or hit multiple targets, it's even crazier.
I guess if you want to spin the slot machine and get crazy rank 1 parses, the new Assassination is for you. But it's not for me, and I think I may be done with the spec. I'd rather play Sub, which averages a solid 50-80k higher, even if it's not gonna get those 1.4M parses.

[Eazy]

It's ironic that they've finally gotten Outlaw to a good spot regarding RNG and Roll the Bones, because, at the same time, they've made Assassination into an RNG monster.

A single Poison Bomb proc with Vendetta + TB + Shoulder buff up deals 6-7M damage. On a 2:00 fight, that's a 50-60k DPS swing. From one. Proc.
If you get multiple procs, or hit multiple targets, it's even crazier.
I guess if you want to spin the slot machine and get crazy rank 1 parses, the new Assassination is for you. But it's not for me, and I think I may be done with the spec. I'd rather play Sub, which averages a solid 50-80k higher, even if it's not gonna get those 1.4M parses.

That's a shame, I stopped playing Outlaw because it had too much RNG. Sometimes in raids(early EN) I was near the top, sometimes I was in one of the last places in DPS ranks. So I changed my spec to Assa to have more stable position and they're making it even more RNG than it was before.

[Umbrex]

It's ironic that they've finally gotten Outlaw to a good spot regarding RNG and Roll the Bones, because, at the same time, they've made Assassination into an RNG monster.

A single Poison Bomb proc with Vendetta + TB + Shoulder buff up deals 6-7M damage. On a 2:00 fight, that's a 50-60k DPS swing. From one. Proc.
If you get multiple procs, or hit multiple targets, it's even crazier.
I guess if you want to spin the slot machine and get crazy rank 1 parses, the new Assassination is for you. But it's not for me, and I think I may be done with the spec. I'd rather play Sub, which averages a solid 50-80k higher, even if it's not gonna get those 1.4M parses.

Absolutely agree

Smacked the dummy a fair bit this morning ...did 4 5 minute tests and got 1.05-1.06 mill dps

Pretty fucking consistent. It is also worth to consider the value of actually being able to contribute something else than tunneling the boss.

[Won7on]

It is also worth to consider the value of actually being able to contribute something else than tunneling the boss.

Yes. People in my raid (half-jokingly) think I'm a tunnel lord because I never switch off the boss. I'm excited to play a spec that doesn't have 7 target debuffs so I can prove them wrong.

Honestly, I think the new Sub might be simpler than Assassination too. For a long time, people said "people play Ass on progression because it's the simpler spec, Sub is hard to do optimally".

Well... Assassination now has to manage 4 de-synced CDs, 3-4 debuffs, Envenom uptime, and potentially EP clipping.

Having played the new Sub, it's much simpler. Blades and Vanish line up naturally every ~1:30-1:40. Symbols is 0:30, so it lines up every 3rd, and Dance has charges and can just be held for whenever. And the basic rotation is a very simple 3-button Backstab/SS NB Evisc.

No complex relic management either, since nothing there affects the CDs of anything.

Pretty sure anyone still saying "Sub is more complicated than Ass" in 7.2.5 is behind the times.

[nocturnus]

It's ironic that they've finally gotten Outlaw to a good spot regarding RNG and Roll the Bones, because, at the same time, they've made Assassination into an RNG monster.

A single Poison Bomb proc with Vendetta + TB + Shoulder buff up deals 6-7M damage. On a 2:00 fight, that's a 50-60k DPS swing. From one. Proc.
If you get multiple procs, or hit multiple targets, it's even crazier.
I guess if you want to spin the slot machine and get crazy rank 1 parses, the new Assassination is for you. But it's not for me, and I think I may be done with the spec. I'd rather play Sub, which averages a solid 50-80k higher, even if it's not gonna get those 1.4M parses.

Yep, it's a total mess.

The only thin we needed after the removal of AP was to a good buff to DP and an on demand poison bomb skill or talent.

But no, those dimwits thought it was better to increase our dependency on RNG and give us yet another completely out of syn debuff to track.

I'm telling you man, those class developers and especially whoever is in charge of them are complete and utter idiots.

[Deleted]

Yes. People in my raid (half-jokingly) think I'm a tunnel lord because I never switch off the boss. I'm excited to play a spec that doesn't have 7 target debuffs so I can prove them wrong.

