Do you want 10 man raid back?

[Myztikrice]

15 man raids imo

[Bonkura]

10 man mythic raiding is the only thing that could get me to start playing the game again.

[Ealyssa]

I and thousands of others DO NOT CARE about 10 v. 20 balancing

Sure, you and your thousands other friends are so important that blizzard, a company who's main goal is making money, deemed you irrelevant.

Feels good to be alone.

[Rixarius]

Yes. Raiding with 10 people was the most fun I ever had raiding. The group was always so tight knit, and everyone in the group could contribute to the discussions on progression. 20 man and up always feels like there are too many conflicting personalities and conflicting interests.

[Alvito]

Did you actually play TBC or did you just read up about it on the internet? Because really the raid sizes were never a problem back then.
You had 2 raids that were 10 man, being Karazhan and Zul'aman and both of those raids weren't of enough importance to clear every week.
With that said, in the 10 guilds I've been in in TBC, I've never seen a guild struggle with their roster sizes for raids.

Also your argument for why wotlk's system was bad is pretty weak. Like I said Blizzard currently tries to balance for 10 difficulties if we include balancing for different roster size scalings. (25lfr, 14n, 19n, 24n, 30n, 14hc, 19hc, 24hc , 30hc, 20m) And balancing for 10 different scenarios is just an idiotic amount of extra work that wasn't ever needed. Even if you would take Ulduar as an example, it only had 4 difficulties: 10 man normal, 25 man normal, 10 man hardmode boss, 25 man hardmode boss. It's simple and people loved it back then, and probably still would now.
Because honestly.. who actually enjoys clearing 4 raids on 3-4 difficulties each week? I surely don't and I wish it wasn't necessary either.. but if Blizzard makes it so that you have to clear all raids in order to increase your chances at legendaries, you're kinda forced to follow their bullshit route if you want to stay relevant at all times. (Coz really, the people who got 11-17 legendaries on 1 character did not get those from just doing emissaries and dungeons)

Well Kara was real important because you had to do it to get into anything else. Established raids came out of vanilla with a group of 40 they then had to cut to 10 even if they split into 2 or 3 10 mans due to tank and heal issues 10 were just shit out of luck. Then each group needed to finish Kara and jump back to 25, sorry 5 extra people we don't need you now. So raids were constantly go back for some simple things like a badge run or more importantly to get alt/subs/new players attuned to Mags/Gruuls, so they could then take them into TK and SSC so they could then do Hyjal and finally BT. Yes you could skip ZA, but for many people it had bis gear even with it being a lower item lvl the t6. If you never saw a guild struggle with roster issues in BC you didn't pay attention or you didn't raid. Things eased up a bit once attunements and keys were no longer required, but by then Wrath was just around the corner.

Wraths system as you point out was all over the place. We started it with 10 and 25 man, with 10 being much easier. As we keep moving forward we start getting alternate difficulties because nothing was exactly what they wanted it to be. You are also assuming that for some reason I am supporting doing 4 identical raids a week, which I am not and didn't say. Luckily you don't need 11 to 17 legendaries unless you have some dog shit luck and never got the bis ones. If for some reason you still don't have an old one you want you can fish for it with nethershard and bump your chances to get what you want significantly. Again legendary issues only muddy the water and have nothing to do with roster size issues.

[Shakou]

Because honestly.. who actually enjoys clearing 4 raids on 3-4 difficulties each week? I surely don't and I wish it wasn't necessary either.. but if Blizzard makes it so that you have to clear all raids in order to increase your chances at legendaries, you're kinda forced to follow their bullshit route if you want to stay relevant at all times. (Coz really, the people who got 11-17 legendaries on 1 character did not get those from just doing emissaries and dungeons)

Actually, I have 12 legendaries on my main and I only got 3 of them from a raid boss. I have 6 110's altogether (only 1 of which isn't over 905 I lvl and 52+ traits), the vast majority of my legendary items have come from emissaries. 2nd place is actually rare spawn mobs. I have 31 legendaries altogether. I have not raided regularly on my alts at all.

However, most of the leggos I have on my main I got since 7.2 launched, and I have been clearing most of all available raiding content somewhat regularly and I'm sure that helped, but there are all kinds of other activities you can do to increase your bad luck protection (literally anything).

[Deleted]

I don't want it for mythic progression but I think having a small raid (trial of valour, trial of the crusader) tuned for 10man heroic difficulty could be cool.

[Detritivores]

Sure, you and your thousands other friends are so important that blizzard, a company who's main goal is making money, deemed you irrelevant.

Feels good to be alone.

Yes, that calculus has worked out so well for Blizzard that they stopped releasing sub numbers. I can only assume that's because their game is doing super-amazing! This is really my point though. Yes, blizz deemed me and many others irrelevant. It's led to the rapid decline of their game.

[Antiderivative]

getting 10 people together is literally half as much effort as getting 20
so yeah

especially if you got a core of friends of like 8 you want to play with, then you only need 2 more people as opposed to 12

Recruiting is easy for flex. Plus, when was the last time guilds poached for a 10 man raid? And, when was the last time a 10 guild man guild "recruited" someone to sit on the bench in case one of your core members ran late or did not show up?

I don't miss it at all. I prefer flex. The raiding system is more inclusive as ever.

If you want to run 20 mythics and be leading edge, then so be it. Don't howl about you have 8 friends who want to progressively lead a raid a team. You are a dime a dozen.

[Dangg]

Yes, the pros of having only one fixed size caters only to a tiny demography - people going for world first.
I doubt that the majority of raiders care much about if there is a bit of an imbalance.

[Roar-Powah]

I would love 10 man raids back, the most fun i had was in 10 man raids. I felt closer to people in a 10 man than what i do in a 20man. Issue is with 10 man is that you couldn't have 1 weak link in the group until you could carry.

[HitRefresh]

I'd take 5 man raids over this Mythic+ bullshit.

[Deleted]

Sure, you and your thousands other friends are so important that blizzard, a company who's main goal is making money, deemed you irrelevant.

LOL seriously? @Detritivores is right as hell, and your only counter argument is pointing making money with WOW, that has absolutely nothing to do with 20/10/15/(insert whatever number you want) size of the mythic raiding?.

[TOM_RUS]

Yes. It was perfect raid size. Blizzard ruined so many guilds with 10->20 man change. It was best time in wow history.

[Phaqfu]

I would like 15 man to be honest.

[Deleted]

Nope, 20man are perfect to me.

[Krayik]

Would rather have 15. Ten feels too small for any flexibility for encounter design, 25 feels like too many cats to herd. Fifteen I feel would be perfect as there is room for a close and semi-intimate group without having to take on extra baggage of potentially mediocre players to fill slots.

[Teri]

I would like ALL raids to just be 1 size again, 20 man is fine.

[Elim Garak]

I would like ALL raids to just be 1 size again, 20 man is fine.

Raids never were 1 size

[Thelxi]

I've always thought 15 is the magical number.