Are ghosts real?

[Hctaz]

Scientists propose explanations for things that they can't detect/haven't yet detected all the time. Dark matter/energy is an example. They saw something behaving in a way outside of their predictions, so they come up with (and test) hypotheses for why. Problem with this paranormal crap is that when the behavior is "grandma saw something spooky" the simplest explanation to propose is "grandma is a human and humans have notoriously fallible senses."

So no. It's not silly to say there's no such thing as ghosts.

Yeah I can get behind this. I've had plenty of "supernatural" experiences myself and I don't know what caused them. I don't have a history of auditory or visual hallucinations and these things would happen very infrequently enough but always happen more in what I called "sessions" like there was SOMETHING that was abnormal going on. There are plenty of things that are incredibly difficult to observe. When you feel a presence there besides you, maybe it is something there that we can't see or interact with but gives off the same feeling as a person would. Maybe it's some weird time and space glitch or alternative universes coming close together or something weird like that shit. Something so scientifically abstract that we just don't know what it is yet.

[Shadowferal]

Lol. Well...I am still curious what his/her proof would be. But you do make a good point.

I had this kind of conversation before. And even if God..(nondenominationally speaking) came down and decided to rewrite certain aspects of reality, the response was always "Science will figure it out." Any possibility of providing proof/evidence of supernature never mattered. It was mind-bogglingly close-minded. And in my opinion, dangerous.

I'm reminded of a quote from Neils Bohr during one of those famous debates with Einstein: "You are not thinking. You are merely being logical."
It's sad that these days a lot of people never seem to realize that there is a difference between logic and the ability to think.

[Ghostpanther]

Like with alien sightings everything on ghosts has been some story or blurry picture or blurry video or fake video, etc. Never any real hard evidence you know?

Not all videos and pictures have been blurry, but photos/videos can be so easily manipulated with editing software, I would not accept that as proof. What if you had a clear experience with a ghost personally? Would you do like Shadowferal said and explain it away as not what you felt or saw? And even if you answer yes, that is not a bad answer. Because even such experiences as that can sometimes ( most ) be explained logically. I guess my point is, there may never be any 100% proof. We each have to decide where it cross the line from a logical explanation to the unknown or believable.

- - - Updated - - -

I had this kind of conversation before. And even if God..(nondenominationally speaking) came down and decided to rewrite certain aspects of reality, the response was always "Science will figure it out." Any possibility of providing proof/evidence of supernature never mattered. It was mind-bogglingly close-minded. And in my opinion, dangerous.

I'm reminded of a quote from Neils Bohr during one of those famous debates with Einstein: "You are not thinking. You are merely being logical."
It's sad that these days a lot of people never seem to realize that there is a difference between logic and the ability to think.

Excellent points. I esp. like the last sentence.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

[Powerogue]

I have absolutely no reason to think that's the case. We know that with things like dementia that deterioration/damage to the brain directly effects who you are. That doesn't exactly leave room for some magical spirit at the controls.

I had this kind of conversation before. And even if God..(nondenominationally speaking) came down and decided to rewrite certain aspects of reality, the response was always "Science will figure it out." Any possibility of providing proof/evidence of supernature never mattered. It was mind-bogglingly close-minded. And in my opinion, dangerous.

I'm reminded of a quote from Neils Bohr during one of those famous debates with Einstein: "You are not thinking. You are merely being logical."
It's sad that these days a lot of people never seem to realize that there is a difference between logic and the ability to think.

Let me know when you find another process with science's track record in unraveling the mysteries of the universe.

What would it take for the 100% proof?

Hmm, well we could try to weigh dead people to see if some detectable level of mass was lost on expiration, on the assumption that these "souls" have mass. Or wait, people tried that one already.

It hardly even seems worth further analysis. If ghosts were perceivable like people tend to insist they are, being able to see/hear them in some transparent form, there would be billions of them. You wouldn't be able to get anywhere without being in contact with ghosts. Uncomfortably close contact.

[Nuvuk]

If you do then yes, if not then no.

[Irian]

I can't actually say. I lean towards yes, simply due to their extended and multicultural origins that seem to portray them all in a similar fashion. I don't believe for a second we understand everything about our universe and within that huge lack of knowledge may lie an explanation for why things like ghosts exist. I don't necessarily believe they're exactly what we believe them to be but I do believe that people have witnessed what we currently consider to be supernatural spirits.

[jimboa24]

Right... are you aware that is indistinguishable from them not existing in the first place?

And please, do not call it a theory.

