Who leads the trolls?

[Mehrunes]

Says the guy with a troll for his avatar while complaining about Vol'jin's death, lol!

Your entire reply to a perfectly valid point about Vol'jin's character not being guaranteed greatness just because he is warchief rellies on "Alliance fanwank" and "cringy". It is commonplace when people have nothing better to reply with or when they get overly emotional. But hey, looking at your avatar I can understand why you're so emotionally distraught.

This remark would have more weight to it if you weren't regurgitating straw (you know, starting with the previous sentence of this paragraph, because @Zulkhan said jack shit about greatness; if you can't spot the difference between "development" and "greatness", buy new eyes or pull the straw out of your current ones) all over the thread whenever you've got no sensible reply to a point that's contrary to yours. Just saying. I have to go out right now, will get through the rest of your nonsense after I come back.

It has been ten months since this went down and you're still not giving in with the whine about Vol'jin. Give it a break already.

OK, gonna indulge a bit more. Says the person constantly whining about events revolving around Sylvanas that are even older than this. Even better, whining that includes the quality of the story. Like, for example, how there was supposedly no quality at all because Forsaken joined the Horde (in which you cherrypick the reasons for that alliance down to the one that's convenient to said whining of yours). It's been almost 13 years, give it a break already


EDIT: Since I'm back, gonna cover the rest of your nonsense.

A deus ex ending is the most unimaginative type of ending there can be. There is no comparison to this injustice that Arthas' amazing story arc was given.

Way to ignore the other aspects surrounding his death like, I dunno, the closure that Zulkhan mentioned, just so you could cherry-pick the circumstances of his killing blow alone.

Apparently every comment and opinion about anything is automatically negated by an unintelligent comment such as yours. Once again, someone being given the title of warchief doesn't mean he/she can't be useless and recieve a similar end. It has got nothing to do with the Alliance, even though the same applies to the Alliance and their leaders. It is simple logic.

There's a difference between being useless in-story because the character is simply bad at their job and between being useless from the perspective of commentary on the story, because the character receives no development. Character development is the cornerstone of a character's story. And characters' stories are the cornerstone of the overall story because a story should be first and foremost character-driven. And in case of Vol'jin there wasn't the barest character development. The fact that you're pretending to be some guru of good storytelling when faced with no character development and non-character-driven story is outright laughable.

Oh, so my post told you that I didn't read it? Because I did and still, Vol'jin has got nothing on the character I've compared him with in terms of the battles they've led, conflicts they've concluded and armies they've helmed.

Look at all of the times he focused on your comparison of Vol'jin and Varian. Wait... Now, if one wasn't busy choking on straw, they'd perhaps have noticed that the point of contention was you calling Vol'jin to not be a military leader and someone bad at combat in general. Which, you know, is abject horseshit. So you either didn't read Shadows of the Horde, you read it but couldn't understand it for shit for some reason, or you were too busy playing with straw while reading it to actually register it in your memory.

Warchief or not, he is still a character that can end up being useless. Being warchief, once again, doesn't guarantee being succesful or having a meaningful reign. I suggest you come to terms with it because complaining about it on the internet will not bring him back as a succesful warchief.

Meaningful reign. Meaningful story. Spot the difference.

People know better than to interfere with overly attached people that repeat the same Blizzard rant all over again because things don't go their way in an imaginary universe. Seems like I should've known better too. How dare someone post an opinion different to the opinion of the vocal minority within the fanbase that repeats the same rant a thousand times over.

Yes, because there's no way people could just voice that opinion without interacting with the "rabid Troll fanboy" that is Zulkhan /s And if you dropped the victim complex, you'd have noticed that: 1) no one prevents you from voicing your opinions, 2) people aren't criticizing your opinions because of you being in the silent majority but because you're constantly peddling headcanon and some weird-ass nonsense like universal values or total misrepresentation of writing quality. Oh, and 3) the total irony of you, a person repeating the same trite lies about "muh Sylvanas" that have been voiced by the Sylvanas Salt Squad for a decade over and over and over again, complaining about a vocal minority ranting about anything.