Honestly, I think the new Sub might be simpler than Assassination too. For a long time, people said "people play Ass on progression because it's the simpler spec, Sub is hard to do optimally".

Well... Assassination now has to manage 4 de-synced CDs, 3-4 debuffs, Envenom uptime, and potentially EP clipping.

Having played the new Sub, it's much simpler. Blades and Vanish line up naturally every ~1:30-1:40. Symbols is 0:30, so it lines up every 3rd, and Dance has charges and can just be held for whenever. And the basic rotation is a very simple 3-button Backstab/SS NB Evisc.

No complex relic management either, since nothing there affects the CDs of anything.

Pretty sure anyone still saying "Sub is more complicated than Ass" in 7.2.5 is behind the times.

In terms of average dps there is no difference between alacrity and TB. If you aim for 100% ranks you should play TB and hope for one PS per TB :-)

[Msi]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=18

I dont like the new rotation with TB tbh, I am pretty sure that I am doing something wrong.

My Frond trinket did amazing dmg

[Won7on]

But no, those dimwits thought it was better to increase our dependency on RNG and give us yet another completely out of syn debuff to track.

I really have no idea what logic they used to come up with the 25 sec CD. There's literally nothing in the toolkit, with any combination of gear/relics, that makes giving us a new button on a 25 sec CD make sense.

But really, the steady decline of Assassination all started with the absolute garbage traits they gave us in 7.2. I said as much back in April, in this very thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post45546642

Introducing Sinister Circulation in 7.2 broke everything that was good about the spec. We went from a waiting/bursting playstyle you'd associate with a DoT-based Rogue spec, to something that was intentionally designed to basically be played as "eh, push these buttons whenever".

Or, as Aurellio put it 40+ pages ago:

With Sinister Circulation my my rotation changed from smooth as fuck to clunky as shit.

For all the faults it had, I miss 7.1.5 Assassination, and it's not just rose-tinted glasses. The spec had better openers (with 9 second Shoulder buff), CDs that lined up, less RNG (PB mattered way less and NBF wasn't used in favour of CoF + DoS), and its weaknesses of being the worst target-swapping and AoE spec in the game actually had a trade-off - massive Single Target, in a raid that early on had a lot of Single Target DPS checks (Krosus, Augur, Elisande).

- - - Updated - - -

In terms of average dps there is no difference between alacrity and TB. If you aim for 100% ranks you should play TB and hope for one PS per TB :-)

On a simmed 6 min fight? Because, if we're talking about ranks, I assume you mean farm, and TB >>>> Alacrity on short farm fights. One is a burst CD, the other is... the opposite of a burst CD.

On progression I'm unlikely to run Assa unless the ST improves, because even if Sub is equal to it (it's currently 50-80k higher, but we'll see), the ability to quickly switch to priority targets is a huge bonus.

[Deleted]

with baseline itemlevel (all items on same ilvl 920-930-940-955, except legendaries 970)

The best Items in my current simulations are

Head	T19	NH
Neck	Mastery/Versa	MoS
Shoulders	T20	ToS
Back	T19	NH
Chest	T20	ToS
Wrist	Legendary	RNG
Hands	T20	ToS
Waist	Mastery/Crit	Upper Kara
Legs	T20	ToS
Feet	Legendary (dustwalker)	RNG
Finger A	Crit/Mastery	Arcway
Finger B	Mastery/Versa	VH
Trinket A	Specter of Betrayal	ToS
Trinket B	Engine of Eradication	ToS
Relic A	Master Alchemist
Relic B	Master Alchemist
Relic C	Master Alchemist

Trinkets are not final

The new legendary ring (in combination with DS) sims currently 40 to 60k dps lower than boots.

Best DPS results with spec: 1211111 (1211121 is only 2.5 to 5k dps behind)

Vendetta usage on CD / no delay

Stat weights coming soon

- - - Updated - - -

I simmed a few assa-rogues I picked up from wowprogress (ilvls between 910 to 920)

For all rogues I played around with:

-MP is still better than EP (all rogues have over 150% mastery, EP can be better if mastery is lower than that)

-Subterfuge still sims way higher than nightstalker

-TB is on par with alacrity (only a few k dps difference towards TB)

-Mantle/Bracers combo is already in current T19 equip the strongest

Ok so i looked a bit closer into this...