No, that isn't indistinguishable from it not existing at all.

Imagine that you exist as a two-dimensional being on a piece of paper, and there is a three-dimensional being fucking with you. When it knows you are alone, it shows itself in the two dimensions that you are able to perceive it in by pressing its finger down on the paper in front of you. Then when you call for help, or try to show your other two-dimensional scientists and friends what you are seeing, he rudely lifts his finger, and they are unable to see or detect him, and conclude that this third dimensional being does not exist since it chose not to reveal itself, and existing as two-dimensional beings, they have no way they can even conceive of (let alone measure) something existing in anything except two dimensions.

What you are assuming is that if we can't see it or detect it, it cannot and does not exist. You really think that our science is really so vastly advanced that we can see, here, touch, smell, or measure everything in existence? You seriously don't think there are other frequencies, wavelengths, dimensions, whatever you want to call them where beings can exist and can be aware of us that we would be clueless about unless they decided to reveal themselves?

[Mihalik]

I can't prove there isn't.

Just because you can't prove they don't exist it doesn't mean they do. It's up to you to prove they do exist for you to believe they exist. Proving the negative trap.

[Errtu]

What would be the mass of such a ghost ?

[Zoibert the Bear]

I saw one once. I am not legally allowed to give any details though.

[Benefitzs]

Nope, there is no life after death unless you count whatever eats your body after you die.

Have you died? How do you know? You can't say that like its an absolute fact. It's just what science is able to explain right now.

[Trassk]

Have you died? How do you know? You can't say that like its an absolute fact. It's just what science is able to explain right now.

And yet to prove there is life after death you need to die first, meaning there is no proof.

[zorkuus]

No, that isn't indistinguishable from it not existing at all.

It is. If we can't detect them then it is because:

a) they exist but we can't detect them
B) they don't exist

Thus indistinguishable.

[Ghostpanther]

Just because you can't prove they don't exist it doesn't mean they do. It's up to you to prove they do exist for you to believe they exist. Proving the negative trap.

True. For yourself. Does not mean however your personal proof, others will accept as true.

- - - Updated - - -

It is. If we can't detect them then it is because:

a) they exist but we can't detect them
B) they don't exist

Thus indistinguishable.

Usually and for the great majority.

- - - Updated - - -

I have absolutely no reason to think that's the case. We know that with things like dementia that deterioration/damage to the brain directly effects who you are. That doesn't exactly leave room for some magical spirit at the controls.



Let me know when you find another process with science's track record in unraveling the mysteries of the universe.



Hmm, well we could try to weigh dead people to see if some detectable level of mass was lost on expiration, on the assumption that these "souls" have mass. Or wait, people tried that one already.

It hardly even seems worth further analysis. If ghosts were perceivable like people tend to insist they are, being able to see/hear them in some transparent form, there would be billions of them. You wouldn't be able to get anywhere without being in contact with ghosts. [I]Uncomfortably close contact.[/I]

Who is to say all people who have died are running around as Ghosts? Some seem to think only a select few seem to not want to accept death and move on. But I do understand your skepticism.

[zorkuus]

True. For yourself. Does not mean however your personal proof, others will accept as true.

That is not proof but a personal experience. Proof is something that can be verified by others.

[Ghostpanther]

That is not proof but a personal experience. Proof is something that can be verified by others.

Oh I agree. My experiences are only good for those who have had similar ones and accept them as true. For those who remain unconvinced, it is no proof at all.

[Pony Soldier]

I really don't know. No one knows. People can believe they are or not but no one actually knows. It's the same with aliens no one actually knows if they are hiding amongst us or working with the government or if they've even visited us. It's all opinion and belief. Although I will say some of the videos I've seen were pretty convincing. I mean of course there's that chance they could be fake but some are just really that convincing that it makes you want to believe they are real.

I just remain open minded about it just like I am with aliens.

[Felnoire]

Simple question, what percentage of dead people become ghosts?

[Deleted]

Alien sightings haven't dropped, they're just laughed off and not taken seriously. Watch the documentary called Unacknowledged.

I'll go watch the full movie.

But the trailer sounds like conspiracy theory nut jobbery to me "They have people embedded in all the major media to change and effect stories, if you tell anyone about this project this bullet has your name on it and it WILL find you"

Or this gem at the end of the trailer:
"The strategy was that FIRST the Russians were the enemy, THEN terrorists WOULD be identified, THEN 3rd world country crazies. The last card is the Alien card. And all of it, is a lie."