Someone must be fucking insane to say horseshit of this caliber.

Dun dun dunnnn.

Besides, if you want to argue on how a certain character's death is well put and handled within the story than you shouldn't focus on how shiny or cool-looking it was but if the death in question served any purpose, for the character that died and the characters that live. Because, well, Vol'jin's death offered nothing to either.

3complicated7me Which is evidenced by them not even attempting to board the straw train to dismiss it somehow and instead just outright ignoring this bit.

It reminds me of when I got reeeeeally mad at people that don't like Sylvanas, despite repeating a billion of times by eons that I don't like her myself.

The best part is that you voiced that very sentiment in that threat prior to that poster's "contribution".

It seems like no one's allowed to argue against shit logic.

Hururur how dare someone post an opinion different to the opinion of the vocal minority within the fanbase that repeats the same rant a thousand times over durrrr.

Careful, your Alliance fanwank is showing. And I really hope is that, otherwise nothing else remains to justify cringy posts of such caliber.

Well, there's always Blizzard sycophancy.

At this point I wonder if yours is a matter of lacking expectations or rather lacking of basic standards.

See, it all fits together.

[Syegfryed]

what? these things were wrote in warcraft3 manual, lol.
and he was a demigod that was living with nelf helping them. a demigod that before could stand against fucking archimonde and mannoroth forces with a bunch of walking tree, then he die by simply orcs with a bit of blood. and this only reading the warcraft3 manual.

you ask for a stupid death, i give you a stupid death. blizz presented cenarius as a fundamental demigod for nelfs culture. he teach them in druidism, fought with them in wota and then protected them with the sentinels when malf go sleeping mode. still he died in a single mission.

you need to understand this, "fighting in wota" "teach then druidism", and etc is lore made AFTER war3 nor prior, the only thing who was made to war 3 it h was a powerfull demigod patron of the elves

He could not stand against archimonde, he could stand against Manoroth, and Manoroth get killed by Grom alone, with no Demon blood power,you rly think Cenarius have the balls to stop the entire warsong clan empowered by the blood? RLY?

[omeomorfismo]

you need to understand this, "fighting in wota" "teach then druidism", and etc is lore made AFTER war3 nor prior, the only thing who was made to war 3 it h was a powerfull demigod patron of the elves

He could not stand against archimonde, he could stand against Manoroth, and Manoroth get killed by Grom alone, with no Demon blood power,you rly think Cenarius have the balls to stop the entire warsong clan empowered by the blood? RLY?

dude, wake up. type "warcraft 3 manual" on google, open one of the pdf links that will appears, go on the nelf section, read.
all i wrote comes from the manual, not the following novelization

[procne]

Only one true leader for all trolls everywhere!

Make Zandalari great again!

Zandalari. First!

[Syegfryed]

dude, wake up. type "warcraft 3 manual" on google, open one of the pdf links that will appears, go on the nelf section, read.
all i wrote comes from the manual, not the following novelization

So the warcraft manual tells Cenarius fight against the legion in first invasion etc and etc? even if so, Get killed by a clan empowered by demon blood is not a stupid death

[omeomorfismo]

So the warcraft manual tells Cenarius fight against the legion in first invasion etc and etc? even if so, Get killed by a clan empowered by demon blood is not a stupid death

sure, there is the entire part of nelf history before the units descriptions. with elune, well, highborne druids and sisterhood, wota, illidan betrayal, long vigil...
btw cenarius its ok (even if before he can stand against mannoroth, archimonde and their demonic troops only with the help of some walking tree) but vol'jin killed by a swarm of such demons is a stupid? lol?

[TriHard]

Honestly, until they confirm that Vol'jin's story is over, I don't think we'll see a new leader unless Rokhan steps up.