On the one side i take your gear combination

On my side i take:

Arcway Mastery / Crit instead of T19
T20 Cloak instead of T19
Leg Shoulders instead of T20
Eye of Azshara Vers / Mastery Boots instead of Leg Boots
3x Master Assassin relics instead of 3x Master Alchemist relics

BUT! I have to say this is with already a bit further into the content. I doubt there are too many rogues out there with high rolled T19 cloak + Head. Assuming the average rogue has both in 905 or 910, it depends on how much m+ you´re willing to do. I personally will spam M+, especially Arcway for the Head and EoA for the boots. Geting them in 910 + proccs, so i guess 920 or 930 should be "easy" possible, shouldn´t be toooo much of a problem.

The other thing is, i switch 15% DP dmg (from 20% to 35%) for the 100% crit buff when it comes to the legendary + relics combo.
I personally think (feelcraft yo) the 100% crit buff from shoulders is better than 12,5% more (since we already have an extra 20%) DP dmg + T19 2piece (with possible low stats). I just looked into my logs from yesterday and my DP always was around 18% to 21% dmg. So if you take 21% DP dmg an add 12.5% on top of this, this would boost your DP dmg from 21% to 23.625%, so 2.625% gain. Then add the 2% from T19 2-set on top of that, that´s 4.625% dmg. Not too bad, but I think, no I´m pretty sure, shoulders and higher rolled items (assuming that you get high rolled items from M+ instad of the low T19 set items) are ahead of those 4,625% dmg.

If you use it my way, your Vendetta is down to 1min 8 seconds cooldown, which should almost perfectly line up with every 2nd KB + TB combo and every 2nd Vendetta lines up with Vanish by just 16s delay (assuming the best case and using Vendetta right on CD).

And yes i know, the T20 cloak has shit stats (crit/haste) when you could take a mastery/vers cloak from the raid. But also leg shoulders (Mastery Haste) + EoA boots (Vers Mastery or Mastery Crit whichever you can get) have better stats than T20 shoulders (Mastery Vers) and Leg Boots (Haste Mastery). So i used an excel calculation in combination with my current (7.2 though) pawn string and it turned out its 77674 vs 78162 in favor of Leg Boots + T20 shoulders. So it´s absolutely even imho.

If i made a mistake, feel free to correct me ;-)

PS: It´s far easier to farm Arcway (Head), Eye of Azshara (Boots), Black Rook Hold (Vendetta blood relic) and Vault of the Wardens (Vendetta iron + shadow relics), than Cathedral + Lower Kara for Master Alchemist relics ^^

[Deleted]

Im so confused, I really wanna make assa work bt the rotation just feels bad. TB is a cool Button to Presse I have to say, but its also a really arkward Button because of the shot 25 sec CD. Between Dmg windows/keeping bleeds up etc when do you really pool? If I gonna use TB on CD (witch make Sense tho) I have to pool but then Im holding of the CD itself, if I dont pool I get 1 Env in at worst Case ... I miss my Assa but I just have no leggi for other specs and dont really enjoy Outlaw or Sub

[Deleted]

[url]https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZLFBzxNaHwDY8jM7#fight=5&type=damage

I dont like the new rotation with TB tbh, I am pretty sure that I am doing something wrong.

My Frond trinket did amazing dmg

Well, your PB did fair good dmg tho. Topic about NBF has been talked to death already. I'd be so happy to get a high rolled mastery stick to get rid of that shitty inconsistent bullshit.

I doubt you can really mess up your rotation since you just have two possibilities. You either hold back TB for KB or you pop TB whenever its off cooldown. I have tested the latter option last night. I used TB on CD also using it as cp fillier for 4-5 finishers. I didnt hold it back for KB. My dps in general was higher than pre patch especially on longer fights it seemed to be pretty consistent. On short fights it was still the same shit as before, pray to RNGESUS, pray even more to RNGESUS that PB procs when you have vendetta up and tb. I had burst dps over 4 millions at Botanist when pb procced in the opening. Logs are now even more inconsistent due to buffed pb procs.

What i really have to test is to sync KB with TB. But i already realized it wouldnt have worked in many situations due to mechanics. So i am not really sure about that anymore and would love to see any log rogues syncing it. To sum up, it felt pretty much okay to me, didnt feel clunky if you just use TB on CD. I had a dps increase. You now have to pay more attention on different skills and you will have to make your decisions dependent on different boss mechanics and situations. A pity you wont see "good playing" rogues in logs, since those will still be dominated by rogues who just play basic shit getting proccs in the right timing.