[Al Gorefiend]

It doesn't matter anymore. Blizzard wants Orcs and Trolls written out of Horde story progression. The players have spoken, there are more people playing blood elf on the Horde than all the other races combined. Blizzard listened, they are aware people will never give a shit about the uglies. They made an Elf leader, they gave Elf their own hero class, they made Elf zones, the Horde is to be the Elf faction

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It doesn't matter anymore. Blizzard wants Orcs and Trolls written out of Horde story progression. The players have spoken, there are more people playing blood elf on the Horde than all the other races combined. Blizzard listened, they are aware people will never give a shit about the uglies. They made an Elf leader, they gave Elf their own hero class, they made Elf zones, the Horde is to be the Elf faction

Trolls are proto elves!

- - - Updated - - -

Rly dont see why ppl push Rokhan in a leader position.
He is a trooper in the army, did he ever command a group into battle? Had a spiritual position that gave him respect from other Trolls? I did not see any of this sofar.

Most of the time he was either a spy on a frontline or was sending us the heroes to look into matters.

Next to that i think the bloodline matters in Troll culture since Vol'jin took over from Sen'jin in WC3.
Ofc this would mean blizzard spending alot of lore building around Vol'jin kids since they forgot building them up since Vanilla time. (Small update in Cata if i am correct)

Hey Rokhan was sent by Vol'jin himself to help organize and lead our garrisons in Draenor.
He trained under US, the greatest champions in the history of the Horde!
Surely he's ready to lead a mere faction.

[Syegfryed]

It doesn't matter anymore. Blizzard wants Orcs and Trolls written out of Horde story progression. The players have spoken, there are more people playing blood elf on the Horde than all the other races combined. Blizzard listened, they are aware people will never give a shit about the uglies. They made an Elf leader, they gave Elf their own hero class, they made Elf zones, the Horde is to be the Elf faction

this is fucking sad, and made em stop playing

this horde barely remember de war3 horde

[Deleted]

Hey Rokhan was sent by Vol'jin himself to help organize and lead our garrisons in Draenor.
He trained under US, the greatest champions in the history of the Horde!
Surely he's ready to lead a mere faction.

Is this a joke? he was standing on a rcok in the garrison the whole exp. pack only sending us on missions.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Is this a joke? he was standing on a rcok in the garrison the whole exp. pack only sending us on missions.

Standing around sending us on missions? Sounds like faction leader material to me!

[Deleted]

Standing around sending us on missions? Sounds like faction leader material to me!

Then you can make alot of trolls leader, we got all over the world NPC trolls sending us on missions more important missions aswell then those on Draenor.

[Al Gorefiend]

this is fucking sad, and made em stop playing

this horde barely remember de war3 horde

Da war3 horde are made up of the least played races on the horde. If people liked orcs and trolls they'd be rolling them. Just ran a census on my realm and blood elf is 44% of all players on the horde. On Moon Guard they were 58% of all Horde players.

If you took all the people who's mains are an orc, Tauren, troll and goblin and combined them, they would be equal or below BE player pop.

Blizzard goes to lore forums. They know this sub forum can't control their boners whenever Sylvanas or Lor'themar do something interesting and moan or complain when it's Thrall or Vol'jin. Purge of Dalaran thread is still the highest posted thread count on this sub.

they killed off vol'jin and replaced it with undead thong Elf because people only want to ever care about the elves in WoW, or humans.

[Koryn123]

Da war3 horde are made up of the least played races on the horde. If people liked orcs and trolls they'd be rolling them. Just ran a census on my realm and blood elf is 44% of all players on the horde. On Moon Guard they were 58% of all Horde players.

If you took all the people who's mains are an orc, Tauren, troll and goblin and combined them, they would be equal or below BE player pop.

Blizzard goes to lore forums. They know this sub forum can't control their boners whenever Sylvanas or Lor'themar do something interesting and moan or complain when it's Thrall or Vol'jin. Purge of Dalaran thread is still the highest posted thread count on this sub.

they killed off vol'jin and replaced it with undead thong Elf because people only want to ever care about the elves in WoW, or humans.

That was bound to happen after they absolutely murdered the orcs' character making Thrall the biggest disappointment WoW's ever had and making the orcs all out to be evil, then after SoO being like "oh, whoops, uh... #NotAllOrcs...?" Tauren were neat until they killed Cairne and replaced him with less-cool and also whiny Cairne 2.0. And they never developed any Darkspear except Vol'jin, so killing him killed the Troll soul just like Thrall. A shame. Now that they don't have Vol'jin anymore, they should find some new purpose, go to Revantusk Village and take over Jintha'Alor as their new big city, and solidify the Horde's position in the Lordaeron continent, in case Khaz Modan gets up to any funny business (and there will definitely be conflict with the Forsaken taking all of Arathi). That is, if Blizzard ever gets off their whole "every single threat is a world-ending threat that every single person on Azeroth must face together because that never gets old" thing. Bring the story back home and make it about war about VERY SPECIFIC ISSUES, not simply "rawr, me hate humans" and "damn those greenskins" while the rest of the orcs and humans friends are like "uh...okay, I guess I'll help...?" Forsaken-held Arathi vs. Dwarf-held Khaz Modan, please. Spark that conflict with the Forsaken getting brave and attacking Aerie Peak, forcing the Wildhammers out, so they go to Ironforge looking for help, and then Ironforge sends a force to retake Grim Batol, and they form a united dwarven kingdom of the Dark Iron lands (dunno if those are fully incorporated into it yet), Bronzebeard lands, and Wildhammer lands. And the elves at Quel'danil can return to Quel'thalas unharmed at Lor'themar's begging of Sylvanas, because we need more level-headed high elves. Vereesa and the rest of her crazy Silver Covenant elves need to be the exception, not the rule.

[Arrashi]

Its difficult for people not to dislike "savage" races of the horde after the massive clusterfuck of SoO that undermined literally all build-up horde had since inception of warcraft.

I mean orcs are actual joke race. And not "silly" joke race like gnomes or goblines. Their entire writing is sad joke, and WoD probably spoiled the race to few who still liked them after MoP.

Trolls lack any personality and after being forced into this weird rebelion scenario they lack numbers as well. They never build-up on their unique characteristic.

Tauren...well, they say that their leader haunts the night. He will appear behind you in the dead of the night and asks "whats my name ?". If you respond with your name he will take it and you will vanish. No but seriously, playable tauren have so little lore in past vanilla that its laughable.

Then you have gobbos, a race whos lore feels like commertial breaks.

Blizz needs to get their shit together, and decide what they really want.

[Fantasyguru]

Honesty, I do not know the answer to that!

7th post out of 10. (Rolls eyes)

[Ramz]

Rly dont see why ppl push Rokhan in a leader position.
He is a trooper in the army, did he ever command a group into battle? Had a spiritual position that gave him respect from other Trolls? I did not see any of this sofar.

exactly, Rokhan was more working on the field and less about managing stuff and leading people. The only leader that makes senese to me after Vol'Jin is out is Vanira. But there is also not any backstory about her. She was just Vol'Jin's right hand she was there at Zalazane's Fall event, and she appears at the beggining quests.

Next to that i think the bloodline matters in Troll culture since Vol'jin took over from Sen'jin in WC3.
Ofc this would mean blizzard spending alot of lore building around Vol'jin kids since they forgot building them up since Vanilla time. (Small update in Cata if i am correct)

It would be very anticlimatic, Vol'Jin suffered for years in terms of not being used in general lore development, and when they finally gave him some edge they killed him, and now they're meant to pull his son that has literally zero story about him and start over again? Why we should care about him? I think the rational reaction would be "Who hell are you, a and where the hell have you've been"?

I believe the troll development is done, and so is the Horde's aswell. They didn't listen to feedback and made scandalous butchering on their own lore just for the sake of wrting Vol'Jin off, and to this day I don't see the frigging point of it. What for they did it? What they wanted to achive by killing the last relevant troll hero and before he did anything of essence during his time as Warchief while having no ready replacement. Trolls needed more heroes not less!

And that dying to fel infection seemed really poor excuse when plenty of other people were fighting with demons and yet there was no other example of dying to beinc cut by demon. Hell in Outland's Shadowmoon you were diving to pool of fel to get fel reaver part, and there was no contamination on you or anything xD

Soon two years will pass and I'm still grossed out by the pre-Legion event.

[Ruts]

The Internet leads the trolls