[Deleted]

That is my main problem: play kinda bad with good pb procs = god tier dmg / play perfect with RNGJESUS pissig on your head (none to low pb procs) = middle of the Meters if even this ...

[Msi]

Well, your PB did fair good dmg tho. Topic about NBF has been talked to death already. I'd be so happy to get a high rolled mastery stick to get rid of that shitty inconsistent bullshit.

I doubt you can really mess up your rotation since you just have two possibilities. You either hold back TB for KB or you pop TB whenever its off cooldown. I have tested the latter option last night. I used TB on CD also using it as cp fillier for 4-5 finishers. I didnt hold it back for KB. My dps in general was higher than pre patch especially on longer fights it seemed to be pretty consistent. On short fights it was still the same shit as before, pray to RNGESUS, pray even more to RNGESUS that PB procs when you have vendetta up and tb. I had burst dps over 4 millions at Botanist when pb procced in the opening. Logs are now even more inconsistent due to buffed pb procs.

What i really have to test is to sync KB with TB. But i already realized it wouldnt have worked in many situations due to mechanics. So i am not really sure about that anymore and would love to see any log rogues syncing it. To sum up, it felt pretty much okay to me, didnt feel clunky if you just use TB on CD. I had a dps increase. You now have to pay more attention on different skills and you will have to make your decisions dependent on different boss mechanics and situations. A pity you wont see "good playing" rogues in logs, since those will still be dominated by rogues who just play basic shit getting proccs in the right timing.

This was a mix between holding TB for KB when there was like 10 sec left and using TB as soon as its of CD.

[nocturnus]

I really have no idea what logic they used to come up with the 25 sec CD. There's literally nothing in the toolkit, with any combination of gear/relics, that makes giving us a new button on a 25 sec CD make sense.

We shouldn't even be surprised you know that. Developers that think it's okay for pets to passively to 80% of your total damage are obviously retarded (have a loot at those BM logs).

They should fire everyone on the class dev team and hire the class dev team that's on FFXIV - They manage class balance and smooth, logical rotations just fine.

Anyway, apparently it's best to use everything on cooldown now. In other words, they turned us into ret whack-a-mole palas.

Awesome.

[glowpipe]

We shouldn't even be surprised you know that. Developers that think it's okay for pets to passively to 80% of your total damage are obviously retarded (have a loot at those BM logs).

They should fire everyone on the class dev team and hire the class dev team that's on FFXIV - They manage class balance and smooth, logical rotations just fine.

Anyway, apparently it's best to use everything on cooldown now. In other words, they turned us into ret whack-a-mole palas.

Awesome.

Smooth logical rotations ? are you high ? Most classes in that game have over 20 to 30 abilities in the OPENER alone. The rotation in ffxiv is a shitfest compared to wow. Also, the dps balancing in that game is totaly wack. And it aint balanced one bit. Monks being miles ahead of other dps classes

[Deleted]

I dont get it why so many are angry about "not smooth" cds?

Whats the problem with that? If blizzard is intentional designing cooldowns which are not lining up they give us the choice ( which means skill to play the class , obviously ) what to use when.
When all CDs would lining up its just a no braining spec any retard could play, and realy booring.

[nocturnus]

Smooth logical rotations ? are you high ? Most classes in that game have over 20 to 30 abilities in the OPENER alone. The rotation in ffxiv is a shitfest compared to wow. Also, the dps balancing in that game is totaly wack. And it aint balanced one bit. Monks being miles ahead of other dps classes

Mate, first of all, calm down, no reason to get all emotional. Secondly, get your facts straight; machinist is the top ranking dps job while monk sits comfortably at the 4th or 5th position. But regardless, the differences are extremely small and easily overruled by skill.

20-30 skills in an opener made me giggle though ^^

For future reference: don't talk about stuff you do not understand.

Since this is off-topic, I won't be saying anything about it anymore.

[Deleted]

This was a mix between holding TB for KB when there was like 10 sec left and using TB as soon as its of CD.

I found a few logs with rogues syncing evey TB at ~8 seconds of KB and it looks like it is a def a dps gain. But those two bosses were Krosus and Trilliax, which are more or less pretty straigt forward.